Weight & Balance form LSA & Exp needed

[Davidn]

I recently saw a weight and balance form that had loading for both experimental and LSA. It looked like a Excel spreadsheet. Does anyone have a copy that could have? The Excel sheet would be the best.
Dave

[littlecricket]

Any luck on finding this?

[t j]

Here's an excel spreadsheet set up to do weight and balance. Save it to your computer then edit it to do weight and balance on any airplane, nose or tail wheel.
Weight & Balance Classic IV & Lite² Aircraft - Kitfox Aircraft



(https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=2ahUKEwi2_MSe87PgAhUmiFQKHSnRCF8QFjABegQICBAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kitfoxaircraft.com%2Fimages%2 FExcel%2520Spreadsheets%2FClassic%2520IV%2520-%2520Lite%25C2%25B2%2520-%2520W%26B.xls&usg=AOvVaw0z3axsdrCjC3lrXgbO_mLn)

[fastfred]

[QUOTE=t j;82523]Here's an excel spreadsheet set up to do weight and balance. Save it to your computer then edit it to do weight and balance on any airplane, nose or tail wheel.
Weight & Balance Classic IV & Lite² Aircraft - Kitfox Aircraft



(https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=2ahUKEwi2_MSe87PgAhUmiFQKHSnRCF8QFjABegQICBAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kitfoxaircraft.com%2Fimages%2 FExcel%2520Spreadsheets%2FClassic%2520IV%2520-%2520Lite%25C2%25B2%2520-%2520W%26B.xls&usg=AOvVaw0z3axsdrCjC3lrXgbO_mLn)This works great but can you remind me how to get the weights for the most adverse front and rear

[t j]

I'm going by a 20 year old memory in a 70 year old brain so someone may have a better way to calculate max fore and aft CG.

I played the "What if " by putting weights in both the fore and aft sections of the form that the plane could fly at and remain within the CG limits and max gross weight limit.

For max foreward CG: light pilot, low fuel load, no baggage.
For max aft CG: 2 fat guys, full fuel, max baggage load.

[fastfred]

Do we really need the fore and aft in a kitfox ? Do you divide the weights up somehow fore and aft. . Or how about WHY does this form show fore ad aft?

[t j]

In a kitfox, every thing you put in the plane moves the CG back, and everything you take out moves the CG foreward.

With maximum fore and afft CGs shown on the form you don't have to fill out and sign a new form for each flight.

[fastfred]

I am sorry I a not getting this. I am a bit rusty on WB. In my case it is a tricycle gear . I weigh 180, no passenger, 156 lbs of fuel, 50 lbs baggage in a model 7ss.
1- how would I figure what is forward or aft for my flight. The mains are behind me so pilot and fuel would be forward and the baggage goes in aft?
2- do I use the fore and aft for every flight?
3- what do I do with those figures? As long as the fore and aft both fall between the 16 and 10 numbers

[t j]

I hear you Fred. Here's a couple short EAA hints for home builders on Most forward and most aft CG calculations. I'v found that it takes a while playing with the calculations to get a feel for how it works. Also, sometimes people get too much help with it. Everyone has a different view of how to do the calculations and they can all be correct but the helpers sometimes get fixated on trying to prove that their way is the only correct way.

The excel spread sheet I posted is for a model 4. The same type spreadsheets are out there and available for the Model 7ss. maybe someone can point you to one of those. I don't know anything about CG limits etc on those later model Kitfoxes.

In your example above the only thing that will change during the flight to move the CG is the burning of fuel which will move the CG forward in a Kitfox.

Most foreward CG video https://video.eaa.org/detail/videos/weight-and-balance/video/2956399158001/weight-and-balance:-most-forward-weight-and-cg?autoStart=true

Most aft CG video https://video.eaa.org/detail/videos/weight-and-balance/video/2947260884001/weight-and-balance:-most-aft-weight-and-cg?autoStart=true

[fastfred]

I see ,your wb form is just an example. So I assume you can use the same form to actually do our daily wb calculation and as long as the number falls between the numbers you will be in balance. Just to clarify you are suppose to do a calculation for fore and aft every time you d the WB?

[jrevens]

Hi Fred,

The forward and aft limits are specified and don't change for a particular design. The airplane should have been flight-tested while loaded as close to both forward and then aft limits as possible. What you calculate if necessary, and make sure of, is that you are somewhere between those limits with your center of gravity (CG) whenever you fly.

[fastfred]

Could you show me a copy of yours so can compare t to what I have? Is yours 1550?
Sothe link he hared isnot for doing daily calculation for the original wb

[colospace]

I am sorry I a not getting this. I am a bit rusty on WB. In my case it is a tricycle gear . I weigh 180, no passenger, 156 lbs of fuel, 50 lbs baggage in a model 7ss.
1- how would I figure what is forward or aft for my flight. The mains are behind me so pilot and fuel would be forward and the baggage goes in aft?
2- do I use the fore and aft for every flight?
3- what do I do with those figures? As long as the fore and aft both fall between the 16 and 10 numbers

Fred,
Excuse me if I am misinterpreting your words above, but the datum for W&B calculations is the wing leading edge. The gear configuration will effect the empty CG, but is not the datum you would measure from in determining the "arm" for pilot/passenger, baggage, fuel, etc.

[rv9ralph]

I don't want to get "preachy" but by reading some of the posts here, it may help for some to restudy the principles of W&B from their ground school course.

There is a requirement that a W&B sheet be in the aircraft at all times. This is the calculation done when in preparation for issuance of the Air Worthiness Certificate. It may also be done at any other time as deemed necessary due to changes in the configuration of the aircraft. It is done with the aircraft empty, i.e. no fuel, no baggage no people. There is a W&B calculation worksheet included in the plans/direction manual. It is from this that the pilot is required to compute that the aircraft is loaded within the CG range for each flight. With our Kitfoxes, you can use the spread sheet, with the information for your aircraft and play "what if" loadings by changing the weight of the pilot/passengers, fuel load and baggage to determine if you are property loaded within the max/min. range before flight.

Ralph

[fastfred]

Thank you for all this input. I guess I was just confused why we had to calculate fore and aft for every light but this form is designed for finding the fore and aft when weighing he plane.

[Dave S]

Hi FF,

To cut to the chase,

1) The concept "most adverse" forward and aft, is primarily a concept used in first flight and testing - a person's DAR normally discusses this with the applicant and the reason is to assure that first time the plane leaves the ground the engineered W/B is not exceeded by throwing something in the plane in a manner that would cause that.

2) For routine flying we assure that our actual load is within the engineered fore and aft limits for the plane as listed in the weight and balance document (to which the plane has carefully been tested in phase 1).

I think you are getting it, but it is easy to overthink if the two concepts get mixed.

[neville]

All of your questions are answered in the FAA handbook " Aircraft Weight and Balance Handbook", It can be obtained from places such as Sporty's, Aircraft Spruce, EAA, or other firms offering FFA publications.

[Dave S]

........, or other firms offering FFA publications.


For the record, FFA (Future Farmers of America) does not carry this information ;)

[PapuaPilot]

Most FAA handbooks are available online for free as a PDF. Here is the W&B book:
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/media/FAA-H-8083-1.pdf

If you are building or doing maintenance it's a good idea to have the following FAA books: AC43.13-1B, Airframe, General and Powerplant Handbooks

I don't know if the FFA had free books. ;)