Insurance quotes

[bogmonster]

Has anyone quoted insurance lately? I have a M4 speedster with Rotax 912ul.

Have the flying clowns screwed up everything for us?

For the past 4 years I had liability only for 300, this year it more than doubled. I had 0 hours tailwheel and 0 make model when I first got the plane. I’m only 48 so it’s not an age thing. I just added my IFR rating and have 100+ TW/kitfox hours. No accident history. Perfect credit score.

I wanted to add my daughter to my policy, 19, 150hrs, almost IFR, TW endorsed, 10 hrs make/model and liability goes to almost 1k and they want a cfi checkout. With hull, it goes to almost 2k, with 2500 deductible. What’s the purpose of hull at that rate? I set the hull at only 20k.

Maybe it’s the fact I fly skis for 2 months?

frustrated,

Mike

[avidflyer]

Hi Mike, my liability insurance doubled last year as well on my Avid Flyer. The Chief with hull insurance I'm half owner in stayed the same though. I have Falcon ins. Last summer I was going to put my flying partner onto my Avid insurance. They wanted him to get something like 3 hrs with a CFI. I was able to convince them to accept 5 hrs with me and then 5 or 10 solo before passengers. The increase in my liability had happened several months before the discussions about putting my partner onto the policy so that had nothing to do with raising my rates. Mn does have a state run risk insurance plan that is very low priced and meets the legal requirements. To bad it is only for planes up to 1150 gross weight so you probably can't use it. I may go that way this spring with my Avid. Here is a link to that insurance website. Look at the eleventh one down on the list, it's for Light Sport aircraft but it's only for passenger liability, which is all Mn requires apparently. JImChuk https://www.mjua.org/applications--resources.html

[airlina]

Mike, Don't feel singled out, because I just went thru the same thing in the fall. I had been with Falcon ins. (liability only-at $295) for many years and the premium was always the same until last fall, it jumped up 53%. Of course i called and asked what gives ,and was told that is the new trend for aviation insurance. That wasn't acceptable to me , so I shopped around and was getting the same , sometimes higher quotes with the same story. I was getting close to dropping it completely and quit giving rides , until a buddy told me to try Avemco and while still higher at $355 for liability only ,it was my best choice it I wanted to insure.Flying history and time in type don't seem to matter , as I have 900 accident/incident free hours in my Kitfox . Bruce N199CL

[bogmonster]

Hi Mike, my liability insurance doubled last year as well on my Avid Flyer.


Wonder if I can just lower my gross weight and go with that. My model 4 is only 1200 anyways and 99.9% of the time I fly solo so I'm less than 1000 lbs with myself and full gas.

MJH

[avidflyer]

A guy on the Avid Forum found out about this insurance, and told me about it. He had no Avid or Kitfox time, and they quoted him something like $210 a year and no CFI sign off. You could contact them and see what they say I suppose. JImChuk

[Hockeystud87]

I just did the whole insurance thing and have avemco. I have hull at 45K and liability. I had 7 hours of TW and 0 in a kitfox and ~150 TT. They quoted me at $2300. I had to do 10 hours of dual instruction. Once I got to like 21 hours of time in my Kitfox it dropped to $2100. Still expensive and I have the hull pretty high but I want to make sure if I bang up grandpas KF that I can get it all back to 100%. And being a low time TW guy i'm not ignorant to the fact I'm high risk.

The way avemco does their calculations is in a tier system. For home built aircraft they add up your TT, TW, Retracts, and Type time. All those numbers get to a total number.

Tier 1 I think is 0-199
Tier 2 is 200-599
Tier 3 is 600-???? A big number

So if you fly a kitfox with amphibians you are essentially getting 4 "hours" for every 1 you fly.
I fly a kitfox on wheels so I get everything but the retracts time.

So now you can calculate what tier you're in.

[jmodguy]

I was quoted 1900/yr for my Kitfox 5. $50k hull and no deductible. I don’t feel so bad now...!

[efwd]

My quotes for 70K hull have been similar to what you guys are stating. Check this out though. I believe my numbers exclude first flight. In fact I believe it doesn't kick in until somewhere around 10 hours. Dont quote me on that but you can quote me on this. If I want phase one totally included it will cost me $5000. Only one company offers that. I have 250 hrs, commercial, instrument, 14hr in type and tailwheel endorsed. They still want me to get current with one hour in type before first flight. That was in the plans anyhow so no biggy.

[Av8r3400]

Falcon shopped me around this year for a new carrier because the one I had went up from ~$1200 to ~$1400.

My new renewal was $1080 for $50k hull and $1M liability, $0 deductible.

[jiott]

Larry, what company was your new renewal with? I know its thru Falcon, but what carrier did they end up with?

[Av8r3400]

I just looked it up. USAIG is my "new" carrier through Falcon.

[ken nougaret]

Old Republic through BWI Fly. $1012. 50k hull value.

[PapuaPilot]

Surprisingly, mine stayed the same with a January renewal of $1032 for $65K hull, $1M liability, $0 deductible. I'm with Old Republic through AOPA. I switched a couple of years ago from Falcon.

[tracstarr]

Can't really compare apples to apples, but here in Canada I paid 1200 for work in progress that converts to $1m 3rd party, 120k hull, 1 pax with 1k deductible. I will probably change my coverage once flying, but this is the minimum I could do to basically have builders insurance.

[Hockeystud87]

Those of you that are around or under $1300 what are your TT and TW ?

[ken nougaret]

TT 950. Tailwheel 380. But price was the same 180 hrs ago.

[PapuaPilot]

Those of you that are around or under $1300 what are your TT and TW ?

When I got my quote they said I would get lowest rate possible. Currently I'm at-
9700+ TT
1000+ TW
3000+ Retractable (mostly on amphibious floats)
3000+ Turbine (PT6)

[Av8r3400]

I am Private and Instrument rated. The instrument rating helps considerably with insurance rates.

~1500 Total Time
~900 Tailwheel/Kitfox time

[airlina]

This information is an eye opener because quotes I received from some the same carriers you guys are using were $1500 and up for $50,000 hull plus liability (this was done fall of 2018). I am a retired airline guy, ATP 19000 total time, approaching 900 hrs Kitfox . Guess they didn't like me, but seriously folks, after following this thread I am going to get some new quotes . Thanks for some good info. Bruce N199CL

[RedRooster]

I just re-insured my Model 4 for $1500 with Falcon. $50,000 hull coverage and $1M liability.
I have about 500 hours in Kitfoxes with TW. Just a Private Pilot license.

[Bartman1959]

I got mine in October 2018, I hadn't flown in over 20 years, had just over 100 hours tt, 20 hours in Cubs, $60,000 hull, and it costs me $1700 and change.

[Hockeystud87]

Bart what was your coverage? You have hull?

[btjenkins85]

My renewal was in October and insurance went down $80 to $950. Hull value is set at 35k, 1mil liability, 0 deductible. I use falcon agency but the insurance company is Old Republic Aerospace.

ATP 6500TT, 250 tailwheel.

[Wheels]

I'm using Mountain Air out of montana. I"m paying 1200 a year for a Model IV 1200 on skis during the winter. 30k hull full coverage.

[Bartman1959]

Bart what was your coverage? You have hull?

Hull is $60,000 and Liability is $1m.

[Wheels]

My liability is 1M and I have 800 or more tailwheel hours, 750 of that in type.

[Shadowrider]

I got mine in October 2018, I hadn't flown in over 20 years, had just over 100 hours tt, 20 hours in Cubs, $60,000 hull, and it costs me $1700 and change.

Who is your broker and the underwriter?

[jrevens]

I’ve used Falcon for quite a few years. I have the “standard” 1 mil, etc. like most of the replies here, and $60,000 hull w/ no deductible. The quote from Falcon (from Old Republic) increased to $1,406 this year. I then got a quote from BWI - $1,262. My tailwheel time is just under 1,400 hrs.

I like that BWI claims to shop for the best price every year. It seems I’ve had to ask Falcon to do that or it didn’t happen, FWIW.

[ken nougaret]

I use BWI also, and like John says they shop around for you and even offer you the different quotes from others.

[Bartman1959]

Who is your broker and the underwriter?

Jason Wissmiller, Regal Aviation

jason@regalaviation.com


He was recommended to me by Paul at Stick & Rudder

[aviator79]

I'm not sure what actuarial secret sauce is used to determine insurance rates, but where your aircraft is based may have an effect.