912iS wiring

[JMH]

I have started wiring my project after receiving my panel from Advanced Flight Systems. I have the 912iS and I’m installing a Dynon Skyview system. I’m electrically challenged, so I’m struggling with the wiring that must be done by me. Today’s question is related to the Harness Interface Connector or HIC. The diagram provided by Kitfox shows the last three pins on both HIC A and B as CAN 2 LA (maint). Does this mean the are used for maintenance? Do I just leave them out? Or do they get pinned and connected somewhere? I’m sure I will have other questions, but I’ll start here. I’m mapping out the EMS harness
tonight and noticed many of the wires are labeled as “not connected”. How are these wires handled?
Thanks
John
Kitfox S7 SS

[efwd]

All right John, I’ll be honest, Im challenged here too so I bought my harnesses for that display to 912iS interface. What I have is two D sub plugs each wired with several wires. I refered to the 912iS manual and inserted the wires into the HIC pin out listed for each plug and HIC connector. Yes these are hooking up to a diagnostic tool, I believe referred to as a dongle. Dont quote me on that but I believe its right in the manual. Now, maybe Carl will fill you in on the gadget that I believe he has. Or Go onto Trent Palmers last you tube post on the firewall forward install. He explaines the device on there. Pretty cool. I was to intimidated by electrical I figured that thing was going to cause me a great deal more headache than its worth but Im certain to have a headache when faults start popping up. Maybe Ill invest then.

[jiott]

John, I also had many "not connected" wires in my Skyview/EMS system. I just left a reasonable length of wire in these places and coiled them up and zip tied them together and left them be. Its amazing after 5 years how many of them I ended up connecting to some new doo-dad I added later.

[efwd]

Ive got some of those also that I left there as Jim did.

[rosslr]

Yep, the two maintenance wires for from the HIC go to DSubs for downloading the files from Lane A and Lane B - I mounted the two D Subs on the panel and get my friendly LAME to download the files as needed for checking. The dongle from Rotax is about $1k so I cant justify that expense.

Cheers

r

[JMH]

Your posts are appreciated, and I now understand how to proceed. Just for clarification and to help out future builders, I need to take the maintenance pins from HIC A and HIC B and install a D sub connector for each. These connectors should be accessible for future diagnostics. Any information on pin location in the sub connectors?

John

[efwd]

John, I will be able to help you out later. Im heading to work. This evening I can take pics of the professionally built HIC A & B harnesses. I Have these harnesses and Im not even sure if I didn't get these from Kitfox. My manual states I have harnesses supplied but I bought harnesses from a company in England so I have these that are spares. PM me your preferred contact that I can text you or email you pics. I can Identify the different colored wires and what pins they are inserted.

[neville]

The wiring of the HIC to D-sub connectors is shown in the Rotax 912iS Installation manual. Also a adaptor cable should be assembled in order to interface the d-sub connectors with the dongle. It puts the lane A and B maintenance outputs in parallel for entrance into the dongle. That's OK because the software identifies which is data from A and from B. The use of two d-subs for the A and B maintenance output is to keep the two maintenance lanes separate under normal conditions and allowing only one lane to be monitored at a time. However the BUDS program can display both lanes simultaneously. The dongle and a supporting computer is often used while the engine is running for easier detection of faults. And of course the data should be extracted and saved at every 100 hr inspection.

[efwd]

Thanks Neville. When you speak of BUDS, is that the monitor that is mounted in the airframe for real time information or is it just the program used with the Dongle?

[rosslr]

this might help. The pin allocations for the D subs are in installation manual - I think it is 76-00-00 pg 14.

cheer

r

[JMH]

That’s it Ross! Thank you. It would help if I would read the entire manual;)

[rosslr]

No Problem. I think I missed that te first time too. Infact, your issues reminded me that the installation manual has this information in several different spots that I didnt find very helpful and it coud easily be missed. Good luck with the rest of the project.

cheers

ross

[neville]

BUDS Aircraft is the name of the program used with the dongle. Presently version 3.0.1 is in use. It can be downloaded from the Rotax site free (flyrotax.com) There is another program which is only available to persons who have attended a Rotax heavy maintenance school. After the data is downloaded to a memory device it is used to read the error codes and display items of interest in graphs. It is called BUDS reader.

[JMH]

It’s time for my next wiring question. When wiring the backup battery switch and the start power switch, the diagram shows a connection to the regulator board A for each switch. Are the connections just to the side of the regulator with all of the ground connections? So I’m grounding each switch twice? One to the regulator and one to the ground block? I’ve examined the regulator, and see no other connections.
Thanks
John

[efwd]

John, everyone here knows I am no electrician and someone will need to confirm this. It makes sense to ground twice since the second ground in the back up power half, will complete the circuit if the first ground failed.

[PaulSS]

Haha, no Eddie, doubling up for redundancy is not the way this setup works :D

One side of each double pole switch is power, the other is earth (ground). The 912iS has two types of earth; Airframe and Engine (EMS). When you throw either switch, on the earth side of the switch you are connecting the EMS earth (on the Regulator A plate) to Airframe earth.

I've attached a simplified version of my layout. You'll have to ignore the start timer, which takes the place of a start power switch. If you have a look at the Backup Battery switch you can see how the right side of the switch is the 'earth side' and how the top of the switch connects to EMS (Regulator A) and the bottom to Airframe.

I apologise if this wasn't the question you were asking and that I've got the wrong end of the stick.

Edited to add: yes, it looks like you were just asking for the physical location of the grounds. I've attached a diagram of the earth points for EMS grounds on Reg A. Sorry its so small but it's a restriction on the size of the photos we can attach.

[neville]

It all comes about because Alt A/Reg A provide power to the EMS/CPU/Fuel pumps as an isolated system not connected to a/c battery or to a/c ground. Start power must come from the battery system and that has to include a/c ground. Hence the start power switch to momentarily provide battery and a/c ground to the EMS/CPU system. In order to reduce the number of wires passing through the fire wall I ran one a/c ground wire to an insulated post mounted on the avionics tray near the CPU and then a/c ground wires to both the start power and to the back up battery switch from that post.. For 12volts to the switches I came off the main bus bar which of course is a source of 12 volt battery power already through the fire wall.

[efwd]

yup, just confirms I haven't learned a thing about electrical stuff. Thank God that the FAA doesn't test to confirm my knowledge gained from building an airplane under the premise of "for recreation and education" clause. Thanks for the :D though Paul.

[JMH]

Thanks for the information guys. I’m with Eddie, this electricity stuff is hard to get my mind around. Thankfully we have folks out there to answer my questions. I had to get Advanced Flight to send me diagrams to explain the locations of wires on the switches :eek:
Thanks for the help
John

[JMH]

Well, I’m slow working my way through the wiring process. This question is specific to the Rotax 912iS and the Dynon Skyview configuration. Dynon has been helpful in advising me through downloading the 912iS specific software. Of course they won’t be available until Monday. I’m hoping someone who has the Skyview can help me with my question. I can see my EMS widgets that are specific to the 912iS, but they all have a red X over them. What is the next step? How do I make the red X go away? The CAN sensors don’t appear in the sensor mapping menu, pins 36 and 37 (connected to HIC) are empty and can’t be configured manually. I hope this makes sense.
Thanks
John
Kitfox S7 with Rotax 912iS and Skyview HDX

[efwd]

I have a G3X but it is likely the same functionality. I had red Xs until I powered up with the Lane A and Lane B switches. All my instruments then came on line and gave me numbers.

[rtc183]

Power up with the start battery and they will go away.

[JMH]

I must be missing something. I wasn’t able to make the X’s go away. When I turn on the start power, Both Lane lights illuminate and then go off after a few seconds, but the red X’s remain. Dynon tech services didn’t get back with me today. Hoping to hear from them tomorrow.
Thanks for the input
John

[PaulSS]

Have you completed the set up of your Dynon EFIS i.e entered the serial number, allowed it to map the components etc? We had a bunch of Xs on the RV8 I've just tested and they went away once we'd completed the Dynon setup as per their manual.

[JMH]

Thanks for the response. As far as I know I have entered all the necessary info, and have configured the system. I’ve downloaded the files and rebooted the system. I don’t think the HDX can see the sensor signals. On the mapping page of the EMS sensors, no 912iS CAN sensors appear.

John

[PaulSS]

Can you go into the setup menu and tell it to automatically map the sensors? If not, try manually assigning them to the relevant pins.

Sorry I can't be more specific at the moment but I'm sitting in an airport lounge and don't have access to the Dynon manuals. It was very easy with the Lycoming IO-360 but I realise the 912iS is a bit 'unusual'. However, there are plenty of the same arrangements flying and if your wires are plugged in from the CAN bus then the Dynon will be able to see them.....it might just take a bit of persuasion.

Please have a look at the mapping section and see how to manually assign the pins if it won't pick it up automatically.

[JMH]

I’ve looked in the pin mapping menu, the problem is I can see the C37 pins and the C25 pins, but I can’t see the CAN pins. They come into the EMS on the C37 connector on pins 36 and 37 and these pins cannot be manually set. They can be seen on the sensor debugging menu, but all the CAN sensors have zero’s and nan. The 912iS data all comes in through 2 pins and the Dynon somehow is supposed to know what to do with it. My system is not able to see any data input. I’m stalled out until Dynon support gets back to me. They must have a holiday back log , because I haven’t heard from them yet. Thanks for your interest in my situation.
John

[JMH]

I just heard from Dynon. He thinks I may have a problem with my EMS module.
I may have to send it in for testing. I’ll post again when I have more info.

[NinerBikes]

I just heard from Dynon. He thinks I may have a problem with my EMS module.
I may have to send it in for testing. I’ll post again when I have more info.

Any new news or developments on this?

[JMH]

Dynon had me send the EMS module in for testing. It arrived at their facility on Monday. I haven’t heard from them yet, but got an email from UPS notifying me that a package is headed my way from Dynon.

[JMH]

Update on my issue with the 912iS engine module. Dynon received the module, and was unable to reproduce the issue I was having, they put a new main board in it as a precaution and sent it back to me. Turn around on their end was an impressive 48 hours! I installed it hoping it was going to work, and was disappointed when it did not work. I checked my wiring and couldn’t find any problems with the HIC connections to the EMS wiring harness. I was desperate for an answer, so I decided to check continuity from the HIC to the 37 pin connector at the EMS module. I was surprised to find there were no wires connected to pins 36 and 37 of the wiring harness provided by Dynon. The wires (blue and green) that go to those pins were in 34 and 35 positions. Pins 36 and 37 of the module is where the CAN data is transmitted. I reviewed the installation manual, and it states that pins 36 and 37 may be green and blue, or unwired. Mine were unwired. Okay, I apologize for the long explanation. I’m adding this post to keep future builders from going down the same path.
Anyway, I powered up the EFIS after moving the two pins, and it’s working now. Next week, Engine start hopefully.

John

[efwd]

Hmmm. Those PIN numbers ring a very loud bell in my head. I believe I had the same situation when I got my harnesses back from the shop who built them. Fortunately I think I caught it during a significant verification effort when all my harnesses were found to (previously) be messed up.

[NinerBikes]

Update on my issue with the 912iS engine module. Dynon received the module, and was unable to reproduce the issue I was having, they put a new main board in it as a precaution and sent it back to me. Turn around on their end was an impressive 48 hours! I installed it hoping it was going to work, and was disappointed when it did not work. I checked my wiring and couldn’t find any problems with the HIC connections to the EMS wiring harness. I was desperate for an answer, so I decided to check continuity from the HIC to the 37 pin connector at the EMS module. I was surprised to find there were no wires connected to pins 36 and 37 of the wiring harness provided by Dynon. The wires (blue and green) that go to those pins were in 34 and 35 positions. Pins 36 and 37 of the module is where the CAN data is transmitted. I reviewed the installation manual, and it states that pins 36 and 37 may be green and blue, or unwired. Mine were unwired. Okay, I apologize for the long explanation. I’m adding this post to keep future builders from going down the same path.
Anyway, I powered up the EFIS after moving the two pins, and it’s working now. Next week, Engine start hopefully.

John

So the moral of the story is if you bought a Dynon to go with your 912iS, on the harness, check your 36 and 37 pins for wires (blue and green) and for continuity, before hooking up. Good to know.

Maybe the unwired 36 and 37 pins on the harnesses are for 912 ULS models?

[PaulSS]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe both of these were ready-made harnesses. If so, were they both from the same company?

[JMH]

My harness was an off the shelf product made by Dynon. It is adaptable to several different engine systems. On one end of the harness is a 37 pin connector that is ready to go with heat shrink and the wire locations are not visible without taking it apart. The other end is loose wires (color coded). I connected my equipment using a color chart, and assumed the pins all had wires connected. My mistake was assuming, and not verifying.
The harness that Eddie got was custom made in a wiring shop.

John