A little help for a buyer

[Horsefly]

Ok, I still haven’t bought, but I really want a Kitfox STOL taildragger. I look at Barnstormer almost every day, but I remain confused as to what is a good buy. I would like a flying aircraft and I’m just curious as heck as to why there are so many unfinished kits, but I know I don’t want one. I am thinking that I haven’t been asking anyone with Kitfox experience about what their idea of a good purchase is, and how dumb for me to wing it when there are so many owner/pilots right hear on this forum. I hope to correct this.

I retired from United Airlines a few months ago after just short of 40 years and I am beginning to miss flying a lot. I look up for passing aircraft all the time and stop whatever I’m doing when I hear the growl of a radial engine. The blue sky and scattered bright white clouds that glow rainbow circles when you are above them; the cool air at 5000 ft.; the horses and deer running in the fields that only a pilot sees, these and a thousand things that are part of life and memories of an aviator are what I miss.

I think that I had better get an airplane and soon. So, I would like to ask: will those who have a little time, please look at the Kitfox market and tell me what you think?

Happy flying,
John

[efwd]

If I had the money and I was in your shoes, I would be looking into the really nice looking KF in Canada. It was reposted here on this forum today after the sale fell through.. There is a bunch of info I don't have since I have no need to investigate.
Eddie

[Dave S]

John,


I admire and encourage your enthusiasm for wanting to get back in the game on your own terms.


First off - there is nothing unusual about finding unfinished projects for sale - generally the majority of people who start building an experimental never complete the plane - just a plain fact. I will say that although you see unfinished Kitfox projects out there, the completion rate is probably much better for kitfoxes than experimentals in general which is due to the great support from the factory and information sharing on this forum and similar venues. The factory provides customary and usual kits, kits which have quick build options and they even make a ready to fly light sport.


Second - the reason you don't see that many used kitfoxes out there for sale is because folks who build them are just plain having too much fun with the aircraft to consider selling it. We build them and fly them - and seldom sell them. Ok, If I got eaten by a grizzly my relatives would probably be selling it:eek:.


Story good enough not to share - one of my Kitfox mentors and friends is a retired Delta pilot, previously Northwest who built and has been flying is S5 for years & years. My mentor because he was kind enough to provide me with stick time in his S5 sufficient to satisfy the interests of my insurance company. I have been paying it forward every chance I get ever since.:)



STOL taildragger, Kitfox pretty well fits that bill. In my case, I have a Kitfox with the odd wheel in the front; however, I have found even with standard tires and a nosewheel it still makes a far better off road vehicle than everything I have ever flown. While I haven't done any true backcountry flying, I have operated out of strips as short as 900 feet and had plenty of extra sod left after roll out.


If you don't want to build, I think your options are watching the ads, being patient or getting a ready to fly LSA.


Best of luck in your search

[avidflyer]

I think there is a great deal on a Kitfox 1 up in Mn on barnstormers now..... MINE!! :-) Anyway, have to agree with everything Dave just said. JImChuk

[Hockeystud87]

I feel like when everyone talks about Kitfoxes these days they talk about the 5 and newer. Are all these opinions of how great the Kitfox is in reference to the newer ones? What about the 4?

[Maverick]

Before you do anything further on trying to decide on a plane or the price of a good buy, you should get a ride in a KF. There are different versions of the KF with each successive version incorporating features from builders in the field to the new models. The KF7SS is the cream of the crop but there are versions 1 thru 7 out there. You need to know which does what.

Consider cockpit space. I am over six feet tall and nothing prior to the KF5 could I sit in comfortably. I rode in a KF4 on a trip from Apple Valley to Phoenix and it was so uncomfortable, I knew then I would never feel good with the 4.

As far as a buy, there is a great deal of variation in building of planes. Some like to build with the notion of showing it at fly-ins, Oshkosh, Sun'N'Fun, etc. Others prefer to build it strong for flying the way the KF is capable to the remote places it can go with little desire/need for a masterful paint scheme and Corinthian leather interior. Beauty costs both time and money.

And, consider flying time. There are KFs out there now with more than a thousand(s) hours on them. As a pilot, you are likely to recognize a decent plane when you see one but, if you get real interested, get a mechanic to look it over for you (I'm sure you know this).

Join the Experimental Aviation Association. Talk to local builders in TX. Get to know the other KF builders/owners near you.

If you are into flying and not building, consider a factory built from Kitfox Aircraft Co. Also, consider your flying future. If you think that you'll need to switch from private pilot to sport pilot in the future, you might want to be sure the plane is capable of being flown as a sport plane. A Kitfox with a gross weight greater than the sport plane restrictions wouldn't work when and if you had to switch.

And finally, an experimental airplane is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it so, it never hurts to make an offer of what you are willing to pay for a particular Kitfox.

[HighWing]

I feel like when everyone talks about Kitfoxes these days they talk about the 5 and newer. Are all these opinions of how great the Kitfox is in reference to the newer ones? What about the 4?

I am sure that if the IV was still available as a kit, there would be a lot more talk in the forum about that model. For me, there is nothing added in the newer models that tempt me in any way to "upgrade". The 1500 lb. gross weight, in my mind means more $ per hour and that's about it. Back when we were doing our annual flights to explore the mountains of Idaho, my sleeping bag weighed a pound and a half and packed to the size of a football. and my tent weighed 6 lbs. I do have to say, though that I am a medium in anything I wear and will acknowledge that a IV is about right for me, but would be a challenge for a lot of people I know.

John,
My wife beat you at United by four years, but her only hours in the cockpit were when one of you up front needed a little "relief". That said if you ever want to use one of your passes to fly to SMF, I would be glad to pick you up and bring you to Model IV country here. Three IVs at O61.

[Hockeystud87]

This is good to hear! I have a IV that I have yet to fly in and im 6'2". But only about 180lbs. Luckily not very wide. I think the performance from the IV is very impressive.

I wasn't aware that the IV wasn't even being sold any more. That makes a lot more sense. Cause I was just getting the impression people were going for the more "Cub" sized aircraft's than their smaller counter parts and wasn't sure why.

[jiott]

I believe the Model IV is still available as a kit, but on special order only.

[Hockeystud87]

Are they ordered less cause they're less desirable?

[efwd]

If I understand correctly the IV is supported on account of the European market. Don't quote me but I thinks its because it qualifies as an ultralight there.
Eddie

[Hockeystud87]

Interesting I wonder how many would still buy a IV here in the states over a 5+ if it was still sold.

[Horsefly]

Thanks all,

I'm definitely into flying...not building. I will be operating out of a short rough strip and feel that a tail wheel is best in playing the game of ground-loop vs. nose-over. Did both while flying the bush in Alaska...one's embarrassing the other very expensive.

I'm not sure how to find a local Kitfox owner. There is a map on this forum of owners, but I can't get it to work. I live in central Texas if any of you know someone down this way?

I probably should go with a 5 or above in that I'm six foot/210 lbs. Also, I want to stick with the more common Rotax engine 912** . There's a nice SS on Barnstormers that looks good except it has a Jabiru. The web has slightly too many bad comments on Jabs.

There is another SS that is a little over my price range and worse it looks like a Cub-Scout ( I believe it was to look like a Blue Angle, but...Opps). What's a paint job cost?

There's a 3 with wide-body (look for green) that is extremely well priced, and almost complete, but I'm thinking that if hasn't flown or is even under 50 hours that I have no idea what I'm getting into.

John

[Hockeystud87]

Thanks all,

I'm definitely into flying...not building. I will be operating out of a short rough strip and feel that a tail wheel is best in playing the game of ground-loop vs. nose-over. Did both while flying the bush in Alaska...one's embarrassing the other very expensive.

I'm not sure how to find a local Kitfox owner. There is a map on this forum of owners, but I can't get it to work. I live in central Texas if any of you know someone down this way?

I probably should go with a 5 or above in that I'm six foot/210 lbs. Also, I want to stick with the more common Rotax engine 912** . There's a nice SS on Barnstormers that looks good except it has a Jabiru. The web has slightly too many bad comments on Jabs.

There is another SS that is a little over my price range and worse it looks like a Cub-Scout ( I believe it was to look like a Blue Angle, but...Opps). What's a paint job cost?

There's a 3 with wide-body (look for green) that is extremely well priced, and almost complete, but I'm thinking that if hasn't flown or is even under 50 hours that I have no idea what I'm getting into.

John

I have a IV and have sat in it a few times. I'm 6'2" about 185. Im pretty tall and kinda lanky. and the IV is what I would call SNUG. I can still operate it fine. If you have more width than length IV I feel would be pretty tight.

[jiott]

FYI, I fly an SS7 and am 5"10", 210 lbs and fit just fine with about 6" headroom to spare. HOWEVER, a couple of times in bad turbulence with the seat belt cinched tight I have banged my head on the skylight pretty hard. Therefore I would be quite leery of purchasing a plane with only a couple inches of head clearance sitting on the ground.

[Horsefly]

FYI, I fly an SS7 and am 5"10", 210 lbs and fit just fine with about 6" headroom to spare. HOWEVER, a couple of times in bad turbulence with the seat belt cinched tight I have banged my head on the skylight pretty hard. Therefore I would be quite leery of purchasing a plane with only a couple inches of head clearance sitting on the ground.

Do the 5 through 7 have the same cabin dimensions?

[jiott]

I believe so.

[av8rps]

I'm 6 ft and 1/2 inch tall and weigh 185-195 (depending on lifestyle at the time), have a 34 waist with a 32 inseam, and fit just great in my Model 4-1200. I've also flown with a 245 lb friend who is slightly shorter than me, and with the clear plexi bubble doors we were both quite comfy. My Model 4 is way more comfortable for me than a Cessna 152 by comparison.

Would a bigger cabin be nice? Maybe? I also have a Just Aircraft Highlander, which has a huge cabin, and has lots of extra room. But in reality I like the snug feel of my Kitfox 4. Kind of feels like you put it on rather than just crawling in it.

Best thing to do is to go sit in different Kitfoxes to determine which one you prefer.

[Horsefly]

I'm 6 ft and 1/2 inch tall and weigh 185-195 (depending on lifestyle at the time), have a 34 waist with a 32 inseam, and fit just great in my Model 4-1200. I've also flown with a 245 lb friend who is slightly shorter than me, and with the clear plexi bubble doors we were both quite comfy. My Model 4 is way more comfortable for me than a Cessna 152 by comparison.

Would a bigger cabin be nice? Maybe? I also have a Just Aircraft Highlander, which has a huge cabin, and has lots of extra room. But in reality I like the snug feel of my Kitfox 4. Kind of feels like you put it on rather than just crawling in it.

Best thing to do is to go sit in different Kitfoxes to determine which one you prefer.

Thank you. I'm trying to find a Kitfox in Texas to look at, but no luck yet.