Triple throttle controls, allowing right or left hand on stick from either seat

[Schmevn]

Hello everyone. I don't have a kitfox yet, just in dreamer phase at the moment. But I had a thought, as my title suggests. I have seen people in KitFox's, and in other aircraft like Pipistrel Virus, fly from the right seat so they can use their right hand on the stick.

So, my idea is, how about setup a three throttle controls, middle, left and right. They would all be linked in behind the dash so the controls all move together, I can see it in my head now. This would allow for right or left hand on the stick, from either seat. Whatever you prefer or are most comfortable with.

Has anyone done this in their aircraft, or would also find this useful?



Your thoughts?




Evan.

[tracstarr]

Well, everyone will have an opinion - mine is that it's over complicated and would be a bad place to have something fail.

You should also think about it - how often would you really be using other throttles? And why would you let anyone else fly? ;)

I originally had thoughts about moving the throttle to left side only, and then making it more like a level throttle. But, i've since decided to keep it simple and stick to the normal position.

There is someone on here (an Australian guy) who has left and center setup i think. It looked awesome.

[avidflyer]

This topic comes up every so often. I was thinking the same thing when I had to switch from using the right hand on stick, and left hand on throttle. After taxing around a bunch in my first Avid, the muscle memory developed, and it really wasn't an issue once I flew the plane. It actually was harder to get used to sitting off center from the prop. I had a tendency to come in for landing crossed up. I had been flying a Himax ultralight and then a Champ before the Avid. Of course, in both of those, the prop is straight ahead of you, and you get used to seeing it there. Then you move a foot to the side, but you still want to see the prop straight ahead of you cause that's what you are used to. Makes for some interesting landings. Good thing I was on grass. :-) JImChuk

[Dave S]

Correct, everyone will have an opinion on this. I guess mine is I fly from either seat with the standard center mount throttle and find the the switch with throttle and stick to be just another learning deal easily adjusted to.



Less complicated is better for reliability. One of the last things a person would want to have muck-up is the throttle - just my opinion.


Now, If a person wants to test their coordination skills, sit in the middle straddling the console with your right foot on the co-pilots left pedal and left foot on the pilots right pedal;)

[jiott]

If your engine is going to be a Lyc/Cont with a single carb cable, then maybe a triple throttle would be doable, but I personally wouldn't do for the reasons already given. With a Rotax and twin carb cables, a trple setup would be a rube goldberg mess subject to failure and/or adjustment nightmare.

[Schmevn]

I have an idea in my head, but not seeing behind the panel of a KitFox, I don't know if it would work. My thought has the three throttle's connected to some solid linkage, a pivoting bar perhaps, bearings on the ends attached to the frame. Each throttle is connected to a lobe coming off this pivoting bar. They all move in unison 100%. Then another lobe coming off the bar is the connection point for the throttle cable(s). I'm quite sure it could be made failure proof.

However, as others have pointed out, once you have the muscle memory to fly from either seat, this all become irrelevant.

[jrthomas]

Avidflyer told my story almost exactly. Except I owned a CGS Hawk for 15 years. Transitioning from center seating, left hand slide type throttle and right hand flying to left seat, right hand Vernier throttle and control stick in left hand felt strange at first but it only took a few minutes to get comfortable with the different arrangement. It's no big deal. My advise is to learn to fly it as it is and you'll get comfortable with it in no time. James Thomas

[rv9ralph]

I have a Kitfox 3 that was issued it's Airworthiness Certificate in 1991. It has an early Rotax 912. The initial setup for the throttle was a rod that was hinged on the left and right side between the instrument panel and the firewall. It had cables running from it to each carb, and one central cable to the instrument panel with a vanier control knob. Prior to my custodianship, this arrangement was removed and a split cable with a single knob from the instrument panel to both carbs was installed. In the other setup, I imagine getting the carbs to sync was a problem.

Just a little back story.

Ralph

[DesertFox4]

My first Kitfox, a model 3, had one of the earliest Rotax 912 engines.

While it did not have a dual throttle handle, it did have a pivot bar behind the panel that had two thin throttle cables coming off each end of the bar going through the firewall to operate each individual carburetor. It worked but required
more upkeep, more carb syncing and of course it had more failure points. I soon removed it for a much simpler safer heavier duty split throttle cable that gave me a direct connection to the carbs as used on the later model fours. Much better and simpler system.

[Tom Waid]

If your engine is going to be a Lyc/Cont with a single carb cable, then maybe a triple throttle would be doable, but I personally wouldn't do for the reasons already given. With a Rotax and twin carb cables, a trple setup would be a rube goldberg mess subject to failure and/or adjustment nightmare.

Not to mention the excess friction!

[Schmevn]

Funny, that pivot bar you guys were talking about for the two separate throttle cables is exactly what I was thinking. That would be perfect to repurpose to two/three throttle control knobs, but then down to 1 split cable as mentioned.

Anyway, it was all just random thoughts on wanting to handle the stick with my right hand. Thanks for all the feedback guys.



Evan.

[av8rps]

I learned how to fly in a J3 Cub. So left hand on throttle, right hand stick. 37 years later most everything I have flown (besides 30 hours in a Rans S7, 25 hours in a Pitts S2, and another 20 or so hours in a handful of other tandem aircraft) has been opposite, left hand on stick and right hand on throttle. It's my opinion to choose one or the other and stick with it, as going back and forth is a bit much for the average persons brain.

Not that most of us can't switch back and forth, but if ever in a tight spot with a high performance, less forgiving airplane, it's likely your hands may do the opposite of what you should have done. Better way to describe what I'm getting at; Imagine if every other automatic transmission car you got in had the accelerator pedal and the brake reversed? Can you imagine the accidents there would be?

I've always said that primary position in side by side airplanes should be to fly them from the right seat, so you could move into tandem seated aircraft without any issues with having to reverse your hand position. That way the only people that would have to learn to fly either hand position would be instructors. And then again maybe they should have mandated two throttles in every side by side airplane years ago? Tandems always have two.

If you dont want to engineer two throttles in your Kitfox, just learn to fly it from the right seat from the beginning. Lots of people fly from the right.

[N981MS]

I agree that it would be unnecessary complication. Stock center throttle is perfectly adequate for 2 pilot operations in a Kitfox.

I have some experience with dual throttle in a Zenith 750 which had a center joystick. O200 Continental. Worked ok except center stick radio work was awkward. Friction adjustment on the opposite throttle worried me a bit that the other guy might lock it down leaving me in pickle but it never happened

I am not an instructor but I do occasionally fly from the right seat. I am more comfortable on the left. Not that I feel I will try to flare with the throttle or power up with the stick. There are numerous tactile differences in the throttle and the stick that for me keeps that from happening. The issue for me is that the visual cues for runway alignment are different.

Bottom line for me is that the stock setup is the perfect compromise of access from both seats, simplicity, light weight, number of examples flown, universality (think C172).