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bbs428
01-10-2019, 04:25 PM
All these new builds being posted! Maiden flights on long time builds happening. Wow! Exciting times, eh?

I feel like I'm a bit behind the eight ball here as I've yet to start my own thread. lol. I've been lurking around the forum for awhile as some of you know.
So here goes...

I started to build a series 4 speedster but I didn't get far into the build when I found my current build project, a 1998 Outback. Sold the 4 and as they say - onward and upward!

Disclaimer - I can get a bit wordy and chase rabbits down various holes but I don't mean to put on airs or try to be the smartest rear end in the room. I've been told I can come across that way so if I get to carried away describing stuff, just laugh it off. I'll try to be brief and concise but it usually doesn't work. Also, I know absolutely nothing about building kit planes. :)

A little about me - Retired Navy Chief, Avionics Technician. I live in SW Missouri, close to my friends Mike and Chase - known on the forum as Cubtractor and Skypirate.
I Spent 28 years in San Diego. Previously owned two certified airplanes - a PA-28 Cherokee, and a trauma-hawk. Also have a bunch of time in rented Cessna 172's, Piper Archers and quicksilver ultralights, an MXL-2 and a sprint. I hold a PPL but operate under light sport rules now.

My new to me kit was found in South Carolina. Skypirate knew the guy. It never went on the market. He bought it new and got to page 30 in the build and by April of 98 he quit. Nice guy but good thing he stopped. enough said.
He also had a wrecked series 4 with a so-so 4000 + serial numbered Rotax 912 ul. I bought that as well. It looked good. What could go wrong? :rolleyes:
Anyways, he said the motor had quit in the air (fuel starvation). Hobbs had 247 hours engine and airframe. He seemed excited to sell them as I had cash in hand and thru in a low time metal edge warp dive, 3 blade prop and hub assembly to sweeten the deal. we both bit and the deal was done!
Chase and I trucked it back to Missouri in a snowstorm! Total idiots, lol
Saving $$ always seems to involve a lot of sweat equity. Hopefully my cheap labor hard earned dollars will turn this sorry kit into a nice airplane someday...

I've plagiarized so many of your great ideas and solutions to your builds. I'm thankful your all here, in our Kitfox aviation esprit de corps.

I just turned 60 years old and now wonder what the hell I got myself into! :D

Cheers, Brett

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20 years hanging in a barn - what a dirty bird

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Appropriated the Mrs. duster for swabbing duty by the old swab... :rolleyes:

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Rinsed the inside of the spars with hot water to dissolve the wasp nests. Getting ready to do a though cleaning, a light scotch bright scrub and a complete Alodine coating on order. Need to do that before we go any further.

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The spars cleaned up nice. One nick at the end of the front spar by wingtip. No big deal. Had a bunch of staples to countersink back into the wood. :)

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efwd
01-10-2019, 10:39 PM
Welcome aboard Brett. I thought your disclaimer was describing me. I think now I have good company. :D

rv9ralph
01-10-2019, 10:46 PM
Looks good. Like your QC engineer checking your work.

Ralph

DesertFox4
01-10-2019, 11:17 PM
Best of luck with the build Brett. Every Kitfox kit deserves to be finished and appreciated. Try to coax that SkyPirate guy into visiting this site again once in a while. I know he’s taking an internet break for awhile but we miss him here.
He’s a good resource to have near by.

bbs428
01-21-2019, 12:22 PM
Working away in the garage. Had to commandeer the Mrs. parking spot due to the cold.
I have to get up early now to warm her car before she's off to work though... :p

I installed some floating anchor nuts on the rudder pedals and the instrument panel.
Played around with some carbon fiber wrap that turned out nice. The sides of the center
console are also wrapped. Instrument panel will be as well.
The pedals and handles are polished and painted with three coats of satin clear. I like the look of the
bare metal against the carbon fiber.
Lightened the seat a bit. I'll be welding up some attachments and bolting the seat in. No zip ties.
Brake lines, parking brake, aluminum tubing and AN fittings are from Aircraft Spruce. The lines are
covered in a 3/16 nylon sheath.
Parking brake handle made from a piece of dowel and two sections of an old aluminum fishing rod and epoxied together.
Sanded, contoured and painted a satin black.

Back to work! :)

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bbs428
01-30-2019, 10:04 AM
It's been cold but the fun continues in my heated garage...

Installed a Com. antenna in the tail. Ran the coax to the back of the instrument panel

Started jeweling my firewall. Thanks to those before me who have done this.
I wouldn't have tried but for you. :)
It's not perfect but it looks good from a few feet away.

Fabricated a bracket and wired the ELT. Ran those wires forward as well.

Fabricated a top stringer and aluminum straps. Adjusted it until it looked
good with masking tape, then attached with aluminum straps, Aeropoxy and pop rivets.

Found a nice Scott 3200 tail wheel cheap on Barnstormers. Ordered another mounting
bolt 1/2 inch longer. Needs to be cleaned and repainted... at this point, who cares! More fun! :D

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bbs428
02-01-2019, 03:54 AM
Wired up my pitch trim sender and epoxied the brackets in place.
I knew wire repair school would come in handy some day! Thanks to the USN.
Funny how the training comes back to you when you use the skills again.

Received a package from Tosten mfg. with my 2 new CS-8 joystick grips! Super quality stuff.
More fun! :D


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bbs428
02-11-2019, 10:28 PM
Spent the last few days working on the auto pilot servo installation.
I had to scrap my 1st bracket due to coming up a bit short on my pitch servo's output arm...
not enough throw. **** poor prior planning. :(
So I was hitting up against the servo stops before I ran out of elevator.
I didn't make that mistake again on the roll servo.

Can I leave the bracket in alodine or should it be top coated? Does it even matter?
The pitch servo bracket finish came out a tad mottled so I gave it a zinc chromate topcoat,
a finish that I'm not so fond of. I kinda like the light gold finish on the roll bracket. I spent
more time sanding and cleaning it. I guess it shouldn't mater as long as the bare aluminum is
protected. Going to have to do everything the same way or it's gonna look funktified.
The one inch servo arm extensions came out much darker cause I put them in a small
plastic bag with the Alodine vs. brushing it on. Took the finish much faster.
Learning some new skills. :)

PapuaPilot
02-11-2019, 10:44 PM
Funktified . . . that's new work, but I like it. :)

It is totally OK to leave aluminum finished with alodine. It is a coating the prevents corrosion on aluminum. The gold finish can look very nice, especially if it comes out even.

efwd
02-12-2019, 02:57 PM
Hey Ernie.
thought you may like to know that when you do your rigging of the flapperons it changes things. I had to build a new control link after the first one was found to be short. I like the parts you made. All those parts should remain good but you may find the rod and rod end bearings won't reach after you rig it. Depends on how much thread you start with on the rod end bearings.. Crossing fingers.

bbs428
02-15-2019, 11:57 PM
To get an accurate auto-pilot pitch servo installation I had to get the elevator rigged as
close as possible. Followed the book. Left the roll servo alone until the flaperons can be
rigged.

I had to make many adjustments especially to the pitch servo bracket. I then remade the
pitch servo elevator attachment bracket. First one, I decided was to small and to thin (.035)
but easily bendable. The attachment point height was good. The second one is .07 stock and
more robust. No way I was bending this freehand. I heated up a one inch bolt to a dull red
color and the .07 aluminum bent around it with ease.
Turned out much nicer. Has a good friction fit.

Question - it should have a mechanical bond to the push rod, correct? Aeropoxy and some rivets?

It was a pita but time well spent. :)

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Had a few days of 60 deg weather outside so I took advantage of the heat wave and painted
the lift strut brackets and some other stuff. still had to use a fast hardener. They had to be blasted
as well as the lift struts.
Painted with 2 part white auto urethane.
Good thing, as it's back to 20 deg and freezing rain! :rolleyes:

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Received some new updated parts. Debra's great on the phone. All my stuff arrived safe.
I'm real happy with the quality of parts.

When there's a nice stretch of weather I'll rig the wings. I want to finish as much as I can on the
fuselage before I start working on the quick-build wings when the weather warms up.

With luck I'll be covering and painting this summer!

Back to work! :p

bbs428
02-19-2019, 11:06 PM
Was really satisfying to walk into the garage and see the plane slowly coming together.
I have my coffee and look everything over... and plan the days work. Very enjoyable. :)

After a few days I finally worked out all the bugs with the pitch servo install and the trim
assist. With a few minor modifications, it meets all the conditions of the kit. No interference issues
and there is always tension on the spring.

The pitch servo bracket ended up very strong and light but grew complicated and required many
adjustments to the cutout areas. The assist spring had to be positioned a bit different but the
function and effect is still the same. My pitch servo arm had a conflict with the spring in it's normal
placement.

Since this is a model five I had no lightning holes on the flap weldament on the mixer
assembly. So I drilled two holes one inch apart where the measurements looked to be the best. The lower
hole on the mixer is lower to compensate for the diagonal crossing of the spring. It also provides the
lightest amount of assist. At this setting the elevator is about neutral with the H. Stab. with zero flaps.
The upper hole provides noticeably more assist which seemed a bit to much as the elevator was up
substantially with zero flaps.

I was thankful that I worked on this prior to covering. Would even be more of a pita. :D

This was my first effort...
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And the second...
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And the last.
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Elevator relatively neutral at zero flap.
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airlina
02-20-2019, 03:48 AM
Brett, your project is coming along well. Looks like some nice workmanship and quality control. And you are right , much easier to accomplish these tasks early in the build before cover. I added an autopilot to my Series 5 Outback after the plane had been flying for many years and it reminded me of playing the game "operation" (you have to be of my generation to remember that one) with a lot of contortions and tight quarters. Sounds like you are enjoying the process, which is the proper mindset for homebuilding an airplane. Bruce N199CL

Meyer
02-20-2019, 06:57 AM
Looks great. You are ahead of me so I am taking notes. I also remember the game Operation!!! I am too big for that!

David47
02-20-2019, 11:43 PM
Winding back a little, I've just been looking at your comm. antenna in the fin. Wish I'd done that as I've seen it on another thread (forgotten which). The ability to get great VHF coverage will be a real advantage. I remember many years ago on a flight to Singapore spending some time in the cockpit of a 777-300ER, and with all that wiz bang stuff they had, the VHF radio was still a bit iffy, even for them, and we weren't that far north of Perth (In Australia) which was the area ATC. So even the big guys don't necessarily have great reception. So in short, good thinking and I enjoy your build thread.

Esser
02-21-2019, 01:43 PM
We count on about 200NM max of range for the big guys. If they are lower than FL310 even that gets iffy

bbs428
02-22-2019, 07:51 AM
A lot of work preparing the wings for their rig and attachment to the fuselage and subsequent work. It's time
like these I wish I had just ordered a new kit instead of resurrecting this old, grungy sad sack of a kitfox.
The quality of the kits these days are so much better. I just drool at the pic's of all the new kits. Skystar built
some nice kits, but John, Debra and the kitfox crew are building great kits. The parts they have sent me have
been top notch. Their help and patience with me in this project cannot be stressed enough.

Those of you who do find an older kit as I did... Don't fool yourself. Unless it's pristine, stored in a rodent proof
box, you will be facing much of the same. Dirty, gnawed on and missing parts. Corrosion and rust issues and
older airframe and parts that have since been updated. And of course the time to overcome all of these challenges!
Lot's of Time...:eek:

I wonder sometimes if the $$ I saved was worth the trouble! :confused:

Well... of course it's worth it! lol. The savings paid for the engine upgrades and avionics!! ;)

Enough of the pity party. Back to work!

Here are the wings after a week of scrubbing, inside and out. I alodined the spars, inside and out.
Painting or 2-part epoxy primer I felt would just add to much weight. The white vinegar is a cheap mild acid
that not only cleans but prepares the aluminum for the Alodine. You have to flush everything with fresh
water between steps. An amazing amount of scrubbing is needed and the alodine treatment still came out
blotchy. Thank goodness the wings will be covered! I'll topcoat the root ends of the spars with the gloss white
urethane. Perfection can be attempted later with the covering and paint! :D

At least they are treated and I can live with myself knowing they will be safe and corrosion free in the decades to come.

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FoxTrotter
02-22-2019, 01:29 PM
Received a package from Tosten mfg. with my 2 new CS-8 joystick grips! Super quality stuff.
More fun! :D

I assume hat switch is trim, trigger is PTT, but what about the other buttons?
- Thanks--Michael

bbs428
02-22-2019, 02:11 PM
Thanks to everyone for the nice replies. It's appreciated!

As to the stick grip buttons... yes hat will be trim and trigger PTT. Index button will be the radio toggle.
The two top buttons could be Ident. for transponder and wig-wag or wig-wag and landing light.
Or if one prefers...Missiles and guns. lol. Or the in flight movie and beverage cart!

More than likely I'll use one of them to speed dial the Mrs. to let her know why I'm not home and still in Idaho, Nevada or Arizona... ;)

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David47
02-23-2019, 04:14 PM
Good job on the spars. I think everything you've done in the way of corrosion treatment is spot on. I did the same on mine but also did a two pack prime on the outside - which was not necessary because the Alodine has good corrosion resistance anyway. Renovation is always harder than creation. Keep at it, will all be worth it.

atosrider
02-28-2019, 08:43 AM
I like the longer stringer that ramps up the vertical stab. Where you trying to create an off-set that would reduce the need for a fixed trim tab? I'm rebuilding a model III and would like to eliminate any tacky add-on ... but the tail surfaces are all single plate on the III, so it would be tricky to make it streamlined instead of kinky. Anyone tried this fix?

bbs428
02-28-2019, 09:56 AM
Thanks for reading my thread and commenting! :)

No, tbh I wasn't trying to reduce the need for the trim tab at all. I will be adding a small fixed trim tab block on
the lower side of the rudder that I saw on one of the builds. Small, simple and effective. I will fabricate some
threaded inserts so I can experiment with the size of the block easier.

My build incorporates most of the series 7 mods. Larger elevator, longer motor mount and smooth cowl among
many other minor changes. This tail transition offered a cleaner look and it ties the tail in better imho.
I have read from previous build threads that the base of the tail was a bit tricky to cover. So I hope this helps, not
aggravates that.
For lack of a better term I'll call it the razorback mod, lol. Looks a lot better imho and is very light and strong.

bbs428
03-04-2019, 09:31 AM
BRRRRRR it's cold! 7 deg atm. :eek:

Not to anxious to work out in the non-heated shop today. But prior to the deep freeze, we were able
to get the wings drilled and all our measurements remained constant, yay! Nerve racking to say the least.
I'm glad That part is done! Now we need some warm weather to attach the chrome-moly reinforcements
to the spars and set our butt rib and #1 rib in place. Thinking about the epoxy under 32 deg.
I need to see 50+ deg for me to be comfortable with the glue.

Received an AE three stack relay board, Garmin G3X gap 26 pitot tube/tubing kit and GSA 28 connector kits.
The relay will be for the "hat" switch for trim and a third for a spare.
I'm still looking at nav/pos/strob wing lights, and wing mounted taxi/wigwag lights. Not sure which way to go.
No night flying for me these days but I would like the plane to be night flight legal.
Any Suggestions?

Working on the paint scheme was fun. It was nice to sit in the warmth of the fire and color away. Stumbled
onto a distinct color scheme that I liked. I was going to plagiarize the Legend super cub scheme that I
absolutely love but it irked me that I was going to copy another plane. Last thing I wanted to hear was there's
the "little legend" or god forbid a "There's the "mini legend"... but only in his own own mind",
no matter how true/untrue the statement was! lol. :rolleyes:

Still playing around with some ideas. This one is a little busy but fun.
My favorite colors from my favorite flag! :D

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efwd
03-05-2019, 04:41 PM
That paint would be awesome.

bbs428
08-23-2019, 08:48 PM
With Oshkosh behind me I'm back in the shop working. Long hiatus with a bathroom remodel and some leaky water pipes but that's all done. Thank goodness!

Nice to finally meet a lot of you at Airventure. I hope to see you all again soon but this time flying my own!!

Landing gear is on order from Grove. Wing tip landing lights on the way. Got a great deal on my Pulsar AeroLEDs Nav/Pos/Strobe lights and paint from Wicks also at Airventure.

The GMU-11 is temp. mounted. Re-attached the butt ribs .040 higher than the wing. The reinforcement strips for the windscreen attachment to the outside. Got it wrong on the first try! :rolleyes:
Fitted the wing tip reinforcing strips. Wing butts are done until final paint. Used 1/8th balsa sheet to do the close-outs. Fuel placards came out nice. False ribs are in and varnished.

Leading edge cuffs are done and top wing ribs a filled in and smoothed.

The AOA probe is a Gap-26 from Garmin. Fabricated the base and two port attachments from lite ply and scrap aluminum.

One of our members gave me this gem - Carbon fiber reinforcement rods are practice arrows. Cheaper to cut them up than to order pure carbon rod. Two bays per arrow. They are insurance that the trailing edge does not get pulled in during fabric shrinking when covering the wing. Thank you!
Doors and wingtips are ready to massaged into place.
Question - How does that top door trim panel under the wing get trimmed out onto the tabs? I can't seem to find a pic that spells it out for me.

I hope to be fabricating the flaperon system next week.

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bbs428
09-04-2019, 09:18 AM
Working a lot but progress is slow. Cain't help myself but to do simple tasks over and over till I'm satisfied. Argg. :o

The wing butt closeouts have been front and center. Knowing it will be easily noticed by me and others for the rest of
it's life, I'm trying to make it all look as good as I can.

I decided to use #6 truss head screws and some original fuel placard screws to have the butt ribs removable if needed.
Spent way to much time getting it all squared away but it's done. I might get some small bolts for the door hinge tab
but as it is, it's solid.

Had to do some final bubble door trimming and enlargement/massage of the holes. I initially drilled the doors last winter.
Well it's 90 deg. in the shop and the holes were off by a skosh. By gosh the door does grow when warm! Go figure...
Used my 6 inch cut off wheel to give the doors the needed clearance. Used my dremel and a small fine diamond abrasive
bit to enlarge the holes. Did not use any acrylic drill bits during the fabrication. To risky imho.

My 1994 build book had me cut my tail excess panel at the bottom and the top is binding. Noticed at Oshkosh that all the
planes had the cut at the top... I see why now. I have to shrink the metal a bit around the green dot to get it to conform
properly or remake the panel. And so it goes... :p

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Anyways Its time to move on from this exercise to another. Wing tips and flaperons are next. Then engine, avionics, wiring,
cowl, windscreen and turtle back. I figure I'll get it all put together within reason, work out the bugs, disassemble, cover
and paint. Sounds all good but who knows how it will all come together.
One bite at a time... Lol. :rolleyes:

bbs428
11-12-2019, 10:43 PM
Wrapping up the wings. Finished the false spars underside of the fuel tanks. Carved a set of flaperon tips from balsa block. Not so good, modified that set, now just fugly looking. :rolleyes: Got it right on the second try. Happy with them now.

Flaperons needed to be cleaned of mud dauber and spider nests inside the spar. Scoped the spar (camera on the end of a flexible wand) and it looked fine. One rivet on the trailing edge gave me some trouble but other than that, it was all textbook. Old style flaperon hinges were a pita but turned out nice. Square brackets are for the wingtip taxi/wigwag lights.
Hinges on the flaperons had to be polished and lubricated before they worked properly. For once all my measurements came out spot on! Wth! :confused:
Removed the wings and installed the false ribs under the fuel tanks and lift strut close outs. One of our members did his like this and it came out nice. I taped them flush and backfilled around it with epoxy. Thanks to you whoever you are! :)

Received the Grove landing gear, Beringer main/tail wheels, brakes. Still waiting on the Desser 8.50x6x4 tundra tires. When its back on it's feet it will be time to move the fuselage into the heated garage. I'll be working on the firewall, engine mounting, cowl fabricating/fitment. Avionics have been 90% identified. 100% Garmin G3X. Just finalizing the last few components before buying. I'll do the best I can to document the wiring harness build, good and bad. I'll be placing LRU's around in different locations to see how the wires will work out and come up with plan of attack. Finally - something I know how to do... at least I used to know. lol!

I think I'm still going to get it all done, everything installed and running. Sort it out, then cover and paint. We shall see how it all sorts out! Exciting right? You bet! ;)

airlina
11-13-2019, 04:02 AM
Looking good Brett, you are making nice progress and yes the more it starts looking like an airplane the more exciting it gets. Trust me your journey will be worth it. Finished my Series 5 in 2003 and I still look forward to every flight. We just got blasted with snow yesterday so I'm grounded till it melts next week , still a bit too early for the skis. Bruce N199CL

rcbif
11-13-2019, 04:38 AM
Looking good.
Are you upgrading to the super sport turtle deck as well? It is longer than the model 5 deck, and requires 3x new mounting tabs be added, but makes your cargo area opening beneath the turtle deck considerably larger since it eliminates an aluminum cross-member the 5 uses that blocks a good portion of the opening. Also affects where the fabric gets attached, so something to consider before covering if you haven't. I haven't yet decided if I will weld the 3x tab onto my frame, or make some brackets to hysol on.

bbs428
11-13-2019, 07:46 AM
"Are you upgrading to the super sport turtle deck as well? It is longer than the model 5 deck, and requires 3x new mounting tabs be added, but makes your cargo area opening beneath the turtle deck considerably larger since it eliminates an aluminum cross-member the 5 uses that blocks a good portion of the opening. Also affects where the fabric gets attached, so something to consider before covering if you haven't. I haven't yet decided if I will weld the 3x tab onto my frame, or make some brackets to hysol on."


Thanks for asking rcbif - Yes I have the newer SS turtle deck and was unaware of the extra tabs so thanks for the heads up.
I figured something would have to be fabricated for attachments. I have some sheet chrome moly to make them. Hysol tabs would work. It's not critical load bearing structure so no worries there.
Haven't looked at the way fabric will be effected around the new turtle deck. Hmmmm? Thanks again - Dang it - looks like there is a bit more to do, as usual. lol. :D

Arlina - Appreciate your encouragement. I know SOMEDAY I'll be flying - lol.

A builder sacrifices his/her time, sweat and hard earned capital to create something from a pile of parts for something we may or may not fully understand at the moment. We just forge ahead and dream of the day we lift off into the sky where we belong...

Jerrytex
11-13-2019, 08:53 AM
I added the tabs and I also added the razorback/antenna mount on my 5. Basically the aluminum angle that was the turtle deck original attachment point will be used to cover the new mounting tabs and the fabric will go over it. Really wasn't a whole lot of extra work if you don't mind welding a little. I don't know about just using hysol to hold tabs on. Maybe a bracket wrapped around the tubing and glued, but just gluing tabs to the tubing....not sure that would hold especially if you fly with the doors open.

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bbs428
11-13-2019, 09:07 AM
Jerrytex - Thanks for the pic. That helps a lot.
Agreed on the tabs wrapping around for added strength if your just gluing with hysol. I'll be welding.

rcbif
11-14-2019, 05:06 AM
My idea for the tabs was to make them like adel clamps, and then hysol in place. However, this would create a raised portion in the fabric unless you use something to level it across the whole length of the tube, or only do a partial clamp that does not wrap all the way around.

I'm likely going to weld them however, as I plan to install an antenna plate behind that same tube welded to the next diagonal cross-member which requires welding anyways. I may even see if Kitfox can throw in some of the factory tabs in my next order.

bbs428
11-16-2019, 09:04 PM
Team kitfox comes through again!

I found an older post on installing the Ring Mount dating back to 08-03 2012. Thanks to Jiott and Dave S for the Info. Search and you shall find all sorts of goodies.


Spent a good part of the day tackling the installation. The Rotax 912ul is a Zipper high torque 1484cc with cam from Hal Stockman and makes 110hp on 87 oct. The old motor mount could not be used so I ordered a Ring mount from Kitfox a few months back. It was a real PITA installing it, Arggg! Lucked out and did NOT have to modify my water pump coolant tubes. I did have to grind the powder-coat off the mount facing the engine a little at a time to get it on for a nice snug fit.

To cold to cover or paint so moving on with other stuff. Wings, rudder, stab. and elevator are now removed.

Grandchildren stopped in for a visit so I deviously planted the flying bug in their young minds... ;)

rcbif
11-17-2019, 09:24 AM
One more thing about the 5 to supersport turtle deck change I forgot to mention earlier. Since you will be adding tabs and wrapping fabric around the fuselage tube, you can no longer use that tube to support the rear of your cargo bag. Gotta make a tube that can be installed right below it.

With the new kitfox, that piece comes with the cargo kit I believe. You can see this in tropicaltubas build log here.

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Unfortunately cant just buy and use that piece on the 5 since our fuselage tubes are different in that area.

Just thought I'd mention this, as the ideal time to make this piece is pre-cover so you can use the fuselage to jig the pieces while you tack weld them.

Can anyone confirm this piece is just hysol-ed in place?

efwd
11-17-2019, 04:45 PM
I will confirm that. Hysol.

bbs428
11-17-2019, 06:37 PM
Thanks, I appreciate the info rcbif. I got all excited and placed the part on the plane and - oh gee, I have the 7 short turtle back. Lol. I never placed it on the plane before today. :rolleyes:
When I ordered it I just said I wanted the one piece turtleback and Kitfox knew I was building a Outback. I just assumed it was the full size 7 part.
So looks like this part - #11153.201 short 7 - works with how the five is set up normally which makes sense if you want to upgrade. It is heavy at 7.1 lbs so if I swap it out for the larger one it will weigh more and I don't mind the crossmember (I think) at this time and who knows after I live with it for awhile? By then It will be to late to do any changes. :o

rcbif
11-18-2019, 05:00 AM
Well at-least it's one more part of your build that can be straight forward and less head-scratching.

I have bits and pieces for the aluminum deck that I will not use, and have not ordered the lexan one yet. My main reason for going with the longer deck is that with the stock 5 setup, a typical folding bike would have to be further disassembled to fit in back.

Random side note - I have both 5 and 7 build manuals, and the 7 manual I have incorrectly shows a 5 length shorter lexan turtle-deck. This made for some confusion as I was trying to figure out how the rear edge of the turtledeck terminates and where the fabric starts.

bbs428
11-18-2019, 07:18 AM
"Well at-least it's one more part of your build that can be straight forward and less head-scratching."


Agreed. Due to weight, I even considered building the original turtleback. But aesthetics won the day as I like the look of the tinted one piece TB a lot more and the bubble doors and windscreen uses the same light smoke tint. Very torn on getting the larger TB. Not crazy about that crossmember.
I know someday loading up the 5 for a weekend I'll be thinking back on this moment... :rolleyes:

When talking to Kitfox some months ago, I wanted the 7 manual as a cross reference and they were very clear with me not to confuse the 7 vs 5 manuals and build details saying there were enough differences as to only confuse a 1st time builder. Looking back I have to agree, so the only supplements I have is the firewall forward and bubble doors.

rcbif
11-18-2019, 07:36 AM
You probably wont have much of an issue selling that turtle-deck here at the right price to someone looking to ditch their aluminum turtle deck if you decide to make the swap. It is sorta weird that such a significant fabric attach point gets riveted on when they could have used the existing tube, but I guess they didnt have another solution for the baggage hang point like they do on the 7 now.

And ya, there are some subtle differences in the manuals, and it's interesting comparing them. For example, the 5 manual has you rig dihedral off the rear spar, then adjust twist with the front strut bracket position. The 7 is opposite, and makes more sense I think. Base dihedral on the front, and adjust twist on the rear.

jiott
11-18-2019, 11:05 AM
One thing I don't like about my one-piece lexan turtle deck, SS7, is that it rattles and buzzes on the ground at idle and taxi. It is not too terrible but is kind of annoying. In flight it is fine. If I find the time I will try an aluminum angle stiffener placed crosswise in the middle. Anyone else addressed this issue successfully?

rcbif
11-18-2019, 11:18 AM
Is the noise from the flat faces hitting a resonance, or the edges buzzing? If its the edges, maybe some edge trim on the lexan, or strategic pads on the fuselage would help?
https://www.mcmaster.com/edge-trim

If it's a resonance on a face, Maybe you can use some of the 3M acrlic door tape, or VHB tape to secure a poly carbonate angle first to see if that works. May as well try to keep it clear if you can.
https://www.mcmaster.com/1755k62
or
(https://www.mcmaster.com/1755k62)https://www.mcmaster.com/3161t21

jrevens
11-18-2019, 07:00 PM
One thing I don't like about my one-piece lexan turtle deck, SS7, is that it rattles and buzzes on the ground at idle and taxi. It is not too terrible but is kind of annoying. In flight it is fine. If I find the time I will try an aluminum angle stiffener placed crosswise in the middle. Anyone else addressed this issue successfully?

Jim,
As you know, I modified mine with the hinge for more convenient access to the cargo bay and in doing so I added extruded aluminum angles at the hinge attach line for stiffness. I have no discernible "rattle or buzz". I think a stiffener would work just fine for you... some guys were doing that (maybe the factory even - on request?) well before I did the hinge thing. And as far as the hinge goes, there are others who did that before I did also... maybe not the exact same way, but still the same concept. I think that 1/2" or 3/4", 0.063" angle would be sufficient.

I see absolutely no reason to worry about keeping it clear - you don't normally even notice it back there, and in my opinion it certainly doesn't obstruct the view (such as it is) in any important way.

PapuaPilot
11-18-2019, 07:51 PM
I put a strip of 1" wide foam under the aft edge of my one piece plexiglass turtle deck. I have never had a buzz or rattling. I think mine is 1/8" thick.

ken nougaret
11-18-2019, 08:04 PM
One thing I don't like about my one-piece lexan turtle deck, SS7, is that it rattles and buzzes on the ground at idle and taxi. It is not too terrible but is kind of annoying. In flight it is fine. If I find the time I will try an aluminum angle stiffener placed crosswise in the middle. Anyone else addressed this issue successfully?

I assume I'm hearing the same rattling as you are Jim. Most noticable when I'm on grass and the plane is rocking more. But so far I'm just living with it. Like you say, its quiet in the air.

bbs428
11-19-2019, 12:06 PM
Started working the cowl install and it's going ok so far. Question on the spinner to cowl gap. I'm at .25 gap. Seems a bit much. Worried that if I try to get any tighter It will bite me down the road. Any thoughts??

jiott
11-19-2019, 01:07 PM
Thanks for the comments on stiffening the turtle deck. I do have a strip of thick Teflon tape under the rear edge. The reason I think its the big flat surface that is vibrating is that I can stick my hand back there and support the lexan when it is buzzing and the buzzing stops.

bbs428, I wouldn't try to get too tight with the spinner to cowl gap because the tighter that gap is, the more difficult it makes taking the lower cowl on and off. It can be somewhat difficult at best.

PapuaPilot
11-19-2019, 01:17 PM
I wouldn't go any tighter than 1/4". The engine will move during operation and sag as the engine mounts age.

bbs428
11-19-2019, 05:49 PM
"I wouldn't go any tighter than 1/4". The engine will move during operation and sag as the engine mounts age."

Thank you! Agreed on the sag.

The book says 1/8 - 3/8. All I had to do was look ahead a few pages! Good grief! :o


Plane drew blood today...one of many droplets given in this build.

Cannot say enough how this forum has helped me. I have searched through the past builds of the cowl installs done and mine is no exception. Nothing lines up and I'll have to do a lot of massaging in order to get something that looks respectable.

Onward and upward!

bbs428
12-01-2019, 10:17 PM
The weather has NOT been cooperating lately but when does it in late November/December in the mid-west?
I have made some progress despite this and family holiday obligations.
The Cowl slipped a bit and turned out a bit lower than I wanted but I adjusted it and re-drilled the holes and all is good. Was a lot of work to get it where it is! Replaced the two fiberglass tabs with aluminum ones and placed two more on the upper cowl ahead of the most forward camloc as far forward as possible. Used flush style 1/8th ss pop rivets and Aeropoxy to attach them. Worked out nice.

1st pic is where it was when I started. Pencil lines in the last pic is how I mark for more material to be removed sanding along the edge. Used 1/4 inch wood spacers superglued to the front of the cowl to help for spacing. Clear packing tape holds everything together as I drilled. Still have to do the final bodywork. Wish the cowl was better finished as it will be a PITA to get it acceptable for paint.

I am so slow. Lol. I keep thinking I'll pick up the pace but it never seems to work out. :o

bbs428
12-03-2019, 10:24 AM
Cowl alignment tabs.

jiott
12-03-2019, 11:08 AM
My personal opinion is that you still need the tabs that you cut off for the screws that go thru these tabs to help securely attach the top cowl.

bbs428
12-03-2019, 12:15 PM
The original hardware is still used and works fine with the new tabs. Just not installed. :)

captainphx
12-13-2019, 02:34 AM
I am so slow. Lol. I keep thinking I'll pick up the pace but it never seems to work out. :o

Wow, I have the exact same thoughts about my build!

Shadowrider
12-13-2019, 09:23 AM
I ran no attachment screws or camloks on the front of cowl or the side front tabs. Did not see a need. If you fit it tight the side are plenty sufficient to secure. I ran a couple layers of fiberglass on the front taps to re-inforce them after I broke them to fit better. I think you still want the tabs to keep the front of the cowl shifting?

bbs428
12-13-2019, 06:38 PM
Here's what I did. Just fabricated new tabs. Fits good after a ton of work!
Removable Boot cowl will be done with Skybolt fasteners.
Still needs bodywork done and a good sanding.

jrevens
12-13-2019, 09:11 PM
I cut off the fiberglass and made new tabs out of aluminum also, Brett. Riveted and bonded them on with Hysol. I used standard nut-plates. It worked well. The tabs help keep everything aligned... I've seen several similar cowl designs on other aircraft that have tabs in the same locations. They may not be needed, but it feels right to me.

bbs428
12-14-2019, 07:50 AM
Agreed that the tabs feel right to me as well and keep the cowl snug and aligned behind the spinner.

Question - I'm not sure how I feel about the cowl bulging out between the fasteners. Is the only solution is to add more fasteners? Does the cowl relax after awhile?

bbs428
05-24-2020, 08:50 AM
A shout out to all The Vet's out there who did and did not come home. On this Memorial Day, I'm grateful I can live my dream because of your sacrifices!

With the warmer weather and most of life's curve balls solved or deflected It feels great to delve back into the Kitfox. It seems life is conspiring to keep me out of the air. It won't work! It always amazes me how anyone finishes an airplane, juggle a job, a wife and children! I'm retired, all the kids are gone, my wife's is very supportive and still I struggle to make progress! :D

Made another standoff stringer for the bottom of the fuselage from seasoned straight grain pine as I used for the razor back mod. Strengthened the tailwheel mounting plate and reinforced the left side rudder pedals. If you do this - exercise caution welding the reinforcements on. The tubing is very thin. I used .023 wire and a the lowest heat setting possible. Did a few practice welds before I was satisfied I wasn't going to screw it up! Tig would be a better choice here and have a better looking weld imho. Kitfox also has a kit that requires no welding. Overall I'm happy with it.


I bought all the poly-fiber chemicals last year at Oshkosh from Wicks saving the horrible hazardous shipping costs. I'm following the entire poly-fiber system with no deviations as a certified aircraft would have to. Topcoat will be Aerothane. Colors are Insignia white, Pontiac red and Eagle blue. To get the best results I purchased a full face fresh air respirator and an Apollo Hvlp power 5 paint system. Painting polyurethane is hazardous. Every precaution needs to be made for safety. Working previously in a boatyard with Stirling polyurethane products gives me an edge... I hope! Lol. :o


Building large RC airplanes also helped when it came to covering. Many of the same skills and techniques are used. Already had the small heating irons. Bought a cheap non-auto shutoff iron from a local thrift store for ten bucks! lol. It barely hits 345 deg. but for this job it's fine. Calibrated all the irons to 225, 250 and 350 deg. Bottom cover is on and hope to be done with the rest of fuselage this month. Oretex is looking real good atm but my labor is cheap and the money saved will go to the G3x system.
Cya next time. For now it's back to the salt mine... :rolleyes:

PapuaPilot
05-24-2020, 09:39 AM
It takes a lot of hours to do the fabric and paint, but it is one of the most rewarding parts of the build. Sounds like you are doing things right and taking the proper precautions. Keep at it and post some more pics when you can.

BTW you are using the same colors I chose.

And yes, a shout out to all of our veterans and those who have lost loved ones for our country. Words cannot begin to express the sacrifices you have made to defend our freedom.

jrevens
05-24-2020, 01:07 PM
That's looking great, Brett !

bbs428
05-28-2020, 11:43 AM
Covering is laborious to say the least so I took some time to look over the wings, do some final sanding and check
the fuel tanks for leaks. Filled the tanks with fuel then filled up the latex pressurization devise with human CO2 to simulate
positive pressure in the tank under flying conditions. Lol - No leaks. Yay! :D

Found a few rough spots that would have shown thru the covering so those were sanded smooth. Still thinking of adding a USB
charger port by each lift strut but IDK, I'm not looking at becoming the next U-tube sensation. I Just wanna have some fun with
like minded Kitfox drivers.
Any thoughts on USB ports or anything else before it's all covered? Please post. :)

bbs428
07-09-2020, 05:55 AM
Lot's has been done over the past few months!

Thought I'd get the GA-35 WAAS, GPU-11, Sirius XM, and the TED TXPDR antennas done before covering is completed. Made a ground plane for the TED antenna. Was unsure if it was needed so did it anyway. Installed the skybolt fasteners for the full piece acrylic turtledeck. These are the ones with the bailing wire that folds down. Very nice! I installed dual 3amp usb ports by the wing lift struts on both sides. Faired in the lift strut closeouts with superfil.

Started to label all wires with my new Dymo label maker. Used clear heat shrink on each wire. Very handy! Thanks to one of our fellow builders for that tip! This is why you DON'T want to label with masking tape: Found one of my masking tape info labels gone off the ELT wires I did last year. Oh boy, here we go... So had to open the backshell on the unit to figure out the deal and what did I find? Two wires that came undone from the solder cups! Wth? Cold solder joint, so Re-soldered all the wires using my new, more powerful soldering iron. Nice to find that now vs later. :rolleyes:

Rudder and elevator are done with one coat of poly-brush. Bottom and port side of fuselage is covered and shrunk to 250deg. Starting on starboard side today, then Vertical stabilizer, horizontal stabilizer and then wings. Went over the wings again feeling with my hand everything that will contact the fabric. Found numerous rough spots! Sanded and feathered the ribs till smooth one more time, lol. Went over all the other surfaces as well and fixed them as well. Amazing what your sense of touch can pick up! :o

Received my inflatable paint booth. It will fit inside my shop (barely) when inflated. If bad weather hits it won't blow into Kansas! Lol. I'll have to make some interior supports so I can turn off the fans when not in use. All I need is an environmental suit. I have two vehicles to paint as well so it will be worth the extra expense. I'll resell it all to another builder when done.
Hot as hell here in the Midwest and the shop is 90+deg. Working mostly in the morning till I can't take it anymore.
All the best to all our builders and flyers out there. Fly safe! :D

alexM
07-09-2020, 06:42 PM
Great build thread. I'm working the kit that was owned by user rcbif from earlier in this thread.

Like you, I'm having some issues figuring out what I have/don't have and what's screwed up and needs doing over. I make it a little ways and then find out what I need to order. Then I mill around waiting for the UPS guy.

Still happy with my purchase. It's not going to be my last plane build so I'm not shooting for museum piece.

Anyway, great seeing what another 5/7 builder has gone through. I reserved N527KF since N57KF was taken. Unlikely anyone will notice but that's okay.

Meyer
07-11-2020, 08:03 PM
One idea... it is very likely you will want to put the transponder where your GA35 vertical mounting plate is. I put a vertical plate there with my 45R and safety trim. Just an idea.

Shadowrider
07-11-2020, 08:39 PM
Looking good! Only suggestion I have is to move your transponder antenna. I was told its best to have it as far away as possible from everything because they are very noisy. I had read in a past thread that someone was actually having it trip off the autopilot. May want to consult garmin if you have not already? Not saying it wont work there but, may want to double check before paint? Maybe others can chime in that ran it there with similar setup as you?

efwd
07-12-2020, 06:45 AM
Assuming Im seeing the round ground plane there where your xpdr antenna is? I mounted my xpdr antenna there and I have had no problems.

bbs428
07-12-2020, 06:51 AM
Thanks for the heads up on the transponder ant. Now's the time to relocate. I remember now reading about the autopilot kicking off do to the transponder ant. location being to close. Bugger! :p

As of now the GTX45R will be behind pilot seat. GPS 20A might be there as well or on the side plate of the GA-35 ant mounting bracket. All subject to change as I do not have them yet and necessity/function will dictate where they end up!

I really appreciate you guys posting your thoughts on all this. I know you all have thought about this yourselves ad nauseum. Thanks!! ;)

bbs428
07-12-2020, 07:24 AM
Yes it's on the round aluminum ground plane plate in the pic Eddie

bbs428
07-12-2020, 07:27 AM
Some have opted not to use a ground plane. Could this shield the servo's from a majority of the noise generated? Need to research some more. :confused:

PapuaPilot
07-12-2020, 10:23 AM
Yes it's on the round aluminum ground plane plate in the pic Eddie
That is exactly what I did on my plane. I don't think I would leave it out, it is worth having a good ground plane. I have not had any problems with my autopilot kicking offline.

25067

bbs428
07-12-2020, 11:33 AM
My servos seem to be a lot closer to the antenna Phil... If I do move it, I'll keep the ground plane. Agreed it is good practice and makes for a good antenna mount.

PapuaPilot
07-12-2020, 12:57 PM
I took that picture during my build, the autopilot wasn't installed yet. I just installed the servos this spring during my condition inspection. The aileron servo is in the exact same spot as yours.

bbs428
07-12-2020, 02:02 PM
That is good news... Thanks for the input Phil. :D

efwd
07-12-2020, 05:32 PM
I had a source, maybe from one of Tony Bingellis' books that suggested that the metal tubing of the airframe is an adequate ground plane. I didn't install a ground plane anywhere on my plane and I have had zero issues. I just made sure the metal to metal contact was achieved. My pitch servo resides about 8" above that xpdr antenna and I have had no AP disconnects. I wonder if I had put in a ground plane, would I have been able to communicate further? I don't think I have had an occasion where I needed to reach someone and wasn't able due to distance.

bbs428
07-12-2020, 06:25 PM
No cautions on the GSA-28 servo being to close to transmission sources but I did find this nugget of info in the GTX 45R install manual -

3.12.1 Transponder AntennaNOTEGround planes must be considered for installations on composite aircraft.
Conductivewire mesh, radials, or thin aluminum sheets embedded in the composite material supplythe ground plane to maximize the antenna pattern (gain).
This can improve transponderperformance.
Transponder antenna considerations help the installer to select the best location for the antenna.

Theantenna should:
• Be attached away from major protrusions, such as engines, nacelles, propellers, and antenna masts.
• Be as far as practical from landing gear doors, access doors, or other openings that could affect itsradiation pattern.
• Be vertically attached on the bottom of the aircraft.
• Not be attached within three feet of the ADF sense antenna or any other communication antenna.
• Not be attached within six feet of a DME antenna.
• Be attached to a minimum of three feet of cable from the GTX 35R/45R to prevent RFinterference.

My Antenna is within three feet of the transponder location so I'll relocate it to the other side which also solves the possible interference with the A/P servo's.
You never know what you might learn when you RTFM! :D

dactel
07-14-2020, 08:44 AM
The location of the antenna and what’s around it affect its impedance and thus how much of the power is transmitted and how much is bounced back towards the transmitter. The closer you get the antenna’s impedance to that of the transmission line, the better.

bbs428
07-14-2020, 01:27 PM
Thanks Terry, makes sense. :D

bbs428
08-24-2020, 05:45 PM
I'm fighting the hot weather in my all metal shop to get the airframe painted before winter gets here. It's August in Missouri so that means 95+ deg. at 70+ % humidity or worse. Needless to say the plane will not build itself! Lol. So back to the salt mine... Good news is that I have lost 20 lbs. of lard and am well on my way to seeing 220lbs for the 1st time in 20 years! Goal is to be at 210-15 fully clothed when it's time to fly. I can dream - right? :D

So far it is turning out very nice but OMG the work involved is a killer! I plan on the heavier, more durable finish. I have 1/2 of a wing and the horizontal stab. left to do before I inflate the Chi-Com bouncy house paint booth. I can't wait! Lol.

Yes I'm sure I'll go looney tunes by the time this plane is flying - TO LATE! :o

**Be aware that a heat gun can ruin all your hard work if you use it incorrectly. Stits Poly-fiber manual warns NOT to use one due to it being impossible to get the temperature correct. You can blow a hole through your fabric if the wrong technique is used! I suggest making a 2x4 frame and practice if you have not covered before.

bbs428
08-26-2020, 08:43 PM
More covering pic's

Shadowrider
08-26-2020, 08:51 PM
Wow! That's a lot of work! Looking good.

bbs428
09-30-2020, 09:57 AM
A ton of work!

It's going well but sucking up some serious time. The cold weather will be here soon. I have a few more weeks to get the paint on. I have placed a ceramic heater by the ventilation fan and viola - warm air wafts in and things get nice and warm quickly. We shall see if I can continue when the real cold gets here. With luck - I'll be done soon with the paint... Lol. :rolleyes:

The internal structure is so I can power down the fans after work without the Chi-Com paint booth totally collapsing. I purposely made room in the shop so I can continue to work despite the weather. It is not rain proof! Had to wrap the rafters in old sheets and towels to keep it from chafing. But so far it's working great! The last pic is when the booth is deflated.

The Apollo 5 stage HVLP system is so nice to use. It's totally eliminated the problems I had with my other standard paint guns and air compressor system. I highly recommend it.

Shout out to John McBean at Kitfox, Joe Ruscito and Bryan Bowen for all the help and video's.
Also thanks to all who have gone before me here in the forum as I have used many of their ideas and solutions to solve the myriad of issues and problems that come up during a build.
I continue to be humbled as I build my plane. A good exercise in following prescribed practices and NOT reinventing the wheel! Lol. When in doubt RTFM. ;)

Back to work! :p

bbs428
10-02-2020, 04:31 PM
Hard work starting to pay off. Still can see some light in places after three coats from the 5000 lumen led strip. I think one more coat of Poly-Spray will do it.

RV6flyer
10-04-2020, 02:07 PM
Did you varnish the ribs so they would not be damaged when you washed he spars?

JoeRuscito
10-05-2020, 03:06 AM
Looking awesome! Next time I paint I think I’ll go the same way with the booth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bbs428
10-05-2020, 07:55 AM
Did you varnish the ribs so they would not be damaged when you washed he spars?

I used the Stits EV-400 epoxy varnish on all the ribs prior to the alodine treatment.

bbs428
10-12-2020, 03:58 PM
Best weather window for painting in years. 70 - 80 deg. Low humidity. Just perfect. Might go on another week or so...

The plastic painting cups are nice to use and the tops have a built in filter. You can store your leftovers with a cap and clean up is easy too.

When I sprayed the Poly-Spray, I knew what the Stits manual said was true.... "All your sins will be revealed." Some pieces turned out very good - others not so much. I have spent a lot of time fixing little bug-a-boo's.

Haven't worked this hard in years. :p

109JB
10-12-2020, 08:36 PM
May I ask why so many inspection rings on the lower wing surface and why aft of the rear spar? The location aft of the spar seems odd and the number seems excessive to me.

bbs428
10-13-2020, 01:57 AM
May I ask why so many inspection rings on the lower wing surface and why aft of the rear spar? The location aft of the spar seems odd and the number seems excessive to me.


They follow the wiring harness. Probably will never use them. If there are any issues in the future, access will not be an issue.

bbs428
12-15-2020, 08:21 AM
Working indoors now as the cold weather has settled in. A benefit of the paint booth is that it makes working comfortable in 35/40 deg. as it heats up to 55/60, but at 20 deg. or colder it struggles to make it to 40 deg. mark. So work has to shift to the heated garage at the house.

Finalized my instrument panel layout and spent a few days carefully cutting and shaping. Used an two part etching primer. Plans are to use a white two part semi gloss primer followed by a two part semi gloss gray topcoat. I plan on having the panel engraved or may use an overlay - not sure yet. Paint thickness is critical for that so I'll have to be careful.

I was going to send the instrument panel in to be cut professionally but as my friend Bryan says "what's the fun in that?" :rolleyes:
It was a little nerve wracking tbh. But it all came out nice. Amazing what you can do with a Dremel tool, a step drill and a file.
Throttle and choke to be on a bracket under and a bit forward of the panel.

Finally finished Jeweling the firewall - what a job! Looks good but glad it's over!.

I modified some aluminum blocks I found on a RV website. I have big feet and I know I'll be on those toe brakes from sitting in the a/c. Time will tell if they are worth it. After cutting and drilling they added 9 oz.

Finalized the GSU 25, GTX 45R and the Sirius ant placements. I spend way to much time hand wringing over these details. Lol.

Made a jig and mocked up the instrument panel to work some issues out. Glad I did. I have a wiring jig made up and plan on spending the rest of the winter making my harness. Oh Joy! Should be fun!

What a great way to spend your time working on your airplane. We are all so blessed. Have a great X-mas season everyone! :D

alexM
12-15-2020, 09:39 AM
The wood panel mockup is genius. Quick to make, you can sit in the plane and change your mind as many times as you want. Then you have a form board to create your wiring harness.

RV6flyer
12-15-2020, 11:09 AM
In your last picture I see a round antenna ground plane. Does the antenna just stick through the fabric?

bbs428
12-15-2020, 12:15 PM
RV6 - That's the txpdr ant. and yes is just sticks out. (see 1st pic. it's wrapped with tape) It's a TED ant from AC Spruce. Reinforced the small hole with a tape. Com ant is in the vertical stab. I moved the TED ant. due to possible interference from the a/p servos. (see 2nd pic)

Many have said you do not need a ground plane and while true, it does make for a nice install, it's very light and it should increase the ant. performance. How much? We shall see! :D

alexM
12-15-2020, 12:26 PM
Do you have pics of your COM antenna in your vertical fin? I want to do this too.

RV6flyer
12-15-2020, 12:44 PM
Thanks for the response.

You just showed a new photo with the antenna attached to the airframe. Do not need the ground plane for that antenna. The other photo in a series of a number of photos shows a ground plane attached to the airframe with Adel clamps. You do need that ground plane for that antenna.

A com antenna in the vertical stab can be a problem due to all the metal tubing around it.

Allan

bbs428
12-15-2020, 04:09 PM
The wood panel mockup is genius. Quick to make, you can sit in the plane and change your mind as many times as you want. Then you have a form board to create your wiring harness.
Very handy indeed. The idea from Nikk Audenried and J. McBean's Kitfox avionics video.
My back cannot contort like it used to so I just roll my chair around the jig and it works out very nice. Easy to solder, build plugs and run wires. Goal is to look like a professional harness, works like one and fits! Not a lot to ask for... ;)

Here is a pic of the entire jig board early in the initial mock up.

bbs428
12-15-2020, 04:48 PM
Do you have pics of your COM antenna in your vertical fin? I want to do this too.

Sure thing... It's an SA-006 from AC Spruce.
Two things to remember.
1. You have to have an access panel for the com ant. connection. DAR will want to see it. Some don't like a access panel in this area.
2. Your never changing it so if you decide to use another ant. after it's installed, this bit of aluminum is going to stay there forever or until you recover, whichever comes 1st. :D

alexM
12-15-2020, 06:35 PM
Thank you. Damn, I wasn't imagining needing an access cover. So the DAR will want to see the connection or will want to see that it has an access panel for the connection? I understand the risk of having to abandon the thing in the tail, which is why I was hoping to find how others did it successfully.

Have you powered it up and done any range checks? As Allan points out there is risk that it won't work well, but I've read of it being done in rag/tube airplanes.

bbs428
12-16-2020, 02:17 AM
No, I have yet to power it up. It will be at the top of the list. Allen brings up some good points. I don't know if the metal tubes will mitigate the signal to the point of uselessness or not. Before I cut that access hole you can be sure I'll be doing some testing!

If I were to do it again or IF I have to do it over, I would install this antenna on a non metallic brace in the fuselage where I can get at the connection so no access panel would be needed.
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems.php

Geek
12-16-2020, 09:05 AM
No, I have yet to power it up. It will be at the top of the list. Allen brings up some good points. I don't know if the metal tubes will mitigate the signal to the point of uselessness or not. Before I cut that access hole you can be sure I'll be doing some testing!

If I were to do it again or IF I have to do it over, I would install this antenna on a non metallic brace in the fuselage where I can get at the connection so no access panel would be needed.
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems.php

I believe Darrel (Delta Whiskey) used the 5T antenna in his vertical stab. He indicated during his build that he was happy with its initial performance. Now that he's flying, maybe he can chime in and let us know if he's happy with the performance. His build log has some great pics of his install as well. Good info on the requirement for the antenna connection access point. Hadn't thought of that.

Geek

RV6flyer
12-16-2020, 10:10 AM
You got me interested in researching antennas. My RV-6 antenna is on the bottom and performs very well. Here is the antenna I think I am going to use on the bottom of my Kitfox5. It is only 10" high so will fit very well from the baggage area forward. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antenna11-13829.php

Delta Whisky
12-16-2020, 10:27 AM
The comm antenna in my VT and it is working great!! Even driving it with what I believe to be the world's least expensive radio; I'm picking up pilots doing pattern work over 70 miles away. I don't have a picture of how I completed cable routing: the rough install for a ground test picture is here:
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I did give some consideration to access but I opted for a risk mitigation approach - used high quality connectors and the most expensive cable known to man (sans NASA purchases) and the fact that I've never had a connection go bad. If something in this style of installation goes bad I'm pretty much in for installing the replacement 1/4 wave behind the turtle deck with the attending weight penalty.

Installation was to cut minor recesses in the ribs:
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I attempted to keep it securely in place but away from the metal frame as well as restrictions permit:
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And tested to make sure I could get the HT in and out without damaging the antenna:

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Retention at the bottom end, after the HT goes in, is via a tie off to an installed tab:
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bbs428
12-16-2020, 10:29 AM
You got me interested in researching antennas. My RV-6 antenna is on the bottom and performs very well. Here is the antenna I think I am going to use on the bottom of my Kitfox5. It is only 10" high so will fit very well from the baggage area forward. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antenna11-13829.php

Roger that. Nice price as well. Appreciate the the feedback & heads up!

bbs428
12-16-2020, 10:44 AM
"The comm antenna in my VT and it is working great!! Even driving it with what I believe to be the world's least expensive radio; I'm picking up pilots doing pattern work over 70 miles away."

Wow! Looks a lot bigger than the pic at the AC spruce site. That is a nice install.

Figures no matter how much research you do, you miss something. Sure would have liked to have stumbled over this nugget a few months back. Not the end of the world if it's a total fail. It can all be fixed, just have to throw more time and $$ at it.

The 2nd plane I build should be perfect... "cough" :rolleyes:

Appreciate you posting DW.

Delta Whisky
12-16-2020, 10:41 PM
I'm pretty sure the one on the ACS site is either of a version for a transponder - or the picture was just cut off. The two are of the same format, just tuned to different frequencies. (See http://www.advancedaircraft.com/)

bbs428
01-28-2021, 09:35 AM
Attention!

The Mrs. has decided we have to move to a new home. Not real happy about all this but as my wife says - "It's not all about you and that airplane."
It is a much nicer home tbh and I am a team player.

The quote "Ours not to reason why, ours but to do or die" comes to mind...

So this project will be on the back burner for the next 3-5 months.
Did I mention that I have to finish remodeling a bathroom to get this home on the market. :mad:

That is all.

bbs428
01-28-2021, 06:15 PM
Disclaimer!

The Mrs is a wonderful person whom I would never complain about. I wouldn't even have a plane without her! :o:o:o

Delta Whisky
01-28-2021, 08:09 PM
Wise man. Happy wife, happy life.

bbs428
11-18-2022, 01:31 PM
The remodel and move went as expected. Sucked the life out of me but the Mrs. is happy.

I relocated the Comm antenna to under the fuselage, forward of the landing gear. It's an AV-534 quarterwave antenna from Spruce. Hopefully all will be fine there.

I removed most of the access panel rings under the wings. Agreed that it was overkill to have that many. Was a pain to build up the surface for paint after removal but the Poly-fiber process made it somewhat easy to do. Lucky the wing was in UV grey and no topcoat paint.
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Finishing the filling and painting on the lift struts and wheel pants. This is the last of the painting. It's taken all year to slug through the learning curve and get a good result. The weather window is closing rapidly here in the Midwest. 60 deg. weather is coming next week and is really nice for the Aero-thane, plus you don't sweat as much in your environmental suit!
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I'll be working on the windscreen, engine wiring/plumbing and the G3X wiring this winter. Really paid off having all the Garmin LRU's paid for before the covid fiasco and price increases.
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My mission will be mostly municipal/county airports so the treaded training tires and the wheel pants will be a good thing. The smooth 8.50x22's will be for the off-airport stuff later as my time/experience increases. Gastons and others like it would be ok for the little tires and not to challenging.
Here's a shameless plug for Gastons Resort:

At Gaston’s, we offer our own Bermuda grass airstrip. It’s open to everyone, not just guests staying in our cottages. Feel free to fly in for breakfast, lunch, or dinner any day of the week, or on Sunday for our famous Sunday brunch.

Latitude 36 20’55’N | Longitude 92 33′ 25’W | Gaston’s Runway 06/24
Turf Surface -3,200 feet long | Field Elevation is 479 msl | Unicom 122.8
Kansas City Chart | 3M0 | Airport Identifier
No Tie-Down Fees | 100LL Fuel Available

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bbs428
11-24-2022, 11:30 AM
Enjoying my new shop. It's got a lot more room and 3 large garage doors vs one slider. The paint booth fits well inside and during the winter months and it's easier to heat the smaller space to continue working.
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Raining today so I'm organizing and cleaning the shop. I've been working on the lift struts. Big pita with all the cuts and fill.
Balsa, super fil and lots of sanding is doing the job.
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Propeller spacer has been milled down 5mm to accommodate the alternator pulley. So, all that's back together again.
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I put together a wire harness board on the floor. In the lumber pile I found two 3/4", 4'x4' sheets of plywood and a 1"x4" to connect them. Measured out all the LRU's and will start to rough in the harness soon. It will be a lot easier to build the connectors and test the harness outside the plane. I've been to every wire/connector repair school that navy had back in the day. Hope I can recall my skills! lol. Looking forward to this part!
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Time for guests to arrive, so time to put all this stuff up for a bit. Hope everyone here has a blessed Thanksgiving!

bbs428
12-03-2022, 06:40 AM
Lift struts have been a challenge, but they are finally done. Does everything take three times longer than expected?
The great news is that the wings can be permanently attached! Just have to let them cure for a week, especially in the colder weather. Paint booth is heated to 65 deg.

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Wheel pants will be the next challenge as were in uncharted territory with the Grove gear and Beringer wheel/brake setup. I will have to make a custom aluminum plate to attach the pants. My original "wheel pants kit" was for the stock tube gear. Not much use except for some of the hardware. I'm thinking about a retro fin on the wheel pant to match the new rudder profile. Not as big as the 1959 Cadilac, but maybe like the 1963! Might be a foot hazard though. Lol.
Anyone with some pic's of how they did theirs would be appreciated.

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alexM
12-03-2022, 09:19 AM
Great work. I'm going to have to look back to see what you did for your rudder profile.

I'm quite sure I have the mounting hardware for the pants to Grove gear. Yours for the asking.

And yes, about 3x not including the time I just spend staring at it planning out my next moves

bbs428
12-03-2022, 09:41 AM
Thanks for the offer Alex! Not sure if I posted the rudder mods. I'll download something on that today.

I'm not sure how the Grove, Cleveland wheel/brake setup will translate to the Beringer wheel/brake setup but hey, it just might work!

Could you pm me with some pics of what you have and what you want for it so I can decide?

Here's how Kyle Franklin did his:

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bbs428
12-03-2022, 11:03 AM
About the Rudder

The mod started when the completed rudder fell and punctured a hole in it! Arg! The attempted patch looked awful
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So, I peeled off all the covering and started once more. Wasn't happy with the way I did the overlaps this time, so I started again from scratch. Sigh.
Must have been meant to be as I then vaguely remembered something about the rudder control horn that was different from the 5 series and 7 series. A search though the Team Kitfox archives led me to this nugget of info:

Modify rudder control horn? (teamkitfox.com) (https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/threads/11893-Modify-rudder-control-horn?highlight=rudder+control+horn) Thanks guys!

Now, after thinking about all this I'm not so torqued off as I can make the rudder better and while it's all apart why not make the rudder profile different as well?
And I wonder why it takes me so long to accomplish anything! Lol.

The old control horn was cut back but still provided a nice mount for the new chrome-Molly horn. If you look closely, you'll spot the balsa boxes I built to contain the rudder hardware when attempting to install the rudder with big clumsy fingers. They came in very handy! Made the new profile out of balsa, filled and shaped it with super-fill.

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So here it is all mounted and ready to go!

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airlina
12-03-2022, 01:22 PM
Brett, your rudder horn mod looks great and you'll be glad you did it once you start flying , so like you stated there was a reason for the rudder puncture wound that prompted your rudder redo. I applaud your attention to detail, because a lot of guys would have left that initial patch job and moved on. Sounds like your the type that would have noticed it on every preflight and thought- "shoulda fixed that!" Plane is lookin great, keep pluggin, Bruce N199CL

alexM
12-04-2022, 10:37 AM
Brett,

I got your PM but I can't attach a picture to the reply. This is the backing plates, the axle spacers and all the hardware.
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bbs428
12-06-2022, 06:16 PM
Brett,

I got your PM but I can't attach a picture to the reply. This is the backing plates, the axle spacers and all the hardware.
31228


Looks good! I'll take it. I sent you a pm.

bbs428
12-06-2022, 07:54 PM
Back on page 6 of this build I roughed in the cowling. When I finally started prepping for paint, I found the need to work on the cowling quite a bit more, but the plane fuselage was on my rotisserie, so I came up with a support structure to prepare it for paint. I rummaged around the shop and came up with some stuff that could work. 2- 90deg shelving brackets, An old card table, A Harbor freight furniture dolly, 2 Clamps, Five-gal bucket of sealer for a counterweight and some scrap 2x6's. That little ceramic heater under the table kept everything nice and warm during the cold snaps!

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Made it real nice to do the prep because the fiberglass parts have lots of minor flaws and their fair share of pinholes. Would have loved the carbon-fiber cowling but its way outside the budget for me so we have to make do. As other will attest to, the cowling fit leaves a lot to be desired. Mine was no exception. It caused a lot of colorful language and many hours of work. I used super-fill for the flaws, a high-quality auto-body filler for the pinholes and a grey 2-part epoxy primer. 400grit for sanding. With a little attention to detail, you can get an acceptable outcome for all the hard work.

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I was able to lay out the paint lines and get the white shot first, then the blue, because you can overlap the blue just a smidge onto the white, not the other way around. Once the white graphic was on the cowling, it was disassembled for further painting as it made it easier to maneuver the parts around. I use the cheap throw away paint cups from our local Chi-Com tool store. About ten bucks for the 30-piece refill kit. They work well.

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Jerrytex
12-07-2022, 07:01 AM
Ahhh....... the ole Fiberglass rodeo. Turned out very nice!

It's almost like a rite of passage when you make it the other side of completing the fiberglass parts. Like you should get an award, or certificate, or maybe a picture on a billboard somewhere? Ha.

jiott
12-07-2022, 11:42 AM
Brett,
It looks to me that you have a very nice outcome on your cowl fit. For me it was the most difficult part of the whole project, so when it was done it was a great feeling and satisfaction.

bbs428
12-08-2022, 07:27 AM
Painting a lot of white is hard! Like finding your way in a white-out snowstorm. Following your wet edge is hard to do. A high-performance head light helps out.
Shot a light coat of Poly-tone Insignia White over the Poly-Spray as a base for the Aero-thane topcoat. 1 light and 2 medium coats with 15-30 minutes between coats depending on the temperature. Aero-Thane likes to stick to itself. If you try to rush or lay too much in at once you will get runs, drips, sags every time. This time, everything worked out nice.

Safety measures were a pita but necessary. Had a Hobby Air system and 3m hazard suit. No exposed skin. Made it difficult to paint well.
Hose management, humidity, dust control, how much reducer, how hot/cold - all contributed to a steep learning curve.

I followed the complete Poly-Fiber system as for a certified a/c. With care it should last 20+ years easy. I'll be taking my dirt nap by the time this bird needs recovered.
Oretex is the easier route, but some of us "special cases" have to do it the hard way cause were just special! Lol. :rolleyes:

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Discovered some problems with the elevator. On closer inspection I just did not do my job good enough before covering. "Sigh" Some of us just can't live with it being even slightly dicked up, so you know the drill, off comes the fabric and we get to do it all over again! Yay! :mad:
Luckly, I had plenty of materials to do it all again. I used a piece of wood and my shop-vac attachments to help out painting the elevator. Made it easy to flip it from one side to the other. Funny how it always comes out nicer the second/third time around, Lol.

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bbs428
12-13-2022, 12:07 AM
Finally Started to paint the wings. Head light came in very handy. The cooler weather really worked to our advantage.
Had to improvise and install the wing tip to carry out the paint lines so everything lines up. Of course, there was still more work to do on the tips before they could be painted.
Laying out the lines is time consuming. Using a premium vinal 3m tape is the only way to go. Once you have one side done, you measure the tape on each rib to the leading or trailing edge and jot it down. Then duplicate the measurements on the other side and the opposite wing making sure your start and end points are the same.
Bottom of the wing is easy. Top - not so much. Curvature of the wing makes it challenging. Lot's of "eyeballin" to get it right.

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Fabric weave still showing through the paint is a good sign. Being two big flat surfaces and on the rotisserie, made the wing much easier than the other aircraft parts by far. Yes, my wing rotisserie is a hodge-podge of scrap lumber, pvc pipe and screwed to two moving dollies. Thrifty and it works well!
The blue and red were a lot easier to paint. Although the red was slightly translucent. Having a white base helped to make the red look good and bright. I was really happy with the paint color and how it turned out.
The gloss of the Aero-Thane is deep and full of luster. Who doesn't love "shiny" Lol.

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After a few hours we removed the tapes and seen to any bleed throughs. A q-tip or small stick dipped in reducer or thinner and a steady hand takes care of this. The better your taping, the less bleeding you have to deal with.
The Paint booth does a good job of keeping most of the junk out of the paint, but you have to be obsessed with cleanliness. Still no matter how clean you are something will tend to muck it up. You Have to wait 5+ days to cure. Then 800-1500 grit paper and a good buffing compound took care of 90% of those issues. The rest you have to live with!

airlina
12-13-2022, 03:52 AM
A tip I learned from an expert painter was this: after mask tape is applied , I took a hobby type small sprayer and shoot the edge of the tape (in your case this would be the white) and this fills all the tiny tape voids so that when you shoot your trim colors they can't "sneak" under the tape and ruin your crisp lines. Worked great with no need to address any bleed throughs when done. Its a bit of an added step but the rewards are worth it. Your wings look great by the way, cool scheme. Bruce N199CL

Geek
12-13-2022, 08:49 AM
Brett the wings look awesome. I see all that work for the painting and am envious........but given my history of painting.....glad I am going with a Plain Jane Oratex variant Kitfox. I do have a question however. How do you wear this Special Forces Recon Darkness Eradicator with the Darth Vader Wannabe mask?

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PapuaPilot
12-13-2022, 10:06 AM
That's a beautiful paint job on your wings. I really like your scheme.

alexM
12-13-2022, 10:15 AM
Very creative paint scheme and it looks like it's coming out great. Oratex is quite utilitarian by comparison.


A tip I learned from an expert painter was this: after mask tape is applied , I took a hobby type small sprayer and shoot the edge of the tape (in your case this would be the white) and this fills all the tiny tape voids so that when you shoot your trim colors they can't "sneak" under the tape and ruin your crisp lines. Worked great with no need to address any bleed throughs when done. Its a bit of an added step but the rewards are worth it. Your wings look great by the way, cool scheme. Bruce N199CL

^That is genius. I'll have to remember that one.

jiott
12-13-2022, 11:57 AM
Yes, Airlina's tip is worth its weight in gold. Have used it a lot; someone tipped me on it way back when I was doing RC models. Lines come out perfectly crisp.

bbs428
12-13-2022, 12:32 PM
"Brett the wings look awesome. I see all that work for the painting and am envious........but given my history of painting.....glad I am going with a Plain Jane Oratex variant Kitfox. I do have a question however. How do you wear this Special Forces Recon Darkness Eradicator with the Darth Vader Wannabe mask?"


Lol, yes I do, but I'm still working on my James Earl Jones sinister voiceover!

Believe me there were times I wanted to scrap this crazy paint job idea, paint it all white or cough up the extra $$ for the Oratex!

bbs428
12-13-2022, 12:43 PM
A tip I learned from an expert painter was this: after mask tape is applied , I took a hobby type small sprayer and shoot the edge of the tape (in your case this would be the white) and this fills all the tiny tape voids so that when you shoot your trim colors they can't "sneak" under the tape and ruin your crisp lines. Worked great with no need to address any bleed throughs when done. Its a bit of an added step but the rewards are worth it. Your wings look great by the way, cool scheme. Bruce N199CL

Well now, that's a great tip Bruce. I should have posted something on that way earlier! I could have done a better job.
At first, I had a few bleed throughs but toward the end it was rare. I caused most of my own problems by using a cheaper tape. Once I switched to the 3m vinal tapes the problem went away.

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airlina
12-13-2022, 02:57 PM
Brett, your work looks great from here sitting in front of my computer, and I think from the responses you're getting, your paint scheme is a big hit . Can't wait to see the finished product. Keep up the good work . Bruce N199CL

PapuaPilot
12-13-2022, 04:20 PM
Brett,
Have you posted drawings of your paint scheme anywhere?

bbs428
12-13-2022, 08:09 PM
"Brett,
Have you posted drawings of your paint scheme anywhere?"


I had posted it way back. March 2019 pg.3, post 23

https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21826&d=1551716615

There have been some changes from that original drawing, which I hope are for the better.
I free handed that sketch. I was just playing around with those swoopy chevron's (what I call them). Kinda stumbled onto the design.
My wife really liked this iteration the best and encouraged me to do it, even when I wanted to throw in the towel. Lol.

I made the white area on the wings bigger. I was concerned the dark colors would build up heat in the hot summer months.
The flaperons are now all red
The graphics on the top and bottom rear empennage and the vertical and horizontal stabilizer have been redesigned.
I'll be posting all of this soon, as the painting is all done now, except the wheel pants.

bbs428
12-17-2022, 03:38 PM
The fuselage was a lot of fun. I must have laid out the lines a dozen times before it all fell into place. I literally just kept at it till it made sense to my eyes. All of it was free handed

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Kitfox Pilot
12-17-2022, 03:57 PM
Brett that looks great! I paint a little and I know that was a lot of work right there in those pics! Harlan

bbs428
12-17-2022, 10:23 PM
No matter how hard I tried I just couldn't get the original concept to look decent on the stabilizer/elevator. Yuk!
Looks like it's back to the drawing board - literally!

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Hmmm - Why not just do the same as the vertical stabilizer/rudder? As the design moves aft it becomes less busy and has a cleaner look.
Follows the key KISS principle of Keep it simple stupid! Looks like it's meant to be, so it's a keeper!

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Callie Graphics Did the Kitfox logo and the "N" number in Eagle Blue. The "N" number on the instrument panel in Pontiac Red.
I used them a lot when I was building scale WW1 RC airplanes a while back.
Very nice to do business with and easy on the wallet.
Callie Graphics (callie-graphics.com) (https://callie-graphics.com/)

I really like the flow of the chevrons. Gives the plane a real feeling of movement. Glad I continued the design elements under the plane and on top. Much different than the original rendering, eh?
The rudder turned out great after all the hard work. Especially pleased with the fit and finish of the rudder bolt access holes! Getting the bolts in and out will try your patience! Had to improvise and overcome and made a special tool from a cheap 3/8's wrench to get it on. Lol.

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Geek
12-18-2022, 05:14 AM
KISS principle for the win!! Brett your paint looks great and there certainly won't be another Fox out there looking like yours. Man if you were sill in the Canoe Club they would have you out in the hangar bay painting the CAG bird.

Gary

bbs428
12-19-2022, 04:55 AM
KISS principle for the win!! Brett your paint looks great and there certainly won't be another Fox out there looking like yours. Man if you were sill in the Canoe Club they would have you out in the hangar bay painting the CAG bird.Gary

Not bad for a brown shoe tweet, Lol.
I had some friends in corrosion control (crud crew) and saw what they did on a daily basis. They were a good bunch.

The CAG bird always got more love than the rest of the birds. It was always nuts - 700. Our designator for S3's being 700 series - 700 - 709. After we went to all haze grey paint, the colorful CAG birds all went away.

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Before this project, I mostly painted from a P!ss can! The Apollo HVLP rig helped. Had some do-overs but you learn fast on what not to do.

Redline
12-19-2022, 08:39 AM
My paint scheme is a much simpler design than you have and it's still a ton of work! Nice job Brett!

bbs428
12-22-2022, 12:21 PM
Finally getting serious about the wiring harness.

The G3x system seems hard at first but is actually not that bad once you get your head around the Can Bus daisy chain, shield drains, data lines, etc. I practiced my solder techniques, crimping and splicing on two short pieces of shielded twisted pairs for the can buss and a few pieces of shielded wires before jumping in whole hog.

The tools are not that expensive, and you can use the savings by doing the harness yourself for other stuff you need.

This thread by Eric Page is a must read! Avionics Wiring Harness: A Tutorial (teamkitfox.com) (https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/threads/11670-Avionics-Wiring-Harness-A-Tutorial)

After many an hour contemplating on how and what to do, I finally settled on a plan of action. I read the G3x install manual many times and made a wiring, power distribution and a Can Buss diagram for my application. Also made copies of each LRU pinout. Watching the many you-tube videos helped. Some of the auto wiring harness videos are very helpful as well.

This is what is working for me and just my 2cw.

1. Ran a flexible, 1/2" rope, duplicating the wire runs to all the LRU's. I have a main trunk line in a lightweight aluminum channel from the firewall to the rear by the header tank and it fans out, front and rear to the LRU's. I Noted where the attachment points are located on the frame and put two small red dots marking the location for later.

2. Taped a smaller rope/line to the other peripherals such as switches, starter, etc. onto the main trunk line, taking into consideration service loops for access or removal for troubleshooting. I tried to get everything as neat and organized as possible.

3. Took some pictures and went over everything to make sure everything electrical is accounted for.

4. Removed the new harness mock-up and transferred it to my workstation and placed it so I could comfortably work on the wires without it moving around. I like to stand and work, so my table is some plywood, on some tall sawhorses so I can walk around comfortably.
I had it on the concrete initially and found out quickly that wasn't going to work! Lol.

5. The sequence I used for building the harness:

A. Power - to c/b
B. Ground - must have zero reference ground. No grounds at different places in the a/c
C. Can Buss - work out how the Can Buss will flow from each LRU and which LRU to terminate the buss at the ends.
D. RS-232 - multiple shielded data lines
E. Data - individual shielded/Non shielded lines
F. Strain - relief
G. Backshell - build and secure shield drains.
H. Secure - the wire bundle. I used string ties.

Did one wire/connector at a time so NOT to get confused.
Labeled everything as I went because you will get lost in mass of spaghetti quickly.
I use a Dymo D1 label maker, lots of 1/4, black on white cartridges and clear heat shrink and label as I go.

When completed, I'll test it and post the results. Fun stuff!
Btw - Beer did help, but only in limited quantities, Lol.

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Kitfox Pilot
12-22-2022, 02:35 PM
Looking good! You are right about not being too bad once you get your head around it all but I wondered a time or two if I ever would when I wired mine. Haha

bbs428
12-22-2022, 02:36 PM
Some pics of the rope harness that didn't get in the last post.

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Geek
12-24-2022, 07:16 PM
Brett - Is this your voltage regulator? How did you decide which side of the firewall to put it? Juss wonderin.

Merry Chistmas mate and hope for you and yours a great New Year.

G

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bbs428
12-25-2022, 03:22 PM
Brett - Is this your voltage regulator? How did you decide which side of the firewall to put it? Juss wonderin.

Merry Chistmas mate and hope for you and yours a great New Year.

G

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Yup, that's the stock Ducati regulator. It's there on the inside of the firewall because it seemed like a good place as any.
Figured the fan couldn't hurt as some say it runs hot. Being the backup, I'm not as concerned on placement. Don't think there's a perfect spot tbh.
If it were my primary, I might have found a place under the cowl and how to get some good airflow on it.

bbs428
01-07-2023, 04:55 PM
Knee deep in alligators, or in this case G3x wiring. I have good days and not so good days understanding what's going on. Back in the day, I could clearly see how the circuits/wiring worked in my head. Now in my 60's, I have to work at it a lot harder by making capacious amounts of diagrams and notes. Not to mention lots of coffee and no beer till quitting time!
Good news is that I understand all the moving parts and were making headway, albeit slowly. I sure hope the smoke stays in the LRU's when the power gets applied!

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Nylon zip ties are temporary. I like string ties. What a mess! Sausage making is not pretty halfway through.

airlina
01-08-2023, 02:48 AM
Brett, it never ceases to amaze me how many wires go in to our "simple little airplanes." Looks like you are doing a great job keeping it all organized though. Whenever I take the cowling off mine and look behind the panel it looks like I threw a pan of spaghetti back there and called it done. A daunting task to be sure but when you are done you will have a great airplane. Bruce N199CL

bbs428
02-04-2023, 03:14 AM
More wire sausage making. And a few odds and ends.

It's been cold and I have completed some tasks, others not so much. Working on my certification paperwork in the morning when it's just too cold to go out to the shop. I'll plug the EAA homebuilders "Step by Step Certification Guide." Excellent resource! I also attended an EAA webinar on the subject. Learned a lot of what I thought I knew, Lol.

So far only 2 calls to Garmin on some obscure details on sensors.
Found out that snaking and securing the wire bundle under the center console is best for younger hands and backs! I have to do warm up exercises just to get to the places I need to! Spent a lot of time routing wire bundles, not liking the result and then redoing it all another way.

The GEA24 is the only LRU left to populate. Getting close to the "turn it on" for the 1st time part. Decided I needed water temp. so I got a VDO sender from a/c Spruce and installed it in the radiator. So now I have water/oil/head temperature and oil pressure. No EGT as I have carb's. I do have an AFR gauge so I can dial the carb's in and keep an eye on them.
Installed the red tail com antenna and like it much better than just the bare whip style. Nice shot of the underbelly. You can see a few details.
I used 3m hd. double-sided tape to affix the lower firewall to the fuselage aways back. Read about that in another build thread. Turned out nice. I used versatube 3003-0 as brake lines and they exit right under the center console faired with seaplane gromets. Turned out nice.

Notice the "high end" LP heating system, lol. So I just moved the plane into the paint booth. Keeps me warm at about 60 deg. The metal shop is just too expensive to heat. Ceiling is insulated but the walls are not.

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Have been doing a lot of research on my new 45amp alternator and how to wire things up so they don't smoke. I'll report all that when it's sorted and working. Lots of moving parts to figure out.
The weather is turning warmer for a few weeks here in flyover country, so we'll have to make the most of it. No time to waste! Back to work!

airlina
02-04-2023, 04:00 AM
Brett, the project is coming along nicely and your craftsmanship doesn't go unnoticed. I do like the clean look on how you did your brake lines , but i am a bit concerned that after many cycles the 3003
aluminum may work harden to failure and spoil your day. Maybe some who is smarter than me can chime on the properties of the 3003 tube to say if this should be a concern. If you google this html
there is a neat video on the grove gear drop tests . Bruce N199CL



https://groveaircraft.com/droptest.html#

bbs428
02-04-2023, 10:08 AM
Wow! that video an eye opener. I knew the landing gear flexed but that's crazy man! Thanks for posting Bruce, much appreciated.

Tbh - I don't know how many cycles the landing gear would have to flex to have a versatube fail.
I guess it would depend... if I was retired Air Force, I would flare gently and grease every landing with minimum flex!
But since I'm retired Navy there is no flare, I just aim for the numbers and bounce it on the deck with a thump and a screech!
There's a bad joke in there but I'll refrain...

The lesson for all of us 1st time builders, just do it right the 1st time, follow the book and quit thinking your gonna do it better! :D

Jason Murphy
02-06-2023, 09:08 PM
Brett, the project is coming along nicely and your craftsmanship doesn't go unnoticed. I do like the clean look on how you did your brake lines , but i am a bit concerned that after many cycles the 3003
aluminum may work harden to failure and spoil your day. Maybe some who is smarter than me can chime on the properties of the 3003 tube to say if this should be a concern. If you google this html
there is a neat video on the grove gear drop tests . Bruce N199CL



https://groveaircraft.com/droptest.html#

It is a totally different kit but Vans will run the 3003 versatube all the way down the gear leg loop it around the gear leg a fill turn then connect it to the caliper. My C150 is plumbed with hardlines and C172s are also.

I recently watched a video by Homebuilt Help discussing replacement of nylon brake lines with hard lines although he suggested using a braided line where there would be movement.

bbs428
02-07-2023, 03:29 AM
It is a totally different kit but Vans will run the 3003 versatube all the way down the gear leg loop it around the gear leg a fill turn then connect it to the caliper. My C150 is plumbed with hardlines and C172s are also.

I recently watched a video by Homebuilt Help discussing replacement of nylon brake lines with hard lines although he suggested using a braided line where there would be movement.

Thanks for posting that Jason,

I ordered some 3/16 NSR nylon tubing from a/c Spruce and might redo some of the high flex areas. I use ss braided line from the lg to the wheel.
All my original tubing has mysteriously disappeared into the void. Being mfg. from 1998, it's better gone. Although I did find all the brass 3/16 SAE fittings! :confused:

NYLON TUBING 33NSR 3/16 BLACK | Aircraft Spruce (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/05-01230.php)

bbs428
02-07-2023, 04:16 AM
Some details on the wingtip light mount for Jason. It was a real pita getting it all to work. Third pic is upside down. Light is angled down.

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Jason Murphy
02-07-2023, 07:17 PM
Some details on the wingtip light mount for Jason. It was a real pita getting it all to work. Third pic is upside down. Light is angled down.

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Thank You! I will need to be doing this in the near future. I just fitted the aluminum strips to the outboard edge of rib 10. Was it difficult getting the curve right on the lexan? I was thinking about getting a sheet and trying to lie it over the top of the unmodified wingtip and applying heat to see if it would take the shape of the wingtip

bbs428
02-08-2023, 04:23 AM
As for the Lexan lens, I did use a little heat to help it conform to the shape of the wingtip. Luckily it is pretty flexible. Be careful, too much heat and you'll be redoing it all again!

I used flush rivets on the 4 mounting tabs. Used some good quality body filler over the rivets and sanded smooth. The oversize tabs made it easier to position the mount where it needed to be and to fasten it. It conformed to the complex shape well.
Around where the light attaches, I doubled up the aluminum and fastened with aluminum pop rivets to give some strength. It turned out light and strong.
Dipped it all in Alodine before riveting it all together.
Heads up on the wingtip leading edge - when you attach it, you'll have to compress it some to mount it to the wing which stresses the leading-edge joint I experienced some cracking. Also, I had to reinforce the thin area between the light and the wing with aluminum and epoxy. I used 3m 5200 polyurethane sealant on the outside in the cracks as it met all the requirements, and I had it on hand. Any good outdoor sealant would work.
I'll get some pics of the completed wingtip soon with the AeroLed Nav/pos and wingtip light installed soon.

You will be amazed at how much time you'll have in the wingtips when you're done. A metaphor on the entire Kitfox build!

bbs428
02-08-2023, 04:51 AM
As to the rotisserie Jason, I used two chi-com moving dollies, some leftover wood and some pvc pipe. Cheap and it worked well. Other can chime in on their mousetraps!
A couple of extra high sawhorses came in handy as well.

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Kitfox Pilot
02-08-2023, 06:52 AM
[QUOTE=

You will be amazed at how much time you'll have in the wingtips when you're done. A metaphor on the entire Kitfox build![/QUOTE]

This is a very true statement. I was always amazed when starting any small section of the build that my time est to do the job was always to low. Haha

Jason Murphy
02-08-2023, 11:09 AM
This is a very true statement. I was always amazed when starting any small section of the build that my time est to do the job was always to low. Haha

That’s the truth! I think I have about 12 to 16 hours just putting the aluminum strips on the outside of rib no 10. 2/3 of that time was getting rid of a big gnarley bead of hysol the wing shop put on there.

I distinctly remember someone telling me one time “Fits like a Kitfox part.”

Jason Murphy
02-08-2023, 11:17 AM
As to the rotisserie Jason, I used two chi-com moving dollies, some leftover wood and some pvc pipe. Cheap and it worked well. Other can chime in on their mousetraps!
A couple of extra high sawhorses came in handy as well.

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Any trouble with having the “Y” centered.

I read a post from Larry Wenning where he used an engine stand and propped the other end on a tall sawhorse.

I think my plan today will be to try and replicate that setup. I was given an engine stand (actually 3 of them). 1 is stock from Harbor Freight the other two are welding projects.

what I was thinking was to offset the arms of the Y where the wing would rotate on the center of the cord length. That would help with clearance issues I may have with the engine stand. Then add some 2x4s to my wing jig to make an “H” for the other end to rotate around. Similar to your high saw horses

Redline
02-08-2023, 12:08 PM
We used a similar set up as Brett. The wing could be fixed in place in four different orientations. Super simple and lightweight.
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bbs428
02-20-2023, 09:20 PM
Power up went well. Updated the system and database. 16g memory cards were the largest recommended. Garmin suggested to use 2, one for updates and one for the database - maps and charts.

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All was not perfect in Mudville my friends. As I was testing my hat switch, I realized I had no down trim! Yikes! I powered up in configuration mode and verified the hat switches were indeed working correctly. A quick continuity check from the GAD27 to the TCW booster verified all was good there. Hmmm? Decided to give a call in to the Garmin tech support and that was disappointing. To be fair I've called at other times and have received excellent help.
Deciding to take matters into my own hands, I decided to check for shorts as well and lo and behold, pin 14 at the pitch trim servo was indeed shorted! Now were getting somewhere!

I disconnected the connector at the servo and the short went away! Or so I thought. Connector checked good so I went to pin 13 and 14 in the servo itself and pin 14 was shorted! Wth? Started to sweat a bit, envisioning a 650.00-dollar test and check bill from Garmin, (I bought my G3x over 2 years ago so i'm out of warranty), I took the servo out and looked it over carefully. The retaining nuts for the connector were loose! Really? How'd that happen? The connector receptacle was moving in when pressed and every time it was pressed, it shorted pin 14!

Holy Toledo!

Tightened up the nuts and wala - no more short! Powered it all up and now the pitch trim works in both directions!

Happy days!

Jason Murphy
02-22-2023, 05:40 PM
Wrapping up the wings. Finished the false spars underside of the fuel tanks. Carved a set of flaperon tips from balsa block. Not so good, modified that set, now just fugly looking. :rolleyes: Got it right on the second try. Happy with them now.

Flaperons needed to be cleaned of mud dauber and spider nests inside the spar. Scoped the spar (camera on the end of a flexible wand) and it looked fine. One rivet on the trailing edge gave me some trouble but other than that, it was all textbook. Old style flaperon hinges were a pita but turned out nice. Square brackets are for the wingtip taxi/wigwag lights.
Hinges on the flaperons had to be polished and lubricated before they worked properly. For once all my measurements came out spot on! Wth! :confused:
Removed the wings and installed the false ribs under the fuel tanks and lift strut close outs. One of our members did his like this and it came out nice. I taped them flush and backfilled around it with epoxy. Thanks to you whoever you are! :)

Received the Grove landing gear, Beringer main/tail wheels, brakes. Still waiting on the Desser 8.50x6x4 tundra tires. When its back on it's feet it will be time to move the fuselage into the heated garage. I'll be working on the firewall, engine mounting, cowl fabricating/fitment. Avionics have been 90% identified. 100% Garmin G3X. Just finalizing the last few components before buying. I'll do the best I can to document the wiring harness build, good and bad. I'll be placing LRU's around in different locations to see how the wires will work out and come up with plan of attack. Finally - something I know how to do... at least I used to know. lol!

I think I'm still going to get it all done, everything installed and running. Sort it out, then cover and paint. We shall see how it all sorts out! Exciting right? You bet! ;)



https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/blob:https://teamkitfox.com/a1e953bf-a9bf-44c2-be3f-f8d70b00f236

I really liked your idea of making the flaperon tips match the wingtips

did you end up taking this all the way to the back of the trailing edge?

bbs428
02-23-2023, 08:58 AM
Jason - I did have two pairs carved. Both tips curved into the trailing edge. After they were glued in, I realized it was the old pair!
Argg! Just my luck, the better pair was lost somewhere in the move to the new house...
It was one of those moments where you just sigh, shake your head and move on. They still look really good but could have been better.


31837

jiott
02-23-2023, 11:57 AM
I did the same; curved the trailing edge of the balsa tips to totally eliminate that weak feather edge. No problems for 10 years now.

bbs428
02-24-2023, 10:21 AM
Cannot upload pics for some reason today? I resized smaller and no joy, so this will be a text only post!

Squawk to admin.

It's 27 deg. here this morning, windy and clear as a bell. Took two steps toward the shop and turned around. Lol. Much warmer in the house in front of my keyboard.
Lol. Yeah, I can hear everyone laughing all the way from the frozen tundra up north!

Installed my aluminum joggles for my baggage compartment for the Velcro to attach to and fitted my floorboard.
Discovered that a critter had eaten a few holes in the bag! Is there always some obstacle to overcome on every aspect of this build?
The Mrs. has graciously volunteered to fix it so I can move on.

Routed my com wires over to their respective positions behind the pilot/copilot. will be soldering those up today as well. I have two aluminum, triangular plates painted black. Behind the copilot will be the pilot receptacle and vice-versa. Thanks to a forum member for that info.

I was dorking around with the G3x system yesterday and found the video button and lo and behold I had a video image on the screen! Cool! But the taxi cam switch is off? Oh-bother. The camera is a chi-com, 18-dollar Raayoo with horrible install instructions. I cut the rca connector off and got rid of 10-15 ft. of unneeded video wire and installed an Amphenol plug.
Anyways, found my wiring issue and went to turn it on and…nothing. Camera was dead. Found out (thru trial and error) the camera was getting its ground from the video plug back shell. Still not sure how I bricked the camera, but I did. Sigh.
Without boring you all to tears I ordered a new camera and it’s all up and running. It's the same camera and with better instructions! Tbh, for a cheap backup camera, the price is right, and it has a nice picture...well good enough to taxi anyway!
I made a tactical error (go figure) and should have wired in a discrete lo on the Gdu 460 to turn the camera on from the joystick. Right now, you have to turn on the taxi cam switch then go to the g3x menu, then menu again, then select tools and then video. Ugg. Not a very elegant result.
My four sw. on the joystick are - a/p disconnect, com tx, com flip/flop and com something, lol whatever I make it. Could have used that last sw. for video. What would work is to wire up the discrete lo through the taxi cam switch! That will solve that issue.
I'll get right on it... https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAYAAAA f8/9hAAAAGXRFWHRTb2Z0d2FyZQBBZG9iZSBJbWFnZVJlYWR5ccll PAAAAvlJREFUeNqkUltIFFEY/mZmZ2Znd2rdrW03s0xTKqU7ZUIXoyuFkD4k9JYPUQ8VSPRgb0H QQ/TUW2VQBBFRJBhGUWalFN0oTXLNXaVM6bJXx7mcmdOZtYvUYwc zsfP/3/n//7zc5RS/M/x/B2wLnKq46CJ2thh21jDOBh/xng7u8 EjtLc1HxuageseKNj4yK/tKaEi9aAKkWAQ Bkh0BGuqF1d8SZ0L5oM334j4B1gatzZkdvCGW7QQNhWOmXsLUk qGmwLBmCWgbO4KG9aYc2MFo/7wS9mS90BfTzCE2cQ9aKN9OzDT7adW4bCzuUZLpp8nElnRicjL efXELJeJx bpmjxY4h5NbyeREbTcKybSpVgCXrVkIJRdzmIExbi8GeNPRP91 BdVwvbJhB88xFueKp8lAue/B4i87XLU7gVJNeFDQfvgGVNGqQWKJuiN7oJK1YfZk4K82FCdBD eU Zy/qdABXyzYJspaImDINowLC2BvtZaRCMe5Pou43PHHhiZflipt/jw4BA8pkF/d8AmP0HNrGQbJl7f7cT80u3Q0xoCqgcib06 k xH4spa6BaHQOkKTEvmzHwHHMfBsRBn8hAEGZnvBpKj4whOdyAJ RykvhFIfhEBxUYkyKMgshimRmNuLe/1el0LbfpwJzilBFXVfox9MpBOUjZcG7mUhft3Mhh6m3U7hTSrB NnhAegG2mSZfS8hhKtfjF7v6MABZdFmSZAt DwZ3G79jkSMCX0hCAWAeUU8vDPDQLAa71qu5ZjbvVdjgia4c7j 0SvQsDNGxYt/QTimyCr7wDFQu0DA3SiALFOUVfviKK2B7l2Ok4x5uvcg2HekUX zMLOgOniKJYzpZC3F9FqhqX0eNzttcUKnOXQ5CZvm0yvwSp931 4c71j5EqMO3UzJnSxOpuhh2MdqIwIPM rjCsz/DR4eovTWKRivSqh0t3ksSx6B5N4dOo5dz6l819Z/jhDioG4AgX5tfuD/ApNge3 9M/7F3dBJUnCDwEGAH6OZh/jCBVfAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC

When it warms up today, I'll do some body work on my lift and stabilizer strut airfoils and the wheel pants. There is a nice weather window moving in and conditions will be good for primer and paint.
I have to get the paint booth down to put the wings on and finish all the stuff that needs to be done - like the windscreen, dash, turtledeck and flaperons. Sometime this fall after my runups and taxi tests, I'll start getting squared away for my DAR inspection, that is if my registration paperwork goes thru. It was mailed in on 2/21. Fingers crossed!
The fireproof data plate, N-number, passenger warning placard, and the "Experimental" sticker is on. Woot!

It's warmed up so enough flailing at the keyboard, back to work!

Geek
02-24-2023, 06:29 PM
You wuss!! It was 5 here this morning and I don't mean 0500 .... the high was 21.

G

bbs428
02-24-2023, 06:44 PM
You wuss!! It was 5 here this morning and I don't mean 0500 .... the high was 21.

G

Haha - 28 years in SoCal has made me soft. Tbh, the shop wasn't too bad. 47deg today, 62 tomorrow and 70 Monday. Nice!

Every day in the shop is a good day, cold or warm!

bumsteer
02-24-2023, 07:41 PM
Don't know if you had a reserved N number ( I had one), but when I sent mine in this past summer, except for a question about a form concerning Skystar ( 1998 kit) I had the number within 3 weeks. Good luck!!

Rick

bbs428
02-25-2023, 05:11 AM
Hey Rick,

Reserved my "N" number 3 years ago - N66KF and the Skystar form was sent in with the registration paperwork, so were good there.
But never underestimate the potential of the bureaucracy to derail your train... :rolleyes:

bumsteer
02-25-2023, 07:25 AM
The thing they questioned was on the form that prints out with the letter from Kitfox LLC explaining Skystar is no longer around. The form has the header To: FAA Registrations. I circled Skystar as the seller and signed my name on the Owners Signature line. For some reason whoever was doing my paperwork thought I was associated with Skystar and wanted my title with the company. So I sent back a letter explaining (again) Skystar was no longer in business and I signed the form as Owner/Builder. Everything was approved the day after they received my second letter.

Rick

bbs428
02-26-2023, 03:24 AM
Here is some pics that didn't make it in the last post. Baggage sack rodent holes, Aluminum joggles and taxi cam video.

The Mrs. has got the bag all squared away. Needs a good cleaning before install.
The aluminum joggles are left over parts of the old series 5 turtledeck.
Looks like I can use a discrete lo on the GAD27 to switch the taxi cam video. Shouldn't be too hard to get into J271 and wire up a few before I make the wires look pretty. The GDU460 has no input for that function.

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Kitfox Pilot
03-01-2023, 05:28 PM
What camera did you use? I have a cheap backup camera from Walmart but I'd like to get a 1080p to try a better camera.

bbs428
03-02-2023, 03:37 AM
It's resolution is 800 x 600. Made by Raayoo. Looks better in person. Lot's of install solutions for this little camera. For me, it looks fine for taxi purposes and the $18.49 price is hard to beat.
I'm trying to mount the camera so it's out of the slipstream and I won't have to mess with the wiring when the cowl comes off. Vibration is an issue to deal with. Still experimenting!

Amazon.com: Reverse Backup Camera,RAAYOO L002 HD 170 Degree Wide View Angle Universal Car Front/Side/Rear View Camera,2 Installation Option,Removable Guildlines,Mirror Non-Mirror Image,12V only : Electronics (https://www.amazon.com/RAAYOO-Universal-Installation-Guildlines-non-mirror/dp/B074P45P7G/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3AQJTKUJKBMAZ&keywords=reverse+backup+camera%23raayoo+l002+hd+17 0&qid=1677751040&sprefix=Reverse+Backup+Camera%2CRAAYOO+L002%2Caps% 2C141&sr=8-3)

This 1080p camera on Amazon is $36.00. Might be a good choice if you need the higher resolution. Definitely a bigger footprint and more challenging to mount.
For the STI crowd, it might be ok to just mount it under the fuselage as you guys don't mind the drag! I'll apologize ahead of time for this flagrant attempt at humor! ;)

Amazon.com: GLK Backup Camera Rear View Camera AHD 1080P Night Vision Reverse Camera, Startlight Night Vision Wide Angle IP69 Waterproof CVBS-AHD Metal Housing for Car Truck RV Pickup : Electronics (https://www.amazon.com/GLK-Reverse-Startlight-Waterproof-CVBS-AHD/dp/B09RZWZ837/ref=sr_1_8?crid=25LABZEJM450X&keywords=reverse+backup+camera+1080p&qid=1677751959&sprefix=reverse+backup+camera+1080p%2Caps%2C164&sr=8-8)

Jason Murphy
03-18-2023, 11:24 PM
Jason - I did have two pairs carved. Both tips curved into the trailing edge. After they were glued in, I realized it was the old pair!
Argg! Just my luck, the better pair was lost somewhere in the move to the new house...
It was one of those moments where you just sigh, shake your head and move on. They still look really good but could have been better.

31837

Thank you for posting this, I will likely follow suit on this. I am thinking going about using a 1/3 build up with a 2/3 taper inboard. Although I like the smooth contour that your flaperon tips feature.

I am unable to see the rivets you put in the trailing edge. Did you Superfil these?

bbs428
03-19-2023, 01:47 PM
Jason - I used flush al rivets and filled the imperfections with Evercoat filler. I used the Super fill on more substantial bodywork on the lift struts, tips and cabin joggles. Flaperons are very susceptible to dings and such. Look them over carefully. 1st coat of primer they'll stand out like a sore thumb. Lol!
My rivet squeezer is this Knipex wrench. Very handy tool!

31963 31962

bbs428
03-23-2023, 08:52 PM
Due to a specific set of circumstances, I no longer have N66KF.
Feb. On 27th 2023 I received a letter from the FAA stating my paperwork had to be redone as I no longer had N66KF! It now belonged to someone else. I looked up the N number and sure enough it was registered to someone else, and the date of change was also Feb. 27, 2023. :confused:
Years ago, I would have had a serious melt down but these days, eh - it's just another day at the salt mine...

Complaining doesn't get you very far with any Gov. agency, and a quick search turned up that N46KF was available, so we secured it. Lucky me, I changed one 6 to a 4 and was done! Callie Graphics once again saved my bacon and had the replacements to me fast!
I had that N number reserved for 2 years but due to my recent move and not paying attention to when it lapsed, caused the issue.
Luckily, I didn't paint the N number on the plane, or I might have needed a defibrillator to get my heart started again!

31997

I've been working to permanently attach the flaperon hinges. I'm going to use a 5200-polyurethane sealant on the top hinges and on the pop-rivet heads to make them waterproof. Never know when you'll be caught out in the rain! I'll touch it up with the Aerothane Pontiac Red after the 7-day cure cycle.
I cleco'd the hinges on and set the flaperons up and checked for proper operation. Had to adjust them several times to get them in line with factory specs. Very smooth and light in roll control. Real happy about that.

Upon inspection I was not thrilled with the paint on the bottom of the flaperons. The tops were very good - one side had a bit more debris in the paint but still very nice. But underneath was some overspray and orange peel. Tried something I never have done before. I used my flex polisher and starting with 1000 grit and water, sanded the bottom of the flaperons! Then I used 3000 grit and repeated. Then I used a Meguires polishing compound to finish. Took a full day to do both and the results were nice, not perfect but better than expected. I can live with that!

31998 31999 32000 32001 32004

I installed the stabilizer and elevator for the last time. Real glad I examined all the elevator bearings prior to install. Over the last few years, a lot of paint and dirt debris found its way into the bearings. Spent some time getting them all squared away. Pitch control was also smooth and easy.
Prop. spinner and wingtips turned out nice as well!

32002 32003 32005 32006 32007

G11 Magnetometer came online and registered correctly and passed 2 of the three self-tests. Have to take it out to compass rose (outside the shop) to do the last test. ADHRS also passed its test, so no more big red X on the screen. G3x is looking good so far. Will have to wait until engine start to see if all of the sensors are wired correctly and reporting good data. Saved a ton of cash building my own harness and purchasing the G3x 3 years ago!

I was going to wire up a disconnect plug for the wing wiring, but my wing butt close-out will not accommodate a plug. Guess if the wings ever need to be removed, I'll have much bigger problems than a few cut wires! lol.

So that leaves the wingtips, windscreen, turtledeck to do. I'm leaving the wiring clean up and beautification for last, as I might have to troubleshoot a few things after the engine is online. List is getting shorter!

Called my friendly DAR who has just turned 95 years old! Neil says he's trying to retire, lol. So might get a lady DAR that works out of St Lous and Atlanta. She has a vacation cottage close by here on Tablerock lake or so he says. Setting it up for July/August time frame. We shall see if it happens in that time or not! lol.

bbs428
03-24-2023, 03:51 AM
Looked through the mail received yesterday and low and behold my registration was there! We are officially registered!

Even with the SNAFU - it was only 26 days to process!

Geek
03-24-2023, 06:43 AM
So is it true that you secretly walk out to your shop, step inside and say "DAMN that's a good looking plane!!!"? Man I would. Really nice work Brett.

Gary

alexM
03-24-2023, 10:35 AM
That thing is beautiful.

When I was reading that I thought you changed to 46KF and then got the mail that said 66KF was yours after all.

bbs428
03-25-2023, 07:16 PM
It's so nice when everything works as advertised with no troubleshooting! All that engineering is paying off. Everything went together smoothly, heck even the paint lines matched up! Lol.

It's all switched on and off thru the GAD27 using discrete lo's. No relays. I commandeered the electric flap output circuit and now it serves for the strobe light. Used up the last of my Deutsch connectors. Handy and easy to use. (Thanks Gary)

Fun day!

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Geek
03-26-2023, 06:54 PM
You must have remembered some of that Tweet stuff from the Canoe Club my friend. You're so right about it being nice when stuff works like you thought it would. Think you're in the home stretch!!

Gary

bbs428
03-27-2023, 06:52 AM
Ha-ha - I have forgotten so much Gary. The old adage - if you don't use it, you lose it is very true.

Good advice for anyone who attempts such an ambitious project is to:
A. Do not **** off the wife!
B. Be as tenacious as a honey badger. Do something to move you forward every day.
C. When in doubt, refer to A.
D. Losing interest or disillusioned? Refer to B.

bbs428
04-06-2023, 06:43 AM
Flaperon installation went well. Still have to make up some red touch up paint for the rivet heads and sealant that sealed the holes in the rivets. Not sure how much morning dew or rain it will keep out of the wing, but I felt better for doing it.

Folded the completed wings for the 1st time. Tail was on the ground, so it really wanted to get away from me. I was prepared for that, so no rash occurred, and it all worked as advertised. You really have to be super careful as the flaperons transition into the turtledeck area! It sure made that tail heavy!

Installed the transport kit. Rear braces came up a little short, as the back of my lift struts are contacting the fuselage covering in the middle, preventing the wings from getting in closer. My angle cut was 35" inches and looking back, 36" might have been better. I can force it closer as the fabric has plenty of give to it, but I don't want to mar the paint, which will happen when transported. Not sure if this is a real problem or not. Adding some material to the brace would be a minor pita but a possible solution. A lift strut recut and paint would cure the issue as well, but I would hate to do that as it's a major pita. Anyone else have this happen?

Luck was with me as my pitot tube just cleared the stabilizer! I think there's a lot of merit getting the pitot inside the lift strut area where you or others cannot run your head into it!

Sorting out the dash and windscreen over the next few days. Still debating on the quarter window tint. I have some material with no tint, some with a dark tint, but none with the light smoke tint like the windscreen and turtledeck.
A call to LP aero plastics and sure, they can send me the material for the window, but it's hard to justify being that color coordinated for the price they quoted. Ouch!

In other news - The latest storm with 100mph winds took out my pine tree, so I'll be lumber jacking it as well over the next week unless I can convince the local mill to come get some free wood! Got to love the mid-west in spring! :rolleyes:

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Dave S
04-06-2023, 09:15 AM
Brett,

Really do like your paint job!

Just a thought, regarding the interference with the lift strut and fabric.

Not quite the same thing, but during my build I ran into not liking the way the fabric fit around the transition area on the elevator between the large and small tube. A beer and some tent time brought me to the conclusion that if I don't do something with it, I'll be reminded of the fact each time I walk around the darn thing. So I ripped off the fabric, got some appropriate materials and made a smooth, straight transition from the large tube tapering back to the trailing edge of the elevator. Much happier with the end result.

It's pretty hard to have everything work without some occasional backpeddling.

bbs428
04-06-2023, 11:22 AM
Thanks for the kind words, Dave.

Upon closer inspection, the flaperons are hard up on the transport cushion and the hinges are up hard against the flaperon skin so I really cannot go any further inboard even if I made more clearance with the wing strut. I'm sure subtle differences between the series 5 and 7 are at play here.
I'm not into a reverse engineering job, nor all the labor that's involved, so I think I'll modify the rear transport wing brace and gain some clearance. Don't need much. When/if I get a hanger, the need to transport and fold the wings will be greatly minimized.

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Dave S
04-06-2023, 12:46 PM
Brett,

Modifying the lock back brace will certainly take care of it for transport purposes. Jeez - I didn't think of that!

You know, I thought I would be folding the wings frequently - turns out in practice hardly ever!

I think the only person who would be affected by a slightly wider wing lockback would be someone trying to stuff the plane in a really,really narrow box trailer.

Take care and enjoy your project.

Eric Page
04-06-2023, 12:54 PM
...the hinges are up hard against the flaperon skin...
Be very careful with this. It's quite easy to push just a little too hard and force the hinge arms to dent or even cut through the flaperon skin. I had to patch several hinge slots in my flaperons because the previous builder stored them carelessly.

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bbs428
04-06-2023, 05:52 PM
Thanks Eric, I remember your post on this. They are very fragile when subjected to forces other than their design parameters.

The flaperon slots will need to be relieved about .0625 so they can stand up straight when folded without contacting the hinge. One bump going down the road will make for a bad day with things as they are.
Chase Balcom (sky pirate) told me he used a micro-fiber towel between his lift strut and fuselage to prevent chafing as his lift strut was up against the fuselage when folded as well.

Ordered a longer bolt to accommodate the added measurement for the rear transport brace. That and a few washers will be enough to get me back and forth from M. Grahm Clark airport without any undue stress...I hope.

As you can see in the pics that a bit more length of bolt will give me enough slack to secure the wing. Had to "tweak" the brace a bit to get the angles right. The last pic shows the flaperon not at the right angle when contacting the cushion. It's impinged at the flaperon slots.
The transport kit is for a ss7, not a 5 outback so there might be some slight variations between airframes. Was able to pick it up in the classified section of the forum some time ago at a good discount. So, I don't mind the minor inconveniences getting it all to work.

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alexM
04-07-2023, 08:05 AM
Brett,

Really do like your paint job!

Just a thought, regarding the interference with the lift strut and fabric.

Not quite the same thing, but during my build I ran into not liking the way the fabric fit around the transition area on the elevator between the large and small tube. A beer and some tent time brought me to the conclusion that if I don't do something with it, I'll be reminded of the fact each time I walk around the darn thing. So I ripped off the fabric, got some appropriate materials and made a smooth, straight transition from the large tube tapering back to the trailing edge of the elevator. Much happier with the end result.

It's pretty hard to have everything work without some occasional backpeddling.

I will second this opinion. My series 5 elevator was the first piece I covered and I did not like how the small to large tube transition (near the fuselage) worked out.

I have a series 7 which needs to be covered and I'll be filling that area with wood/hysol/superfill.

Dave S
04-07-2023, 08:56 AM
Alex,

Man, I am with you on that! Our S7 is an earlier model with the manual trim; but, that does not change the area of attention. Three photos attached including: 1) the fill area, 2) "in the suede" (primered) and 3) what it looks like after covering and paint. Outboard ends of elevator similar.

Jerrytex
04-07-2023, 11:14 AM
I ran into the same issue withe Pitot Mast. I am glad your's cleared. I had to cut about 3/4" off the mast. Was a huge PITA trying to Squarely cut the mast while mounted to the wing while working upside down.

Looking back, I think I would have mounted it inside the lift strut like others have done.

Project is coming along and Looking good.

Hoping the brake line fittings made it to you........

PapuaPilot
04-07-2023, 08:49 PM
My Garmin pitot tube came close to the horizontal stab when it is in the full up position, just like yours.

For the transport hole alignment issue couldn't you just add a short piece of steel to the yellow fork with a bolt and drill a new hole that lines up with the wing?

bbs428
04-08-2023, 01:57 AM
My Garmin pitot tube came close to the horizontal stab when it is in the full up position, just like yours.

For the transport hole alignment issue couldn't you just add a short piece of steel to the yellow fork with a bolt and drill a new hole that lines up with the wing?

Thanks Phil, yes that would work as well. I think the longer bolt and some washers will get the job done. Any welding and I would have more work - I'm getting lazy!

My other concern is the flaperon hinges are hard up on the skin as they are. Any jarring during transport will damage them. I would like a little more clearance, so I have to extend the flaperon slot or hold the wing off even more than it is. I think I'll hold the wing off a bit more, as that will satisfy all the concerns. I'll gain clearance for the lift strut and the hinges without a flaperon slot appendectomy!
I don't know how much stress is imparted on these hinge slots while in transport until it happens, which I don't want to find out the hard way!

bbs428
04-11-2023, 02:45 AM
Shifted gears to work on the windscreen.

Lot's of anxious moments trimming and drilling on very expensive acrylic. A couple of old office chairs came in handy as a windscreen support while I whittled away with my Dremel and carbide cutter. That and a 4" grinder with a cutoff wheel made the most headway. Just got to keep your wits about you as a slip up could be bad.

Made up a little drill jig for the butt-ribs out of a stir stick and a chunk of old 2"x2". Worked well. Played with the math to get all the spacing correct on all the fasteners.

Since the boot cowl on my plane is removable, I had to deviate from the plans a little. My 4 glare shield clips are mounted to the windscreen separately. I used some left-over rib tape, so it won't vibrate or make unwanted noise. I'm using Skybolt fasteners, and the receptacles are mounted to the backside of the windscreen for the boot cowl.
Will be some fun to rivet them to the acrylic! Having good access to all the electronics under the boot cowl without dealing with the windscreen might come in handy! More on that later.

Used two layers of the black padded tape and added a bevel grind to the windscreen edge to get the proper clearance for the wing. It overlaps about .25 inch.

It's good to re-read all the instructions. I seemed to always find a little nugget of info that eluded me on the 1st read!



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Geek
04-11-2023, 07:03 AM
Shifted gears to work on the windscreen. ............I'm using Skybolt fasteners, and the receptacles are mounted to the backside of the windscreen for the boot cowl. Will be some fun to rivet them to the acrylic!


Riveting those receptacles to the windscreen - you be takin' da walk on da wild side!!! Your definition of fun and mine are really different!! But I like your drill jig - that's trick. Looks good and will be interesting to hear how your 'system' works out. I too am not riveting my boot cowl for exactly the same reason. Knowing I will have to work on it later has been quite the influencer on a lot of my build.

Gary

alexM
04-11-2023, 08:14 AM
Trimming and drilling the windshield is one of those tasks which has rented some space in my head for a while. That looks great.

Have you tried riveting to some scraps to see how it works out? I would not expect it to go well, but I would love to be wrong.

I'm about to trim my boot cowl and install it. I didn't realize "permanent" was normal.

jiott
04-11-2023, 12:47 PM
Just FYI, I "permanently" riveted my boot cowl like the manual said. It has been on now for 10 years with never a need to remove it. The reason for that is that I installed my instrument panel and wiring service loops so that I can rotate the panel (I did not use a hinge, it just rotates around the bottom edge) into the cockpit so that it lays flat upside down with great access to all the stuff behind the panel. I have done this about 3 times in the 10 years to install new stuff like ADS-B, new keyswitch, and new voltage regulator. Just another way to skin the cat.

Geek
04-11-2023, 04:05 PM
........I'm about to trim my boot cowl and install it. I didn't realize "permanent" was normal.

Not sure about this Alex but think that 'permanent' used to be normal and then screwing it on became accepted as normal as well. I know that the factory builds now are screwed on using #6 machine screws and nuts. Mine is screwed on for the same reason Brett is doing his - maintenance later on.

G

bbs428
04-11-2023, 07:04 PM
Just FYI, I "permanently" riveted my boot cowl like the manual said. It has been on now for 10 years with never a need to remove it. The reason for that is that I installed my instrument panel and wiring service loops so that I can rotate the panel (I did not use a hinge, it just rotates around the bottom edge) into the cockpit so that it lays flat upside down with great access to all the stuff behind the panel. I have done this about 3 times in the 10 years to install new stuff like ADS-B, new keyswitch, and new voltage regulator. Just another way to skin the cat.

Thanks for the insight, Jim. It's appreciated!

None of us new builders have any real world, live with it experience. I've used Skybolt fasteners on all my cowling, so at this point it's hard to get off the wagon now.
Tbh - I think I just like to do things the extra hard way, so it feels like it's better, when in reality it's like you said -
"Just another way to skin the cat."

alexM
04-11-2023, 07:33 PM
Just FYI, I "permanently" riveted my boot cowl like the manual said. It has been on now for 10 years with never a need to remove it. The reason for that is that I installed my instrument panel and wiring service loops so that I can rotate the panel (I did not use a hinge, it just rotates around the bottom edge) into the cockpit so that it lays flat upside down with great access to all the stuff behind the panel. I have done this about 3 times in the 10 years to install new stuff like ADS-B, new keyswitch, and new voltage regulator. Just another way to skin the cat.

I'd sort of like to see this skinless cat actually. Not the boot cowl because I get that part, but do you have any pictures of the instrument panel rotated about the bottom edge?

PapuaPilot
04-12-2023, 09:10 AM
On my Model 5 I modified the original 2-piece (top/bottom) cowling into 5 pieces. I used Dzus fasters on every piece so it can be removed in a matter of minutes. This opens everything from the doorposts forward. I can also just open the engine cowlings or cowlings plus the top portion of the boot cowl. This makes it supper easy for inspections or modifications.

The downside is that the firewall and windshield are not completely sealed.


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jiott
04-12-2023, 09:47 AM
Alex, here are some photos:
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alexM
04-12-2023, 09:58 AM
Jim,
I see now. You made a set of legs to support the panel while you're working on it. Very clever.

Also, I notice that you put your throttle and mixture below the panel. I was going to do the same thing until Eric and I flew Nate's plane eastward. With enough time to stare at it while flying I thought the ergonomics might be bad. Are you happy with that location? It would sure make it easier to work on the panel if I didn't have to deal with those cables.

jiott
04-12-2023, 04:51 PM
Yes, my throttle and choke cables are mounted on a little subpanel that can easily be unscrewed from the main panel with two bolts.
The ergonomics of the cables are just fine now for 10 years. My tilt panel is one of the reasons I mounted the cables separately, although I have seen many others do the same without the tilt panel. Actually, I believe the comfort is better having the throttle down lower.

Eric Page
04-13-2023, 10:23 AM
Very enlightening thread, gents; thanks. Jim, is your sub-panel simply a piece of aluminum angle?

jiott
04-13-2023, 10:58 AM
Eric, yes it is.

bbs428
04-13-2023, 09:54 PM
Windscreen turned out nice. The 10 back bolts by the turtleback are a pita. Skybolt fasteners are sweet. They are nice to work with and look sharp. The fastener with the bail on it is for the turtleback.

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Worked through an issue that bit me in the posterior. Had to massage the Alt. bracket to gain clearance, as it's higher than the pulley and off to the side where there is little to no clearance. The top cowling hit the forward end of the Alt. right at the big lug. Some of geometry, and a carbide cutter and we are back in business.
Luckily there is a lot of material to work with and the "new and improved" Alt. bracket gains the necessary clearance. 1st pic is before. 2nd is after surgery. This rotates the big lug to the 11 o'clock position looking from the front and brings it in towards the center of the cowl. We gain more clearance the further we come inboard due to the spinner fairing.
Nothing ruins your day like realizing your top cowl doesn't fit and having to re-engineer a part that should have been right to begin with. I'll post an update in "Product Reviews."
To be fair, it was still advantageous for me to buy the Rotec unit as it was very cost effective compared to the Rotax unit. Not so much for someone without access to the proper tools or comfortable doing this sort of stuff.

I guess that's why it's called "EXPERIMENTAL" Lol. ;)

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bbs428
04-17-2023, 08:32 PM
Turtledeck is a pita but going together.

A high-speed carbide cutter made short work of the complex cuts up forward. Lot's of on, off, cut and check till the fit is right. This acrylic is different than the windscreen. During the big cuts for the hinge, I found that this material likes to melt when using a Dremel cutoff wheel! Had to dial down the rpm, spray the cut area with the water/dawn solution, and make several passes to make the cuts. Definatly not a fun part of the build. You need nerves of steel.
I did use a new hacksaw blade to make the vertical cut through the side hole area to keep the cut as nice/thin as possible. Starting the cut was the worst of it. Helped it out with a small initial cut from the Dremel and a thin diamond wheel. Slow going but feasible. The same spray solution helped coax the hinge into position... that and a rubber mallet! The end of the hinge is hollow so I might add some clear silicone to seal it.

I have not installed any camlocks/Skybolt's or do any hole cutting, that's for tomorrow. I'll double check the placement and make sure it all works correctly.
The flaperon assembly was a big help with an exact placement of the hole in the turtledeck.

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Geek
04-18-2023, 05:23 AM
For a man who just got done riveting directly to his windscreen, if this cut took 'nerves of steel' then I need to go buy more bourbon!! Nice work Brett!

Gary

bbs428
04-18-2023, 09:30 AM
For a man who just got done riveting directly to his windscreen, if this cut took 'nerves of steel' then I need to go buy more bourbon!! Nice work Brett!

Gary

Thanks Gary.

As they say - "It's all in the "squeeze"! ;)

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jrevens
04-18-2023, 09:42 AM
Turtledeck is a pita but going together.

A high-speed carbide cutter made short work of the complex cuts up forward. Lot's of on, off, cut and check till the fit is right. This acrylic is different than the windscreen. During the big cuts for the hinge, I found that this material likes to melt when using a Dremel cutoff wheel! …

That’s because it’s not acrylic, it’s polycarbonate (Lexan). Tougher & not as easy to crack, but also softer & scratches more easily.

bbs428
04-18-2023, 05:44 PM
That’s because it’s not acrylic, it’s polycarbonate (Lexan). Tougher & not as easy to crack, but also softer & scratches more easily.


Sure enough. Nice catch. I thought it was the same, lol, not sure why I didn't catch on.

Just to let you know - This flip top turtledeck idea of yours John has to be one of the best upgrades ever for the Kitfox! It's appreciated!

bbs428
04-29-2023, 02:13 AM
Finished work on the turtledeck. Not sure why the hardware in the kit was so different than the rest of the windscreen, so a quick call to AC Spruce and I replaced the hardware.
Decided to get the split seals for the flaperon torque tubes. (Thanks Jeff "jmodguy") Turtledeck Slot Seal - Page 2 (teamkitfox.com) (https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/threads/9331-Turtledeck-Slot-Seal/page2?highlight=split+seal)
As others have found out, A small precise hole in the turtleback will not allow you to remove it from the aircraft due to the windscreen lip it fits under in front. You need to be able to slide it back to remove it.

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Finished the dash. Lot's of fun as it need to go in and out countless times. My back was not happy but, in the end, it turned out nice. It ended up at about 1 1/2 inches of overhang.

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My taxi cam seemed to like this spot on the lower cowl. It has 170 deg. lens, so it looks good from the cockpit. Used vhb tape to mount it. If it works well there, I'll fasten it down with some proper hardware.

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Was able to use my airbrush on some parts. It's a simple kit that gets the job done. Was nice to paint without using the paint booth!

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jiott
04-29-2023, 11:02 AM
I agree about the airbrush, I have a cheap HF airbrush but it works fine on small parts and touchup.

bbs428
04-29-2023, 11:18 PM
Decided to place a scuff plate on the pilot's side with some spare .020 aluminum sheet. Used 3m super77 spray adhesive to bond it.
My size 13 shoes will not be kind to the stock floor boards so hopefully this will help.

Installed the stabilizer access panels to check for fit and finish. It all lined up and looked good. Another small victory! Lol.

Added one gallon of fuel to the main tanks to check for leaks. None so far. I did a successful leak check and balloon pressure check a few years back when I installed the tanks. Was glad nothing had changed!
Hit the start button for the 1st time and the Sky-Tec starter really kicks this engine over. I was glad Hal Stockman suggested to replace the old Rotax starter a few years back when he overhauled it.

I will be able to go for a full start soon. I needed a reliable way of moving the plane around. It has certainly gained some weight and my shop is on a slight rise. I wanted a multitasker that I could use when trailering as well as moving in and out of the shop. So I picked up this portable winch powered by my battery-operated drill. We shall see if it works out. I'm optimistic, but you never know until applied.

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bbs428
05-06-2023, 07:38 PM
Enjoyed a successful attempt at a removable boot cowl seal. It's pretty low tech but it worked.

I touched up the firewall with 220/320 sandpaper where contact is made with the boot cowl to give it some tooth. I sanded the boot cowl smooth where contact is made to the firewall. I then piped out the polyurethane sealant onto the firewall. Thinner near the fasteners, thicker everywhere else. I placed a nice coat of wheel bearing grease on the boot cowl where contact is made with the plane, making sure the Skybolt receptacles were greased up. After installing the boot cowl, I fastened it all down just snug. I tidied it all up, trying not to fiddle with it too much. Best to let it cure then clean up because you start getting diminishing returns playing in wet sealant!
Took 5 days to cure enough to take it off. Popped right off with no fuss. Still a bit gooey in the middle of the thicker sections but it came out better than I expected. I used a paint prep.cleaner/dewaxer to keep my hands clean and to shape some fillets with my fingers. Went through a bunch of paper towels and thought I was nuts halfway through the ordeal!

There are some spots that need more sealant, so I'll wait for this to cure totally (approx. 5 more days) before doing any touch up. The red grease wiped off the cured sealant no problem.

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bbs428
05-06-2023, 08:18 PM
Had a milestone today, our 1st engine start!

Had to shut down early due to low oil pressure. I'm guessing that I still have air in the system. I did this a few months ago and thought I was good to go. Had 6-10 psi at 2500rpm. So, we shut it down and put it back in the shop. I have to go through the procedure once again.
The engine started very quickly, was smooth and sounded great! Took me by surprise, Lol.
AFR gauge worked and read 10.9 @ 2500 rpm. Could not do anything else until the pressure problem is solved, but it's all good! Another step closer.

My local DAR has bumped me up the schedule, it's now on July 10th.


https://youtu.be/Zy8kb6Fm2w4

Geek
05-07-2023, 06:22 AM
Had a milestone today, our 1st engine start! ............My local DAR has bumped me up the schedule, it's now on July 10th.

Brett - Exciting on the engine start and certain you'll run the oil pressure issue to ground for sure. You're going to be busy in May cause I happen to know you're booked up for a bit in June and 10 July will come quick. Then I guess you'll have to fly the plane and get bugs all over that paint eh?

Thanks for the report on the firewall seal. I am still looking at options but now you given me one that we know works. A bonus.

Good job shipmate!

Gary

DesertFox4
05-07-2023, 02:23 PM
Congrats on first engine start Brett. Most assuredly a large milestone.

bbs428
05-07-2023, 03:27 PM
Thanks guys, appreciate the kind words.

For some apparent reason only known to the creator, I had no ground on the oil pressure sender. Ohmed out all three wires and bingo, an open on the ground wire.
Now at 520 rpm (starter rpm) I now have 20 psi vs 4psi. I feel pretty confident when I run the engine next time, I'll be in the green!

I feel mucho bettero that I had good oil pressure the whole time! :)

alexM
05-07-2023, 03:49 PM
I'm glad the oil pressure issue was easily resolved.

Back a couple of posts you put up this picture. I'm just starting to locate all of the electrical components, so I'm going back through build threads to see what the smart guys did.

It looks to me like you have two battery contactors, one in front and one behind the firewall. Is that because you have two batteries or am I not seeing things correctly?



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bbs428
05-07-2023, 08:33 PM
Yeah, I'm so smart I have to do things 2 or 3 times to get it right! Lol. The really smart guys are all flying. My build has been ongoing for over 5 years now!

To your question - I use the same style continuous duty solenoid to switch on the primary 45 amp. alternator. Secondary is the stock Rotax alt. Only one battery atm. If I need tail weight, I may add a 2nd battery vs a dead weight lead ingot.
Weight and balance calculation is happening very soon, and I am very curious as to how much and the balance range!

Eric Page
05-07-2023, 08:56 PM
I use the same style continuous duty solenoid to switch on the primary 45 amp. alternator.
Is the contactor switching the alternator's B lead? Does the alternator not have an externally accessible connection to its field winding?

Dave S
05-08-2023, 05:48 AM
Brett,

Thanks for sharing the video of your first engine start. First start is always a hallmark event in the build process for each of us and seeing your plane running brings back a lot of memories.




Had a milestone today, our 1st engine start!

Had to shut down early due to low oil pressure. I'm guessing that I still have air in the system. I did this a few months ago and thought I was good to go. Had 6-10 psi at 2500rpm. So, we shut it down and put it back in the shop. I have to go through the procedure once again.
The engine started very quickly, was smooth and sounded great! Took me by surprise, Lol.
AFR gauge worked and read 10.9 @ 2500 rpm. Could not do anything else until the pressure problem is solved, but it's all good! Another step closer.

My local DAR has bumped me up the schedule, it's now on July 10th.


https://youtu.be/Zy8kb6Fm2w4

bbs428
05-08-2023, 09:16 PM
Sent an email to Hal Stockman on the low oil pressure and to run a few things by him and see if I needed to do more than I was doing.
He rebuilt the 912 and installed the Zipper kit, Jan 2019. Five minutes later Hal called me and chatted it up like we talked every day. (I hadn't spoken to him in three years).
Was great to have his insight and he shared a lot of personal 912ul knowledge with me.
So great to have him in our aviation community.
I feel fortunate to know Hal and to have such a great working relationship!

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In other news... Hal dead-sticks onto a local road. Glad to see Hal is ok!

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Delta Whisky
05-09-2023, 06:11 PM
yes sir - glad to hear that he is OK.

bbs428
05-09-2023, 06:58 PM
Oil pressure problem resolved.

I was thinking on how the pressure sender responded to a good ground. The pressure went from 6/10 to 18psi once the ground was fixed.
Then after looking at the G3x Rotax sensor pages, it finally occurred to me that the Kavlico 150 psig oil pressure sender did not need the 40 ohm resistor that the Rotax sender does on the pcb board! After I removed the 40-ohm resistor on the hi input it read correctly and easily achieved over 50 psi windmilling the prop.

Time for a beer! ;)

Jason Murphy
05-10-2023, 10:24 AM
Brett, Attached is a link to the advisory circular for the "Additional Pilot Program for Phase IFlight Test"

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/1025667

bbs428
05-10-2023, 04:46 PM
Thanks Jason. I'll check it out.

Delta Whisky
05-10-2023, 05:36 PM
Brett - I may be putting my nose in your business but you should see this AC called out in paragraph 19 of your airworthiness certificate. I used it and really liked doing so: helped with meeting my insurance coverage requirement, reduced the workload and made the task much more enjoyable.

BTW - the recently released phased based phase I test requirements (AC 90-89C) can be inserted in your certificate. Point your DAR to paragraph 2.1.8.

Good luck,

Darrel

bbs428
05-15-2023, 01:45 AM
Thanks Darrel looks like some great info. I appreciate you giving me the heads up!

bbs428
05-15-2023, 02:00 AM
I ditched the split seal. Too much $$ and dealing with the six screws, three for just one side of the seal was a bridge to far for me.

Found these 2" firewall membrane grommet's for under 10 bucks. Thay really work well for the flaperon linkage seals. No other hardware needed!
The offset hole captures the seal when in use and when you need to remove the turtleback, the membrane is captive on the linkage so you can't lose or drop it. They are super flexible and easy to work with. The rubber is a little sticky when it's dry, so just a tiny bit of Vaseline or silicon grease helps a lot in getting them to seat.
Turtleback removes easily. I put a folded microfiber towel between the turtleback halves before removal to keep from scratching it.

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airlina
05-15-2023, 01:48 PM
Brett , nice solution to the flaperon/ turtledeck transition , nice and clean. From your photos i see you installed the phenolic bearings . I see you're plane is a '98 Series 5 Outback , mine is a '99 Series 5 Outback , and even though those bearings were supplied in my kit , the factory did away with them about when I was starting mine . they determined they were now longer needed and didn't have a purpose anymore. Been 20 years flying mine and i can verify they don't have a purpose because I didn't install them . Bruce N199CL

bbs428
05-16-2023, 12:33 AM
I knew there was a reason I had not riveted my flaperon linkage together!
I'm not sure how this escaped me, as this topic had to be talked about while I have been building. Did you cut off the metal support plate as well, or leave it?
I'm always looking for reasons to reduce weight... my own included, lol, although I'll have to repaint them, as I have polished the metal where it makes contact with the bearing.

I appreciate the heads-up on the bearings and your kind words on the flaperon seal Bruce, Thank you!

PapuaPilot
05-16-2023, 08:19 AM
I also eliminated those plastic bearings for the same reason. A couple of years ago I cut off the angle brackets that hold them to save weight and they made it more challenging to fold the wings.

bbs428
05-25-2023, 01:49 AM
Agreed Phil. I did the same thing a few days ago. After I cut mine off, I used some white 3m, 5200 polyurethane sealant to make it all pretty again.

Getting used to the winch. It sure makes it easier to muscle the plane back into the shop!

Empty weight came out to be 803.5lbs. @ 12.26 cg. I'm happy about that!
I was guessing I'd be in at 850lbs. The earthX battery, NR prop, the small 6.00x6 tubeless tires and the Beringer wheels took a lot of weight off.

Static engine run rpm with the NR prop set at 16 deg. is 5400. I'll have to dial in another 1/2 deg or more to get the static rpm down a bit. Balancing the prop with the Dynavibe was easy but tedious. I initially used washers under the spinner screws. After it was balanced, I used wheel weights. I do not have a lip around the spinner, so the weights had to go inside and under the fastener tabs. Had to start all over again! Lol. I was finally able to get it to .03 IPS @ 5400rpm and .02 IPS @ 1620rpm.

The primary 45-amp alternator output is too high @14.6vdc. The EarthX battery likes 14.2 with 14.5 at the most. So, it looks like I'll have to modify the alt. and remove the internal reg. and set up an external regulator. Finding an internal reg. with the output I need is a challenge, as most are set at 14.5vdc. and tbh - the external will be the best solution as it's safer and adjustable. More testing and modifying is needed before the 1st flight.

The AFR is proving to be a great tuning tool. Initially, I had 9.5 at idle and after a few adjustments it's 13.8. Mid-range is still fat @ 10.5 but at 5400rpm it was 14.2. Idle is noticeably smoother now that it's leaned out a bit. I have 2 hrs. on the engine and it's running very well. Pulls like a freight train!

Setting up the G3x has been fun and challenging. All my engine gauges are set up now and all are working correctly. I have oil press., oil temp, water temp, cyl. head temp, 1 and 2, volt, and amp.

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Jerrytex
06-15-2023, 01:18 PM
https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32217&d=1682833388&thumb=1


What did you use to make the blocks on the pedals?

bbs428
06-15-2023, 03:59 PM
https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32217&d=1682833388&thumb=1


What did you use to make the blocks on the pedals?

Rudder Pedal Extensions by AntiSplatAero.com | Anti Splat Aero LLC (https://antisplataero.com/products/rudder-pedal-extensions)

I added the lightning holes to the stock rudder pedals and the Anti-Splat blocks.

bbs428
06-22-2023, 06:27 AM
After dorking around with the wing cuff molds (I made two sets) I decided I didn't want to invest the time and $$ to vacuum bag. So, I used the molds to make a 2d construction paper template. I refined the template then cut out a set of cuffs from some thin, scrap sheet aluminum. They are small, very light and fit well. I wanted to cover the leading edge of the windscreen and keep it flush with the outside edge. I tried to keep the fastener lined up with the other windscreen fasteners. I'm no metal fabricator, so they were a challenge to get them to look right and fit right.
Be careful that you tape the sharp edge of the cuff as you fit it to the plane. You could cause a scratch on your windscreen or paint! Ask me how I know!

I used some 5200 sealant to make a gasket on the back side of the cuff as the seal that came with the kit did not work well. When they are totally cured in a few days, I'll paint the sealant if needed. The thin layer of 5200 makes a nice seal.

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Jason Murphy
07-07-2023, 08:25 PM
Rudder Pedal Extensions by AntiSplatAero.com | Anti Splat Aero LLC (https://antisplataero.com/products/rudder-pedal-extensions)

I added the lightning holes to the stock rudder pedals and the Anti-Splat blocks.

Brett, what did you use to prime your center console? I am looking to either prime my header tank and I would like to paint my console and panel

bbs428
07-08-2023, 04:35 AM
Heya Jason,

I used a 2-part epoxy grey automotive primer. Reminded me of the grey that all our military planes have so I kept it as the final paint. Has a nice non-reflective matt finish. Easy to use. Mixed 50:50

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On my fuselage tubes and header tank, I used the white primer. If you're using a topcoat paint that is translucent such as some reds and yellows, then use the white primer.

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bbs428
07-17-2023, 04:22 AM
We are on week 5 of "maybe next week" until the DAR can be here. So...

Chase (Sky Pirate) and I have been keeping busy modifying a damaged boat trailer to haul the Kitfox with. We had to straighten out the frame with a hydraulic ram and twist it back to being true. Passenger side spindle was bent so it was replaced. Purchased two, barely used, 15" tire/wheel combo and a nice set of aluminum fenders from the same source.
We used some scrap steel, a 4" grinder, saws all, a tape measure, a wire welder and some good Ol' Yankee ingenuity to create our monster. Proud to say we have about $350.00 bucks in it, not counting the scrap steel!
I have enough left-over polyurethane paint from the plane to make it look pretty. I still have to mount the tail-through-bolt devise and some weld-on tie down rings. I'll be using basket straps for the main wheel hold-downs.

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Geek
07-17-2023, 05:52 AM
Finally!! The answer to the age old question of "what do you get when you have a tractor, grinder, sawsall and a welder?" Nice job Brett but glad you have paint left over so that the trailer will look almost as good as the plane!! Sorry to hear about your DAR's rubber calendar.

Gary

DesertFox4
07-17-2023, 08:19 AM
Brett, nice job. That’s the perfect trailer for transporting a light little aircraft.
I had a nice converted boat trailer years ago that came with my first Kitfox, a model 3. Wish I kept it.

Chase (Sky Pirate) and I have been keeping busy modifying a damaged boat trailer to haul the Kitfox with.
Also you got to work with the one , the only “SkyPirate”. Chase can make anything. We miss him on these forums. His new aircraft project
is a thing of beauty. Hope he’s flying it soon.

bbs428
07-27-2023, 02:23 PM
We crossed one of the finish lines today. Inspection went really well with no discrepancies noted. Passed with flying colors!
Figures that It's hotter than blue blazes here in flyover country, so sometime in the next few weeks she'll fly for the 1st time!

I'll post it all soon!

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Geek
07-27-2023, 04:00 PM
Awesome Brett!!! Only thing better will be that first flight with you at the stick. Hope you get some good weather for it or get up early in the morning for a 'quickie'.

G

DesertFox4
07-27-2023, 05:46 PM
Great news Brett. Congrats on a successful inspection. Good luck with your first flight.

Navycposd
07-27-2023, 10:26 PM
That is Fantastic Brett! Congrats, you earned it by building a fantastic aircraft.
Now on to Phase 1

alexM
07-27-2023, 11:54 PM
Thanks for the motivation to keep plugging away. Best wishes with the first flight.

bbs428
07-28-2023, 04:02 AM
After some careful thought and angst about spending even more $$$, I opted for the B&C 40-amp alt and the LR3D-14 controller/regulator.
Seemed prudent as we're so dependent on the electrical system. Backup is the stock Rotax alt.
Runup testing shows a solid 14.1v @ 4k rpm. Hope to see 14.2v at 5.8k rpm. It's an easy adjustment if needed.

The NR prop is wonderful, the spinner - not so much. It's not true on the backplate and wobbles a bit. Not really happy about that as it looks ridiculous. I'm making a marking jig to find where I have to make the adjustments. So far, it's been a pita. Hard to get it right as they are very small adjustments.

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bbs428
08-04-2023, 01:57 PM
Had a nice talk with the folks at Travers Insurance. Pleasantly surprised as the Quote came in under what I thought it would be for a bare minimum of 25 hours in type. Takes effect Aug. 15. Under 3.5k a year for 135k. Plane is covered while trailering.

Still working on the trailer. Tail brace is morphing into the fab job from hell, but all the hard stuff is done. Just have the last two braces to weld up. Need more epoxy primer!
Still have too fab-up an elevator gust lock. Some 1x4 and a couple of foam pool noodles should do the trick. Anyone have a better mousetrap to share?

Tail barely cleared the bay door in the shop! Had to lower the trailer down to lowest setting to get it in. Makes it nice to work on. I can only work half days in the shop as the heat is too much after 1pm. My two, window air-con units cannot keep up during the sunny afternoons!

I will be moving the plane to the airport in the next two weeks. Task based phase 1 will be fun. Plan on big circles around the airport at about 4k ft. Should be about 15 deg. cooler up there. What a treat to be here at last! :D
I would really like this hot, humid weather to subside a bit, but it is what it is - Summer in Southwest Mo.

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Jerrytex
08-04-2023, 02:48 PM
Looks great!

We are battling the heat here in Texas as well. 6:15 to 7:15am is my flying window until it cools down.

On the elevator gust locks, I used 3/4 PVC with a series of 90's to make a tight "U" on one end and then caps on the other with pipe insulation. On the open end, I used toggle bolts drilled through both pipe ends near the caps to clamp it down. One on each side.

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