Painting with Stewarts System

[N14ND]

Stewarts System Painting- Ecopoly Premium
9/1/18, 70 degrees, 35% humidity
10x10x20 plastic sheet paint booth. Pressure venting from 3 box fans with filters.

Setup: 5hp 30 gallon Sears compressor (110v), 5 gallon accumulator tank with water trap, 1/2” hose between all implements, npt fittings throughout, coiled hose in large water bucket filled with cold water and frozen jugs of water prior to accumulator, pressure regulator, 2- particle filters, Binks desiccant snake, 25’ 3/8”Flexilla hose, high flow disconnect only at gun.
DeVilbiss Finishline Gun- 1.3 mm nozzle

Painted boot cowl- upper and lower, both doors, upper cabin window cover fwd and aft, battery access door, aft h-stab access panels and tailwheel attach/rudder post access panels.

Did 2 fog coats and one final wet coat.
1- Fog coat(with cross coat) 3/4 turn open fluid needle(moving fast)
2- Fog coat(with cross coat) 1/8 turn more open(moving fast)
1- Wet coat- 1/2 turn more open(moving slower)

Was confused with exactly how to apply the paint as I watched the early videos from 10 years ago. There’s not as much info on the new application procedure. So I modified the old with the new. Did 2 fog coats and one final wet coat.
Fog coats went on nicely. Pretty easy to do and get good coverage. Took longer to tack up to the post-it note tackiness than I expected. Probably 10-15 minutes. No problems with the paint in the gun while waiting or when mixing the additional that was needed. Final wet coat went on easily and got a nice gloss behind the gun. Went back over a couple of areas that needed more paint and the added spray blended in to what was laid down previously. Most of the panels were laid flat. Some were vertical and there were no runs. A bit more trash in the paint than I wanted as my paint booth filters and fans probably distributed it onto the paint. Will need to clean them before next session.

Overspray is super tacky and won’t come off anything so make sure to cover what you don’t want it on. Definitely want to wear a paint suit.

Coverage:
Mixed 900 grams of total product mixed per directions.
542g base+135.5g catalyst+ 135.5g water= 813g

Then needed to mix 80g more to finish the wet coat on the upper boot cowl.

Total Area Painted:
Estimating 15 sqft of parts. There’s a lot of wasted overspray doing the small panels so coverage would be more if a larger part.

Having done acrylic-enamel, lacquer and solvent based polyurethane I didn’t think the Stewart System process was difficult or that much different. You have to trust in the directions. It takes a bit of faith to look at the rough fog coats and know that the wet coat(s) are going to cover it up.

Painting is 95% preparation. After masking, cleaning, scuffing and cleaning again I did a dry run of how I was going to spray with the gun and hose in hand. Getting to all sides, seeing how the lighting looked. I don’t know how many times I have bumped or dragged the hose across a part.

Water clean up is fantastic. It cleans very easily. And isopropyl alcohol will remove any residual within 20 minutes after spraying. My air system worked fine and kept 75psi in the hose as recommended by DeVilbiss.

Checked parts this morning and they look very nice. No orange peel, no solvent pops, and no runs. Very glossy.

[N14ND]

Painted SS EPP Midnight Black today on the belly pod. I cleaned the fans and put a post filter on to keep anything from being blown out so there isn't any trash in the paint. Just a knat that found its way onto it. Estimated the surface area to be about 18 sqft. Mixed 900 grams of paint. Came out just right. So, it comes out to 50 grams of EPP per sqft. So far anyway. Did the same two fog coats (includes fog cross coats) and one wet coat (includes cross coat). Initially was not happy with a couple of spots that didn't look as wet as the rest of the surface (had a dull sheen to it), but I didn't have any more paint. I thought I would wait to see what it looked like after it flowed out and started to cure. When out 2 hours later and it looks great. Nice and glossy. Had numerous vertical surfaces and no runs.

Note to self. Do not use plastic sheet as a protector on table or parts. The air from the gun will flutter the plastic and small flakes of previous paint will come off and be blown onto your surface. So it looks like I will need more painters paper.

Also, Ace Hardware Rust Stop, Oil Based Enamel "Medium Grey" is a pretty good match to SS Battleship Grey. Battleship has a slight blue hue to it. I painted the interior of the belly pod, seat pan and plywood floor with it. I mix in a little Acrylic Enamel Catalyst to get it to harden up faster. The seat pan and floor boards I shoot a coat of clear matte polyurethane over it to give it a little more abrasion resistance.

[Delta Whisky]

This post is much appreciated as I'm planning on using the Stewart's system.


Thanks, Darrel

[N14ND]

Well, the honeymoon is over with the EcoPoly Premium. I have followed the application instructions to a "T" and it is very finicky paint. I don't know if I got a bad batch of paint, but I get sections of millions of tiny holes that look like non-skid paint. Stewart System calls them "solvent pops" and that it comes from applying the paint too thick. Which is interesting in that it only happens with one particular gallon of paint. My spray pattern and control is good. I had this problem earlier and I was convinced by them that it was operator error and that I was applying it too thick, I was very conscience about how I was applying it on the fuselage. I had to sand down the pin holes, but it was on a composite part. Now it is on the fabric. At least it is on the belly where I can mask off the effected area.

I love the EcoBond and Ecofill. I like being able to clean up with water. The paint not so much. I tried trusting in the system and followed closely, but the paint looks lousy.

I have used other paints. Much more forgiving.

[Rodney]

That is discouraging to hear, as I have some wheel pants I wanted to paint using Stewarts.

I talked to them at Oshkosh this year, and he told me to do 4 fog cross-coats. I wonder if we did that, then could the final coat be applied with less paint??

Sound like you have a lot of painting experience, but could this be any form of silicon contamination??? I found out the hard way that cleaning rags that have been dried in our home dryer picked up enough contamination to ruin a paint job. Reading on some of the automotive paint sites, they say that Bounce, or whatever it is that one puts into the dryer can have enough silicone in it to contaminate cleaning rags.

Just a thought:confused:

If your not going to use Stewarts, then have you decided which paint to proceed with?

Regards
Rodney

LOL - I did the plastic sheet thing too. Went right back to paper.

[jmodguy]

I tried Stewart’s and had nothing but bad results. Orange peel or solvent pop. We went through 4 cans of “practice paint” and a gallon of white and never saw a professional finish. I talked with their experts and we tried everything imaginable with gun settings, pressure settings and paint mix. We even had a chemist look at this paint. Our air system is on par with professional systems and the gun is an Iwata LS400 SuperNova. We put together an 18 page report of our results and sent it to Stewart’s. They didn’t have any answers. After talking with a kit manufacturer and a certified manufacturer at Oshkosh, I threw my Stewart products in the trash, even the Ecofill. At almost $400 a gallon this paint should perform flawlessly.
PPG is the way to go. Yes it is solvent based, but you will get professional results every time.
My 2 cents...

[Rodney]

Jeff

Is you PPG paint an acrylic enamel??

Rodney

[jmodguy]

single stage polyurethane

[Flybyjim]

I have to agree with the earlier post, painting is 95% prep work. I have sprayed 5 planes with either poly tone, super flight, and PPG paints. A friend asked if I would spray his wing after a repair and I agreed to do the job using his Stewart paint.

I called and talked to the Stewart folks in Ohio about the process. I came away with a concern and that was the amount of CFM's required to flow their paint, pressure is always available but not enough CFM's and the paint will not atomize properly.

So I used a smaller HVLP Sata 4400 mini gun that requires only 6CFM as compared to a Devilbiss finish line at 13 CFM. It was odd spraying at such a fast movement of the gun to keep the paint as a fog coat but with a practice panel I got the hang of it with just a couple passes. Now when I spray with most paints I have the fan wide open and the flow control also very open and control the amount of paint applied to the surface by distance and speed. I was amazed at how long it took the fog coats to set up and be ready for the next fog coat, 10-15min on the first fog coat, 20-25 on the next fog coat. For the final coat, you need to move in a bit closer with the gun and slow the pass down just a bit to get a good finish. As you spray this last coat the paint needs go wet behind the gun speed by about 5 seconds. If you spray a full wet coat it will run or set up with pin holes from gasing out.

For my own Kitfox I am going with the Super flight system with PPG paint. I know this system best and have always gotten great results.

Just my experiences to share with you, all systems seem to work for some and not others.

Jim

[N14ND]

I am "super" anal. I made sure that I was able to check off all of the Stewarts boxes on gun, air supply, CFM, prep, paint gun, tip size, you name it. The Battleship Gray that is the base coat went on nicely. I also did a few test panels first, then did a bunch of small parts before painting the fuselage. Aluminum panels, the composite doors and they all came out fine.

The Midnight Black has been nothing but trouble. I have wondered if it is a problem with the color dyes, as the base material is the same batch as what went into the gray. I don't know. They don't think so. It is still operator error to them. The fog coat recommendation is to color saturation, so it took 3 light fog coats of black to cover the gray, each one I waited for tack to no transfer. Then lay on the final coat that I made sure that I did not apply too thick. It looked great at 2 hours...mirror finish. I was stoked. Then the next day.....ugh.

No silicone or oil, anywhere. I have Stewarts tack rags and wipes and prep and clean, mix and stir exactly as they request. Everytime I pull the trigger on the gun with Stewarts I have trepidation. I have spent way too much time building this to have my paint look like a POS.

As this is an experimental I don't care about using the Stewarts System to compleation. So I have a test kit coming from Airtech Coatings to see if their single-stage solvent based polyurethane paint is compatible with the Stewarts Ecopoly to go over the top. They are not sure if there will be a reaction. They think if the Ecopoly Premium is a true polyurethane that their paint should be able to adhear and not cause any issues. I will be the test. I am going to apply some of their paint over some off my SS finished small parts. If that goes well, I will mask off a small area on the bottom of the fuselage and try it there.

[Flybyjim]

Well 14ND it sounds like you did all as required, sorry I can not help, I know the frustration and feel for you.

Jim

[Rodney]

Agree that you have been more than meticulous. It really is a shame that a $400 per gallon paint is not working. With all the prep work you did and your set up, if it's operator error then we are all probably sunk.

FYI. This may not be of any value to you, but if it ever quits raining here in Oklahoma, I'm trying to get a 95 Dodge Pickup primed and painted.

In searching for paints, everything I was finding was in the $400/gallon range - especially for red colors. Then a friend recommended I look at Summit racing. They have a single stage Acrylic Urethane paint system, and the prices are very reasonable. For Gloss Black, you get a gallon of paint, activator and reducer in a kit for $118.00 And, it shoots very well; just like you would expect. Do NOT tell Summit that the paint goes on an airplane - if you do, I have been advised they won't sell you anything. Had a friend that was buying an oil pressure gage for his Corvair conversion and he told them it was going in an airplane and they would not sell the gage to him.

Really hope you get a paint that works and can get on with your project.
Painting is hard enough with having to deal with the problems you have encountered.

Regards
Rodney

[jmodguy]

Eastwood.com also has single stage urethanes. Don’t know how flexible they are but lot of colors!
For what its worth PPG Delta ( Delfleet?) is what some certified tube n fabric teams are using.

[bbs428]

I can completely empathize with your situation. I hope it turns out fantastic the second time around!

As a mechanic 1st and as a painter a distant third or fourth, I get a bit nervous every time I pick up the paint gun. I have been defeated numerous times by contamination, dust, humidity and my own stupidity! lol.

For me a single stage auto urethane with a flex agent works very well. Nice gloss, durable, huge choice of colors, easy to shoot and affordable.

A great resource is a friend who owns an auto paint store close by. Mine has educated me despite my lack of artistry. My painting projects are turning out a lot better.

All the best.

[Danzer1]

TCPGlobal has single stage acrylic urethane in quart and gallon kits. I believe this is where some of the other resellers get theirs. Can't beat their prices (generally). Go here:

YMMV, Greg

[N14ND]

It has been awhile since my last post. Been waiting for the temperature to get warmer. I don’t want to trash Stewart’s System as I really like their stuff. I just didn’t have much luck with the trim paint over the base EPP. I still think it’s a bad batch of paint. Quick recap:

Had millions of “solvent pops” in the SS EPP black (second color trim) paint. Shout out to Airtech Coatings as they sent me a quart of their urethane top coat and suggestions to fill the majority of holes. Any top coat system can be applied over the catalyzed Stewart’s System.
Sanded with 320 to expose holes (ugh)
Airtech urethane is pretty thin so I used my finger as a squeegee and filled as many as I could see.
Sanded again. Sprayed a layer of Airtech (thinned) over the top. It looked acceptable so I stopped the process trill spring.
An IA friend that uses SS for certified recovers said he uses SS up one coat of their cheapest top coat in white. Then paints the final color coats with Stits Aerorhane. So that’s what I did.
Applied their black over the repaired areas and new masked trim areas. It turned out great!

I used Aerothane as it was available locally and was 2/3rds the price of other urethanes for fabric. It was super easy to spray. Flowed nicely and has incredible gloss. I pulled the tapes off an hour after the last coat and checked it this morning, no pin holes!!! The only difficulty I had was getting used to the fresh air hood as it took awhile to get used to seeing my reflection on the inside of the visor.

[Delta Whisky]

Great to read that your solution worked!! I'm about 2 months from painting with SS so I really appreciate your follow-up.

[N14ND]

2242822429

This is how it turned out.

[N14ND]

2243022431The first one is what a million solvent pops look like. The second is after sanding and finger squeegeeing in Airtech’s black urethane and another light sanding.

[Ronin]

2243022431The first one is what a million solvent pops look like. The second is after sanding and finger squeegeeing in Airtech’s black urethane and another light sanding.

Glad to hear it's working out better for you. That looks like really heavy coats of paint. That will cause flash off and solvent entrapment issues. Hard to say without seeing you spray really, but I would either, move faster, back the gun further away or turn the needle in on the gun a half to full turn. Maybe a combo of the three. Also don't shut the airflow off after you finish a coat, you have to keep fresh air flowing over the paint as it tacks up/dries. Even if you get some bugs or dirt in it. :(

[N14ND]

There are three layers on there now. The whole fuselage was painted battleship gray first. That first color went on well. The black trim second color was where the issues began. The gray was on for quite awhile before the black. Stewart’s System does go on thicker than anything I have sprayed. And some small parts I painted gray earlier had a thicker layer of paint as I learned how to spray SS. Had no problems with the gray.

The mil thickness of the Aerothane is fairly thin. The Stits rep said three coats but I was satisfied with the color saturation and look after two.

[jiott]

The guy that painted my plane did it full time for a living, working for a company that restores Stearmans. They exclusively use the PolyFiber system and use Aerothane for the final color coats. He told me that when you are all done, you should still be able to barely see the weave of the fabric thru the paint; if you can't, then you put on more than necessary. Two color coats is generally enough. I'm just passing this on from a professional since I know nothing about it myself.

[N14ND]

My first gray coat shows a slight amount of weave. SS says if you want to fill more of the weave do it with more coats of their UV block carbon Ecofill. Less expensive than paint. My goal on the Aerothane was to cover/fill as many of the pinholes as possible. Which, thankfully, was attained.