Magnetic field

[silvaleonardo]

Hello All.....I'm just about to install compass for backup but notice there is a magnetic field inside the cabin so it brings the compass a little off.
That problem has a solution or is a thing a have to live with it?
Thanks
Leonardo

[efwd]

I believe there is a solution. Compass heading correction card. Unfortunately I believe the magnetism is something you have to live with and correct for, with a little card attached to the compass informing you to fly 183` when wanting to track 180` for example. Obviously you have to limit your columns to 4 or five headings with their corresponding true number.

[Esser]

You can degaus your airframe which removes any magnetic field

[silvaleonardo]

You can degaus your airframe which removes any magnetic field

Josh....Excuse my ignorance but what is degaus and how you do it?

[efwd]

sure, doesn't account for avionics and electronics though.

[rv9ralph]

Remember in ground school when they were teaching compass. "East is least,West is best"
Also, variation and deviation. Deviation is the effect on a magnetic compass from things in its surroundings. This is adjustable by "swinging the compass" on a compass rose of known accuracy. There are 2 adjustment screws that allows most deviation to be reduced. After that, you need to move the aircraft through the different headings on the compass rose and noting the errors. This is then put on the compass correction card.

Note: use a brass or other not ferrous screwdriver to adjust the compass.

Ralph

ps - I always remember the difference between variation and deviation is the devious are all around you. And, Variation varies with location.

[efwd]

Thanks Ralph. I will admit that I kinda forgot about the brass screwdriver adjustment. I wasn't certain that it was an airplane compass we were talking about necessarily. Funny, in all the years I worked on helicopters, I can only recall doing a compass swing one time. The only time in 17 years I used that brass screwdriver.

[Esser]

Josh....Excuse my ignorance but what is degaus and how you do it?

I’m not super familiar with how. You’ll need to google that but basically it tries to remove as much of the magnetic field as possible with an electric current.

Basically you can rent a machine, you plug it into the wall, and you start going over your airframe in specific directions. It’s makes sure all the remaining magnetic field is all in the same direction. You can’t do this with instruments in as far as I know...

[Dave S]

Leonardo,


I had a problem like this in our S7 also.


Originally I wanted a vertical card compass, which I could not get corrected to any usable standard at all - older compass and not a very good compensating system.


I ended up visiting With John McBean on the issue - his first advice was to get one of the SIRS compasses - found one at Aircraft Spruce - I guess if they are good enough for Boeing, they might be good enough for a Kitfox:D. The basis for John's recommendation was that the SIRS has a superior compensating system - unlike my old VC compass. Another feature it has is an adjustable mount so you can make minor adjustments for pitch angle depending on loading.


Second issue - the kitfox airframe indeed has some residual magnetism; however, it is not the same in all parts of the cabin above the glareshield. Some experimenting established that where a compass is normally mounted, in the middle and above the panel, is the devil's triangle of the mother of all magnetic flux, at least on our plane. Also found that minimal interference occurred to the port and to the starboard side just above the corner of the panel. I mounted the SIRS on the port side as shown in the attached photo.


With the SIRS and with the location I was able to get a compensation in all directions less than 1 degree. I am happy with that plus not having to deal with other magnetic voodoo.


BTW - the SIRS comes with a non magnetic plastic key to set the compensation.

[jiott]

I installed a Falcon vertical card compass in the center top of my panel, just under the glare shield. Was able to use the compensating screws and get it to no more than about 2 degrees error.

[efwd]

I wonder how one would fare by pulling out the cell phone compass if one was needed. At least the phone Navigation could point me the right direction should the compass prove useless.

[PaulSS]

Magnetism of the airframe occurs mainly during the welding process and the only way you can reduce magnetism in the airframe is to degaus it. Do NOT do this while any sort of compass is installed, including things like the Dynon AHARS units etc.

Interestingly, the aircraft can/will re-magnetise over time due to some fairly innocuous reasons. If you always park in the same direction, if you park in a steel hangar, if you park on a concrete floor with steel reinforcing. I'm not talking about a sudden change and your aircraft attracting all the steel screws you dropped but over time it may be necessary to degaus again, especially if the airframe was particularly bad in the first place.

[Guy Buchanan]

OK it took me some digging, but I found a place that will rent a tool you can use for demagnitizing large structures. This link (https://www.bergeng.com/category/rental-contour-probes.html) takes you to a place that rents contour probes. These are used for NDT, but work as demagnetizers. When I put my IV together the fuselage around the instrument panel was magnetized enough to render my compass useless. I rented one of these and remove enough of the magnetism to make the compass accurate without compensation. They're dead simple to use, but you will demagnetize anything and everything else in the area, so you want to do it before installing any avionics, and better yet without installing the engine charging and ignition system, or any other digital stuff.


I used one of these dirt simple gauss (https://www.ebay.com/i/263891497946?chn=ps) meters to check out the actual fuselage magnetism.

[HighWing]

A question, I guess. When I was first building - 1993 - I installed hard points for a VOR antenna, but in the five years before first flight early GPS units, rather primitive by today's standard, became available and the VOR antenna was never installed. Then, I am trying to remember using the E6B calculator in the Kitfox. I know I did in the 70s when first flying, but it is never in the cockpit today. Charts, yes, but as back-ups only. The thought, how often do I check the compass - probably never. But then my flying has been mostly in the five western states with mountains to give general orientation. Am I doing something wrong?

[cap01]

ten years ago when i made the instrument panel , i mounted the compass in the panel and also a ram mount for a gps. the gps blocks the view of the compass so i have never even seen the compass , besides i have no idea how accurate it is since I've never swung it. i usually have two sources of heading info in the cockpit if i need it, the i pad with flyq and the garmin. i really like the chart updates on flyq. the paper chars are relegated to sunshade in the overhead.

[nyrikki]

In a steel frame airplane or really any airplane you will want to consider paying the extra for a compass like Sirs that has corrections for coefficients A, B C, and D.

Coefficient:


A: will be a consistent error, and you can just rotate the indicator

B: will fix the front to back magnetism, when you swing your plane on a compass rose it will be an error that is the sine of your local flux lines.

C: Is like B but is caused by athwartship magnetism and will produce an error that is the cosine of the heading.

D: Is typically caused by electronics and will typically be twice the sine of the heading.

E: Is caused by soft iron and will be twice the cosine and shouldn't be an large issue on tube and frame aircraft and I don't think any common aircraft compasses offer this correction anyway but is usually fixed with large iron spheres on ships.

Take your plane to an airport with a good compass calibration pad; turn on all of your gear and have someone help you swing your plane and chart the error you can get way more accurate than most cards will be set even in commercial planes.

You will need to find someone who is good at math to help you out, but the error will approximately model the following. One of these days someone should produce a phone app or web page that will let you play with Fourier transforms to guess the corrections, but by hand rotating the plane with a plumb bobs taped to the nose and tail to line up on the lines you can work them out through brute force.


Deviation ≈ A + B sin θ + C cos θ + D sin 2*θ + E cos 2*θ

If you use a compass with just N-S and E-W adjusters (like most airpath models) you will need to depend on the card. If you spend the extra money on a model with 4 magnet correction abilities or better it will take a bit more effort to set but will be far nicer in the long run (sirs as an example).

I think the cost difference is around $100 so weigh that with the convenience of not needing a card.

[n85ae]

I have a Sirs and spent a lot of time tweaking it, and getting it just right, and
never ever even look at it ... I guess with the number of things that provide
heading information these days I simply don't use it.

I almost always align DG on runway heading, takeoff and then start using
GPS track. When I notice a bit of DG drift I more often than not correct it with
a combination of track, and land line information (roads, etc)

It would be a big effort to degauss the airframe for something that I bet you
won't use very much ...

Jeff

[silvaleonardo]

Leonardo,


I had a problem like this in our S7 also.


Originally I wanted a vertical card compass, which I could not get corrected to any usable standard at all - older compass and not a very good compensating system.


I ended up visiting With John McBean on the issue - his first advice was to get one of the SIRS compasses - found one at Aircraft Spruce - I guess if they are good enough for Boeing, they might be good enough for a Kitfox:D. The basis for John's recommendation was that the SIRS has a superior compensating system - unlike my old VC compass. Another feature it has is an adjustable mount so you can make minor adjustments for pitch angle depending on loading.


Second issue - the kitfox airframe indeed has some residual magnetism; however, it is not the same in all parts of the cabin above the glareshield. Some experimenting established that where a compass is normally mounted, in the middle and above the panel, is the devil's triangle of the mother of all magnetic flux, at least on our plane. Also found that minimal interference occurred to the port and to the starboard side just above the corner of the panel. I mounted the SIRS on the port side as shown in the attached photo.


With the SIRS and with the location I was able to get a compensation in all directions less than 1 degree. I am happy with that plus not having to deal with other magnetic voodoo.


BTW - the SIRS comes with a non magnetic plastic key to set the compensation.


Thanks Dave......I got the same compass, still on the box though. After reading all the input on my question sure I'll install it tomorrow.
Leonardo

[silvaleonardo]

I wonder how one would fare by pulling out the cell phone compass if one was needed. At least the phone Navigation could point me the right direction should the compass prove useless.

Hello Eddie......I already did that and the cell phone is also sensible inside the cabin. I installed the transponder and radio behind the panel, don't know if that makes any effect or not also doesn't make any difference with those on or off.
Leonardo

[dcsfoto]

just a note: if you use a glass panel and have the magnetometer in the wing you do not need a panel mounted compass.

you only need a magnetic indicating device.

David Kelm
A&P.IA,DART,DARF
7SS 912is Garmin Touch

[PapuaPilot]

just a note: if you use a glass panel and have the magnetometer in the wing you do not need a panel mounted compass.

you only need a magnetic indicating device.

David Kelm
A&P.IA,DART,DARF
7SS 912is Garmin Touch

I was about ready to say that too.

[efwd]

I have a glass panel with magnetometer. What is a magnetic indicating device?
Im guessing that its the screen that presents the Magnetometer input?

[nyrikki]

I have a glass panel with magnetometer. What is a magnetic indicating device?
Im guessing that its the screen that presents the Magnetometer input?

Yes on the Garmins it will be on the top. If you haven't calibrated it or the error is bad enough it will be yellow but should be white if it thinks things are OK. If it is using GPS it will typically be Magenta with "TRK". I have no idea on other manufactures.

Be sure to ask the FBO the last time their compass calibration pad was actually calibrated if you depend on the magnetic track when you calibrate it.

Some places have a significant declination change and it may be hard to know the last time the lines were painted at some airports. I think the surveys are valid for 5 years and if you are shooting for more than FAR compliance you could be way more then 10 degrees off if it is at the tail end of that if you live in a area with lots of drift.

Probably not as big of an issue these days with GPS but if you are a big user of dead reckoning and manual pilotage it will cause problems as well as be out of compliance with the FARs.

Edited to add:

If you are in the West of the US I think this changes more but it is about a degree per year for me, so near the end of a 5 year survey a compass calibration pad will be off by close to 5 degrees.

The 10 degree limit is for large aircraft, but a really good idea IMHO for smaller craft too.

If you live in a place without anomalies you can look up the drift here and try and compensate.

https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/declination.shtml

[jtpitkin06]

Josh....Excuse my ignorance but what is degaus and how you do it?

Use a bulk tape eraser. Lots of them on eBay for about $20. The ones made by Realistic Radio Shack are small, powerful and easy to use.

Power the eraser up before you move it into the airframe. Hold the eraser (degauser) against the airframe and work your way all over using a 3 inch circular motion. Do all tubes on all sides. Don’t release the spring power switch until you move away from the airframe a foot or so. It will take several passes to get the residual magnetism down to a reasonable level.

John Pitkin
Greenville Tx

[Danzer1]

I have a glass panel with magnetometer. What is a magnetic indicating device?
Im guessing that its the screen that presents the Magnetometer input?

Eddie, In your case, both the magnatometer and display make up the "device" - one can't be used without the other and yes the combo meets all requirements unless you get an off the wall DAR.


If you are in the West of the US I think this changes more but it is about a degree per year for me, so near the end of a 5 year survey a compass calibration pad will be off by close to 5 degrees.

Greg, the change rate is not nearly that high. In Seattle and most of the West it is 9' (minutes) a year, there are 60 minutes in a degree. So it takes 6.66 years to get to just 1 degree of variation.

YMMV, Greg

[nyrikki]

Eddie, In your case, both the magnatometer and display make up the "device" - one can't be used without the other and yes the combo meets all requirements unless you get an off the wall DAR.



Greg, the change rate is not nearly that high. In Seattle and most of the West it is 9' (minutes) a year, there are 60 minutes in a degree. So it takes 6.66 years to get to just 1 degree of variation.

YMMV, Greg

I shouldn't have linked to that site at the last moment and I did have a mistake with units there so thanks for capturing my mistake. FWIW the Seattle city center and thus airports like BFI are in a fairly stable part of the area but I don't fly out of there.

Some of the smaller GA airports in the Puget Sound area are challenged by quite large magnetic anomalies and that causes massive changes at individual locations that aren't covered by the small change in the site above.

For those in the PNW bremerton just did certify a new rose with only a small no-cal area this spring but had challenges and had to abandon their top choices due to multiple issues.

https://www.portofbremerton.org/media/dynamic/files/411_Compass_Rose_Report_2018-04.pdf

And Arlington is unconditional this year.

https://www.arlingtonwa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/267/Compass-Rose-Calibration-Certificate-PDF

While I can't find docs for the airport I was talking about, and don't want to spread misinformation about an individual airport. I ran into a problem with helping a friend with his RV-12 last year. We are in an area of complex fault lines and local anomalies so if you are in the PNW be careful of using a compass pad in some of the red areas here if they don't have a recent survey.

https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1999/of99-514/whole_map.html

Note that map does show the rate change but is a good proxy without calling out a single facility. Two of the major geographical structures around here differ in their trend from ~285° and ~315° and we tend to build near their boundary.

I doubt this is as much of an issue in areas where volcanic and plate activity isn't as active but these localized anomalies can be extreme.

To be clear, I was wrong and assume the local 1 degree annual change we had to account for was related to the website I linked to as I failed to check my units. Just ask the FBO or airport owner if they have these types of large anomalies and verify at another location.