A newcomers questions

[benjam]

Evening every one from Brisbane, Australia.

I love the camaraderie of this site between all the interested parties.

I am contemplating getting a s7 kit. My wife has already said yes!!

Although I am reasonably handy, I have no technical training. Am I biting off too much by thinking I can build on of these aircraft to the same standard I see demonstrated in all the photos? I, too, will be working in my 6m x 9 m shed out the back of the house and then transporting the components as they are completed to the air field hangar for storage and final assembly.

Now for the real questions: Has any one covered their kit build with the Oratex aircraft fabric?

Has anyone got a dual throttle system to enable both pilots to fly right handed? is it do-able?

Cheers.

[efwd]

Welcome Benjam
Short answer. Yes, Yes and I believe Yes.
The throttle part I can only go on memory but Im not sure who it was that did it. Maybe they will reply.
I like to say, These KF manuals are far better than an IKEA furniture assembly manual. You will have questions for sure but there is a lot of support here (with photos). Have you ever assembled a BBQ or a lawnmower? OK, possibly over simplified when considering some aspects of the build. There are spots where the anxiety can build. I still get anxiety when people post about installing the wings. I checked and rechecked my measurements over and over that day then still went to bed to rest. Then I measured again in the morning before I drill the holes into the spars. People from all walks are building these planes as well as other planes and Ours has one of the best manuals out there I am told.
As for Oratex, many of us have used it. I believe you might find some photos of mine on my thread EFWD. Check Cherrybark and John Evans thread as well. It is a pretty nice product but it too has its quirks. Some say that it is too transparent and others would prefer paint to smooth out the tape edges as Oratex has exposed tape edges. I have damaged my fabric twice, I have recently discovered, and the fix (an iron on patch) has been an absolute blessing. 5 min and both of my patches were cut out and ironed on. Certainly it would have taken much longer had I used Poly Fiber. Certainly not knocking that stuff though. The painted aircraft are coming out beautiful. May use it next time should I build another.

[jrevens]

Hi benjam,

I believe I was at least one of the very first to use Oratex on this site. I tried to post pictures during my build, so you may find something useful if you search “John’s Build”.

[Dorsal]

Welcome Benjam,
Yes I believe you can as others have stated. As to the right hand flying (I was a dedicated right hand flyer) after the first hour or three of left stick I now wonder what I was so concerned about.

[benjam]

Thanks for the replies, Gents.

I will give it all some thought.

It has me a bit excited though!:)

[DesertFox4]

Ben. First off, welcome aboard. Glad you discovered the most exciting aircraft available.



Second. The double throttle has been done. Ends up, in my opinion, being a complicated solution to a non-problem. Also location of a 2nd throttle makes ingress and egress from the cockpit a little more difficult as they will stick out into the door opening some no matter which side it is located.


As far as the building part, you've already cleared the hardest hurdle in the entire build process. You got the go ahead from the wife.:) The rest is completely doable. Enjoy the forums. Lots of skilled people here to help you if you need.

[colospace]

I guess I have been remiss in not posting a picture with the wings installed, but there are some of the wings and fuselage separately under Turtle Build. There are several of us on this forum who have used or are using Oratex.

[rosslr]

HI Benjam,

Good to see another project being started down under!

You will enjoy it and don't be too daunted by the task or the skills needed - the manual is great, the kit is very good and the help from the factory and on this site is amazing!

As for your interest in the right hand option, I suggest you look up Ben's build ( from Sale in Victoria. he is doing that and a very good good of it too! he will be more than happy to chat about it and I am sure he will share his design with you if you are still wanting that option - that's the beauty of being 'Experimental'! You can do what you like! (within reason!)

You'll find Ben's build blog on this site as follows:
mcgaero
Aus S7 Kitfox

Good luck with it and let me know if I can help in any way.

cheers

ross

[Tom Waid]

Welcome to the forum.

Before you tackle the complexity of a double throttle you may want to get some dual time in a tandem seat airplane such as a Cub. You may discover, as I have, that having the throttle on the left is not a problem. It's something that you immediately adapt to.

[jrthomas]

On the subject of flying with left hand on stick and throttle on right, it's not a problem to relearn. I had flown for years with a Cub-like setup, center stick and throttle on the left. The 1st time I flew my buddy's Model 2 from the left seat, it felt very strange. Maybe it's muscle memory or something but my left hand didn't want to cooperate. I felt at first, like you, that it was going to be a problem. I was in the process of building my Model 4 and considered moving the throttle. The second time I flew the Model 2 everything fell into place. I never gave it a second thought. I think it's just a matter of relearning. I'm still amazed at how quickly I was able to adapt. I bet you'll do the same. James Thomas

[ken nougaret]

Consider all the yoke style aircraft (152,172,etc) out there. You fly those with your right hand on throttle and left on the yoke.

[Jaster]

Welcome benjam.

As I'm sure you've noticed, the folks on here are friendly and the info always helpful. I've spent the last week or two on here dreaming about ... err ... "researching" my new savings goal. Always nice to see another Aussie on here too. Kitfox might need to open an Australian distributor at this rate :D

Sounds like you're possibly closer to this goal than I am, so I look forward to watching another "local" build take place.


Cheers,
J.

[David47]

I've flown Aerofox (LH on stick), Decathlon (RH on stick) and recently KF (LH on stick). Takes about 1 minute for your brain to adjust. As JT says, paraphrasing, it isn't a problem to switch.

[N981MS]

I'll pile on. I thought about setting up to fly Ktifox from the right seat while building over the RH on stick LH on throttle issue. Decided not too and I am happy with stock setup.

The RV 10 I fly had dual throttles when I bought it. I tried to like the left hand throttle but it had some play in it that could not be resolved and I removed it.

The Zenith 750 we built had a single center stick so we put in dual throttles. Worked fine for flying but radio work was a bit awkward.

My bottom line for a Kitfox is save yourself some time and money. Build it stock. Set up for your preference of left or right seat unless resale value matters to you. If it does setup standard left seat.

My 2 cents.

[benjam]

Next Questions:

1. Will I be able to achieve the build in a single car garage? 6m x 4m.

It feels too small.

2. I look at the photos of other people's builds, with their technical involvement and metres of wiring and different components. It feels daunting.

Do the instructions cater for dopes like me who have all the gear, but no idea?

[aviator79]

I'm building in a space about that size, BUT I have a lot of parts and completed components stashed throughout the rest of my house, and some stuff over at my hangar. It is absolutely possible, and with some planning isn't really even that difficult. For me, the only real challenge is that you can't have a wing on inside. So if a step requires putting a wing on, you really have to plan to get the wing on, perform the task, and get the wing back off and stored. There is one step in the instructions where epoxy has to cure overnight while the wings are on. I was able to work with the factory to get this step done before my kit shipped, as much of the year it is too cold outside for the epoxy to cure.

You can look at my build log (http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=8427) to get an idea how I've used the space.

The manual is very good, and can be followed by a ham-fisted dope like me. Take your time, read the manual carefully, and practice new skills on stuff that is not on the airplane, or at least easy to fix when you screw it up. It looks like a lot when you look at other people's builds, but it's an elephant that you eat one bite at a time. Anyone with most of their fingers, two brain cells to rub together, and an adequate amount of patience can do it.

[Agfoxflyer]

I built my Kitfox before this forum and online support. It was by far the most complex undertaking to date. But I found it very doable. I have built two airplanes since and helped on several other airplanes. In my opinion the Kitfox plans are the best I have seen (no contest there) You will have questions as you proceed, but will not have any problems getting answers. My approach (so as to not be intimidated by the process) was I'm building a horizontal stabilizer, then I'm building a rudder, etc. Finally I have an airplane.

[rosslr]

" Do the instructions cater for dopes like me who have all the gear, but no idea?"

Yep, pretty much.

Also, I note from your profile that you are an airline pilot - I certainly hope your self description - '..dopes like me.' - is just a humble statement rather than an accurate description - or I would be interested to know which company you fly for!

Seriously, I know heaps of dopy airline pilots who have build airplane kits - anything is possible if you want it bd enough!

cheers

ross

[benjam]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

My 6x4m shed is the last resort if I am unable to source a better option.

Rosslr, flying them doesn't equal fixing them. While I can haul a 737 around the sky without much ado, I generally go and have a coffee when the engineers need to work on them. ;)

Seriously, though, I expect to be able to follow detailed instructions, but have had zero hands on maintenance action. I just don't want to be biting off more than I can chew.

It seems that the community and factory support will be invaluable and should be the oomph to see any problems through.

cheers.

[Esser]

You'll mess stuff up. You'll learn from it and not make the mistake again. I think everyone who built one gained tonnes of knowledge in a short order. Only way to learn is to do.

[rosslr]

Hey Benjam,

Understand your point ... I was really just trying to encourage you to go for it. If you do take the plunge, I will be first to support you - I'm in Bris fairly often and am sure we can arrange for you to have trial fly in mine if you want to before committing. I'm down at Mt Beauty but that is a lot closer than Boise which is where I went to look and test fly! I built mine in a 12m x 15m hanger which was a luxury I know, but Dave down in Melb (Moama build) is doing his in a smaller shed and Ben in Sale has had space issues and made a great spray booth out of a sea container. I think the message is that as long as you can find enough space for the length of the fuse and the wings, you will manage somehow.

Honestly, you only need fairly average skills (mine were/are VERY average!) because the manual, factory support and the team here are not only knowledgable but generous with their help. As Esser has said (come on josh, fly the bloody thing!) , you'll make mistakes, but rarely are the mistakes fatal! I just don't necessarily agree with him that you wont make the same mistake again!!! I know that for a fact....

Anyway Benjam, you're welcome for a look and to go for a fly with me if you can get down my way. Best wishes for the project.

cheers

ross

[benjam]

Cheers Ross... I might just take you up on that! There is another guy up here also talking about taking on this build/project. He might wish to come down too. Is that doable?

We were talking about taking the pilgrimage to OSHKOSH next year to check it out over there too.

Currently, I own and fly a Hughes Lightwing 912s. It is serviced by an experienced L2. The Lightwing has weight restrictions which the Kitfox does not have, which is why I am thinking about this change.

At any rate it is an exciting prospect.:)

[rosslr]

Yep, very doable. Happy to help. Send me an email with what you have in mind.

ross@imaginecgi.com

Howy Hughes used ot build his machines next to where we build a yacht in Ballina years ago - he was a chrtacter!

cheers

ross

[aviator79]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

My 6x4m shed is the last resort if I am unable to source a better option.

cheers.

If your 6x4m shed is walking distance from your house, it's a better option than a space three times that size that you have to travel to. If you find more space away from home, use it to store things, and do the active construction as close to home as possible. I have built the majority of my plane so far in spare time at home. I put an hour or two of build time in every day before work. If I had to get in a car to get to the plane, I'd be hundreds of hours behind where I am now.

[David47]

G’day Ben, hope you take up the build. As Ross said, I’m building mine in a shed about 6m x 7m but it could be built in the size you’re talking about. But as Brian said, you can store parts you’ve finished in other places such as the garden shed, under the house if you feel the need or even in the lounge room .... yep, I’ve even done that but the sounds of silence from my better half were deafening !!. If you have mates with a decent shed or garage, that helps. Must say it would be great for us Mexicans to have yet another KF builder in the country and you’ll get all the advice you need from me, Ross and Ben (the other one). Go for it.

[benjam]

Yes I am starting to think that the 6x4 back shed might just be the go.

I could do each component and then store else where as suggested, especially if I do the fire wall forward a lot further down the track.

The momentum is building...

[benjam]

Ross, won't be for a few months as I am currently grounded with a frozen shoulder. I will keep you posted. cheers.

[efwd]

You'd be surprised how neat a prebuilt wing looks hanging from the ceiling. I have an aviation theme in my house and considered hanging my wing from my living room ceiling. I hung them flat against the garage ceiling and everyone agreed that it would look great in the living room. Of course that was before varnish and primer.

[rosslr]

Ross, won't be for a few months as I am currently grounded with a frozen shoulder. I will keep you posted. cheers.

No worries - you have my email. look forward to catching up some time and hope the shoulder is getting better.

cheers

ross

[tjentzsch]

Keep us posted on the build. Curious on how well it will work for you.