Has anyone used alternative methods to rib lacing?

[tracstarr]

So my manual states rib lacing is optional - but has anyone actually taken that option? Has anyone used alternate methods of securing the fabric to ribs? Just curious.

[aviator79]

If I recall correctly, the manual hints that it may not be required, but strongly recommends that you do it. There's no good reason not to do it.

I've taken 2 Poly Fiber classes and read the manual about a thousand times, and the advice is always the same: You should mechanically attach your fabric to the ribs no matter how wide your capstrips are or what the manual says. Having done this, I'll say it was not difficult, and didn't take that long. It took me about 15 minutes per rib, including threading the needle and transitioning between ribs. In my opinion, once you get going, it's actually one of the more enjoyable parts of the build. Don't be intimidated. Just get some practice and do it.

Edit: watch this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y-oU1ikcAA) about 17 times while sitting with some kind of practice rig. You'll be growing palm trees in no time.

[N981MS]

My build manual said that too.

However, the Polyfiber manual says you must mechanically attach because the force that will remove the fabric from the rib is a peeling force and the width of the rib is irrelevant.

I agree that the riblacing became enjoyable once I got the hang of it and it really did not take that long.

I saw one Kitfox years ago that did not appear to have any lacing but I know nothing about the owner or how it held up.

[efwd]

Google Steve Wittman. Wikipedia states his wings were improperly built. It is my understanding that his fabric was not laced. Don't hold me to that piece of info though. None the less, Brian is correct, no good reason to leave out the laces and I agree it was fun. If your going to build an airplane yourself, build an airplane and do it with safety in mind first and foremost.

[tracstarr]

Right, mechanically attached. Has anyone tried alternates to stitching? It's not about the time or anything. I'm just curious.

[avidflyer]

The Avid Magnum used staples that curled as they went in so they would hold more. No doubt, that would be fast and easy. Maybe not near as good the second time around with a bunch of holes in the capstrips, and it would probably be hard to get the staples out when you are stripping the fabric. Probably most of the early Avids and Kitfoxes did not ribstich. I've had 4 Avids and one Kitfox that weren't ribstiched with no problems. I did ribstich the Avid and Kifox 4 wings when I recovered them though. Partly because I already had the materials from when I bought a bunch of left over stuff from some one else supplies. It also does take the worry out of things, and maybe would help in case of resale. Besides, as others have said, it's not that hard or time consuming once you get at it. JImChuk

[tracstarr]

Thanks.

I guess to be honest, some of my curiosity comes with taking on Oratex as my fabric of choice. Wondering if gluing to the ribs would be just as good. It would be a cleaner look. I'm not sure I want to be the first to test that though.

[avidflyer]

To be legal, on a certified aircraft, Poly Fiber says you have to mechanicly attach the fabric. Oratex is not Poly fiber though, so I would ask, What does Oratex require you to do. They should know their product. JImChuk

[Shadowrider]

Oratex states if rib stitching is required by manufacture of aircraft then you need to.

[David47]

If you look at some older aircraft - by that I mean 1930's and on - some used to use a rounded bead of wood "U" shaped if you will - and they nailed this to the rib cap once the fabric was applied. For mine, you're building a rag and tube airplane and aside from the potential safety issue which I think is important, seeing rib stitching is part of the fabric covering "look". I didn't stitch my empennage surfaces but stitched my wings.

[BobRS]

Just do it! There was a image posted on this forum some number of years ago of a KF flying without rib stitching. Most of the fabric on the top of the wings had ballooned since the image was taken from a chase plane. We took the class at Oshkosh, but the DVD video is better. After the 1st rib, stitching become very routine. Just be sure to have plenty of band aids for your fingers (you'll understand when you pull the twine tight). My wife did >1/2 of the stitches on both wings. Nothing to be afraid of, but buy the video.

BobRS
KF SS7, Rotax 914 and Flying
Albuquerque, NM

[jonstark]

Have any of you ever stitched a previously painted wing? I imagine it would be pretty difficult to see the needle.

Jon

[aviator79]

Have any of you ever stitched a previously painted wing? I imagine it would be pretty difficult to see the needle.

Jon

Since you really need to cover the stitches with finishing tape, I'd think you would want to remove paint prior to stitching.

Regardless, It's not really easy to see the needle even without paint. If you pre-punch the holes, you'd be fine until you ran into internal structure. It won't hurt much to have a few "oops" holes. They aren't large, and you'll be covering them with finishing tapes anyway.

[colospace]

I have never laced a standard fabric, but lacing the Oratex was never a problem for me. I had premade all holes and then it was just a matter of feeling for where the needle point was relative to the desired hole. But be sure to use non-waxed lacing.

[efwd]

speaking of wax, I know of nobody who sells unwaxed flat string. I used the round string sold to me with the Oratex. I have and do encourage others to strip the wax from the flat thread and use that. I believe John and I know Carl has done this. It is just my opinion but I believe the look is better if you use flat string. It will also makes applying the reinforcing tapes easier. The unwaxed round string is taller which makes the tapes want to bunch up on the edges. It works out in the end but it takes additional effort that you may appreciate not experiencing by using that effort in stripping wax from flat thread.

[Xengineguy]

So my manual states rib lacing is optional - but has anyone actually taken that option? Has anyone used alternate methods of securing the fabric to ribs? Just curious.

I used rivets to secure the fabric. Worked good. Looks good. If I remember correctly I used tape under the rivets and over them when done.

[Cherrybark]

Yes, I used flat, waxed rib stitching cord with the Oratex. Measured off a length, scraped a thumbnail along the cord followed by pulling through a rag wetted with alcohol. This was just to remove some of the excess wax. After stitching, there were a couple of flakes of wax on a few of the knots but they were clean for the most part. Only took a couple of minutes to wiped everything with alcohol. Brushed glue along the reinforcing tapes and made sure the lacing got wet. The finishing tape stuck without problem and there are nice sharp creases along the laces so adhesion is good.

I agree, this is a very satisfying step of the covering process.

[colospace]

Same approach and results as Carl.

[tracstarr]

I got a reply from oratex. They suggest that if your manual says stitch then stitch - for obvious liability reasons IMO. But, I was also told that gluing to the ribs should be more than adequate as well.

If your ribs are stamped construction and do not have a turned down edge, you need to produce chaffe strips from your Oratex material and glue them to the ribs. Do not use any other store bought chafe strip material as it will not work with Oratex. Remember to glue the final Oratex covering to the Oratex chafe strips.

[aviator79]

If Oratex says follow the kit manufacturer's manual, and the manual tells you to rib stitch, and the Oratex STC does not allow you to skip stitches, and you don't know of 100 planes flying around with 20 year old Oratex glue as the only thing keeping the fabric from separating from the upper camber, I'd do the rib stitching. You're looking at a 4-5 hour job, easily completed over a weekend with breaks to work on other things. There may be some places in the build to save some effort, but IMO, this isn't one of them.

[tracstarr]

Yeah, again it's not about saving effort. Just a curious mind. I like to explore all options and answers. Although the clean look would be nice, by no means am I going to be the long (or short) term tester.

[aviator79]

I love the look of the stitches (and pinked tapes for that matter). It's an irrational aesthetic preference, but I like for fabric-covered planes to look like they are covered in fabric.