Private runway folks - How do you refuel?

[bagem]

Just curious how those of you who almost exclusively fly in and out of private grass strips refuel. Do you transport fuel in containers to your planes? Or do you purposely fly into places that sell fuel just to refuel?

[Mnflyer]

Hi I have a 260 gal fuel oil tank right in my hangar with a 12 VDC pump on it and have the local bulk guy deliver 91 oct. no alcohol fuel to me. For the Champ I have a barrel outside the hangar for 100 LL.

[Slyfox]

I don't have a private runway of sorts. I believe anytime I'm on the runway it's mine, so I guess I qualify.:rolleyes: Anyway, I use premium fuel from the local gas station. Yup it has the ethenol as well. I have two steel 5gal cans. I fill those up seal the opening, mine seal real good and throw them in the back of the pickup, yup I throw them in. I get to the airport and there I have a 5 gal plastic jug that I got from the local motorcycle shop, kind of like filling a nas car. I fill the plastic jug and than climb up a ladder and fill the airplane, no mess, nice and fast. I tip the jug up, it has a long hose, and let her go, making sure I touch the fill tube to the sides of the neck of the tank on the plane, makes sure no static problem. I fill from the steel to the plastic jug on a cement floor. Been doing this for 5 years now with no problems.

[Lion8]

I hanger at a private airfield as well. The way I fuel up is to pull the plane away from the hanger, place my gas container on top of a ladder and insert a 5/8" clear tube with a primer bulb in the middle. I start the fuel flow while do my preflight. You can make your own siphon hose from FDA grade 1/2" or bigger clear tubing and a primer built from a marine shop (boat store). I'm going to do the same thing with the fuel tank in the back of the pick up and a 12v automobile submersible fuel pump.
I also mix 100ll with auto fuel. In doing this I get the higher octane and cut the percentage of ethanol. Incidently, I use the clear blue fuel lines on the engine. The stay pliable throughout the flying season.

[wildirishtime]

So has anyone come up with a simple (read cheap) electric pump that I can pump gas out of small vesells into my tanks? Ive done some serious google searching and can't find anything very suitable. Anyone ever tried a car inline fuel pump? success or failure?

I want a clean safe way to easily move 5-10 gallons to my wing tanks in the field while out flying with no ladder.

Thanks
~Wild

[Tom Waid]

Click Here! (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/393724/377%20710/0/fuel%20transport/Secondary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377 710&Ne=0&Ntt=fuel transport&Ntk=Secondary Search&Ntx=mode matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=fuel transport&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=6&subdeptNum=78&classNum=79)

This may be what you're looking for. It's a bit pricey and, please note, the pump is extra.

I hope this is helpful.

Tom

[Slyfox]

years ago I use to fuel up my bassboat. How I did it was take a tank on the truck (I had three)and made it just for the boat. I than hosed from that tank and had a Ford frame rail pump(that's what we called them in the early 90's for the ford truck) and had everything hosed with a valve for the system. Worked very nice, just pull the hose out and stick it in the boat, open the valve and turn on the pump.

[wildirishtime]

Do you remember if your frame rail pump had enough pressure
to lift the fuel UP to wing height? Also, how long did it take
to fill 10 gallons? I thought those were high pressure very low
volume... but I have time and that's cheap enough if it will
lift vertically. Thanks!

[Slyfox]

Actually I worked at ford at the time and the one I used was a takeoff for a replacement. It worked very well and the amount of time was to me very fast to fill up the boat. If I were to do this again I wouldn't hesitate to use one again, maybe go to Motion auto parts and get one.

[Dave S]

Our fueling is done with 5 gallon plastic cans - keep 4 of them filled with 91 octane non-corn gas in a shed away from the airport - then throw them in the back of the pickup when it is time to fly.

Probably just me; but, I see hoisting the cans over the wing as a way to get some of the benefits of a health club without the membership fees. I had trouble with the health club folks anyway when I brought my full gas cans into the establishment for weight training..........;)

Another deal with doing one's own fueling - we use a tractor funnel with a chamois strapped over the top - this will catch any water and crud - I have found that some gas stations are more generous with water and crud than others - helps one with selecting a gas station.

Sincerely,
Dave S
KF7 Trigear
912ULS Warp

[kitfox2009]

I am a new Kitfox Vixen owner (imported to Canada from CA) and are planning on using a system of fueling by using a foot operated Zodiac inflatable boat pump. I have only tested this out with water so far but here is the idea.
Make up an assembly using about 6 ft of 1" plastic hose to connect the foot pump to the "vent fitting" on a plastic 5 gallon fuel container.

Make up another assembly with about 4 feet of 1" plastic hose and a "camlock fitting" on one end and a goose neck on the other that will hold well into the aircraft tank. Attach a solid plastic tube long enough to reach the bottom of a plastic jerry can to the screw cap fitting from the jerry can and a male cam lock at the top end.

The idea is to set the can on the ladder about level with the wing, insert the goose neck hose in the tank and "pressurize" the jerry can with the foot pump!!

This assembly can be easily switched from can to can.

I also plan on siphoning the fuel out the same way in order to maintain fresh fuel in the plane or when trailering to the airport.

Does anyone wish to comment on this system. Has anyone experience using a "Mr Funnel" for maintaining clean system?

Comments please.

don

[Dave Holl]

Read a review in an aviation mag last year about an austrailian aircraft that had a fuel pump built into the aircraft, what they did was stick the refuel tube into ta container and turn the pump on (using a/c power) then do the walk round when finished the tanks were full. The system was fully built into the airframe only the fuel container was seperate. I know I don't have much detailed info but the magazine article was a flight test and did not go into details (the system could also be used to pump fuel out of the a/c!) I would quite like to build something simlar into my MK7 but here in the UK it would require a major mod so probably won't bother
rgds
Dave

[dholly]

You can easily make an inexpensive D.I.Y. 12v fuel transfer pump system, here's one example:

http://www.alpharubicon.com/altenergy/fuelpump12vpike.htm

These are widely used on the tractor forums I visit for diesel transfer but I know pilots at private fields who use something similar for gas transfer. With this system you can even transfer directly from your auto/truck's primary fuel tank. Since the pump can be located in the middle of the run away from the tanks on either end, it helps minimize explosion concerns with gasoline. With proper care and use I really don't see it as any more dangerous than the electric boost pump you probably already have on your plane. Of course, you will still need take all necessary anti static and smoking precautions.

This is a very flexible alternative because it is portable and can be used with any transfer container and multiple fuels. I plan to make one and recommend the Mr. Gasket Micro Electric Fuel Pump Model No. 12S. Specs: 4-7 psi, 35 gph, compatible with all fuels and additives. This is a solid-state worry free electronics, self-priming pump with simple two-wire design for use on 12v negative ground systems only, and requires approximately one amp average draw at maximum delivery. Cost about $35, includes fittings and mounting hardware along with easy to follow DIY instructions.

Or, is it possible to pressurize your transfer tank to safely lift fuel from the ground up to your wing tanks?*** The portable 5gal plastic fuel jugs made by Blitz and approved for gasoline storage and transfer are designed to have the resilience to accommodate for fuel vapor expansion when it is hot outside. Underwriter Laboratories (UL) tests the Blitz containers to an ASTM F852 standard which includes a 20 psi test to allow for the expansion caused by fuel.

Why not simply add a tubeless tire valve stem above the full level, replace the spout with a big rubber stopper holding a copper dip tube long enough to reach the tank bottom in the filler neck, then run a line with a shut-off from the dip tube outlet to your wing tank. Better yet, add a valve stem to a 6gal poly marine fuel tank with an existing dip tube. Connect a low psi air pump and turn it on to push the fuel up. Kwik Tek's portable 12v air pump for inflatables or air mattresses has peak pressure ~3.0 psi. Part #AHP-120S for less than $20.

Again, just tossing out a few ideas and offering food for thought. I would expect no problem getting 6' of lift from either of these cheap DIY fuel transfer systems but personally am leary of pressurizing fuel tanks, even though it has been done. In any event, always use extreme caution, clear judgment and common sense when transferring flammable fuels.

***CAUTION: Use ONLY pumps and fuel containers approved for transfer of gasoline. Excessive tank pressure may lead to bursting. To prevent injury or death you MUST know the safety ratings of each component in the fuel transfer system.

[kitfoxvixen9095]

Last year I purchased a 500 gallon fuel tank from another airport. Had it filled with marine gas(no alchohol!!!!) and have been selling fuel to a few friends as well as using it myself. The problem with the small fields in this area that have fuel is that they are not always manned and when you fly a lot in the eveings as I do it makes it hard to get fuel.

[SkyPirate]

I have often thought of building a mobile fuel tank out of a 75 lb propane cylinder,..purge the tank first with carbon monoxide,..drill a hole on the top somewhere to install a tire valve stem. remove the propane valve and find a fitting that will allow a 1/2 inch tube to be placed thru it long enough to reach 1/2" from the bottom of the tank on the inside when the tank is standing,..or long enough to bend a small radius so it reaches the bottom if it's layed on its side,...if you do this ,.make some wood saddles and strap then to the tank so you know the tube is always on the bottom.
attach a 1/2" flexible line to this with the gate valve near the end,..or to be redundant put a gate valve at the opening on the tank and the end of the hose.
You can get a 1.5" threaded weldable nipple and a cap with a rubber gasket for a fill tube ,..to be placed on either the top if standing or side if layed down position..fill the tank with fuel..put the filler cap on tight and charge the tank with 45/50 lbs of air,..instant fuel until the airpressure equals the pressure at the height of the nozzle,..as for gallons of capacity in a 75 lb propane tank I'm gonna guess around 20 Gal.
I would imagine you'd have to play with the air pressure to find out what pressure would actually push all of the fuel out of the tank to an elevated height of a wing.

If someone had one of these propane tanks ..or knew where they could get one cheap ,..it would be a means for refueling that took only a little ingenuity to build ,.and of course time.

Chase

[t j]

It is only going to take about two psi to lift gasoline to the wing level. Think for a while about what could happen when you start putting a few pounds of pressure in a fuel tank.

[SkyPirate]

well I do think about pressure in the tank,..when I get my argon refilled for the welder ,..it's only 2500 psi ,..propane tanks are designed allot like oxy acetolyne tanks,.not as heavy ,..but I'm willing to bet they take 1200 psi all day long
unless your talking about the pressure going into the aircrafts tanks?

[t j]

I'm not worried about the tank not holding the pressure. Its the fuel under pressure in the hose and nozzle once the main valve on the tank is open that concerns me.

Murphy's law will prevail and someone will eventually put way to much pressure in the tank. Gasoline is going to spray all over the airplane when you open the nozzle.

Some rough calculations: Specific gravity of gasoline= .74
Head pressure = PSI/(.434 X .74)
50 PSI will lift gasoline 150 ft.

Air compressors and fuel tanks don't mix.

[Slyfox]

wow you guys are sure making a big deal out of something that you can just take a 5 gal jug http://www.motosport.com/dirtbike/product/LC-5-GALLON-JUG-WITH-HOSE/?psreferrer=http%253A%252F%252Fshopping.yahoo.com% 252Fsearch%253B_ylc%253DX3oDMTEwNm5yamNvBF9TAzc4ND cyNjE4NwRrAzUgZ2FsbG9uIGZ1ZWwganVn%253Fp%257Cequal to%257C5%2Bgallon%2Bfuel%2Bjug%257Camp%257Csem%257 Cequalto%257CYSM&catalogId=107849&segment=badgerup a latter and dump it in a tank. It's not like these planes use a lot of gas. I can usually get two flights out of 5 gals.

[SkyPirate]

most fuel lines can handle 45 to 50 lbs of pressure ,.thinking most fuel rails and lines for EFI vehicles are running near 45 psi,..
I'm willing to bet again that most lines would be able to take up to around 200 lbs psi.
It was just a thought ,,and if I have a thought ,.I usually think it through pretty good before sharing it
but I understand your concerns ,..not knowing can cause allot of uncertainty

Chase

[Slyfox]

I know I know. It just seems so whatever. I fill up my two 5 gal steel tanks http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/u440677 and throw them in the back of the pickup. Takes a couple minutes at the pump. Than I get to the hangar and throw those tanks in the hangar, my wife does it, figure that one. Than when I need the fuel, which isn't all that much concidering the RV. In which time I put the snout on the steel tank and lift it into the plastic jug and let it balance itself there until it is emptied. Than I look down in the jug, I have a white one, and check for water and junk. Than I put the ladder to the wing, have to do that anyway. Climb up the ladder with the jug, oh my god there is a job, shhhhh. I take the cap off, I put the tube in the hole, oh my, that's got to be a hard one, and than lift the jug, 3 minutes or less the fuel is in.

One thing, I never fill the tanks on the kitfox unless I take it out of town. That means I fly with 5 to 10 gallons tops for local flights. Also means that when I fly I have fresh fuel. If it's been a long time between flight, ya right not for me, than I just dump the steel tanks into my pickup and go get some fresh. If I have old fuel in the wing tanks, not likely, than either adding fresh will rejuvinate the old or I just stick a hose in the tank and empty it out, real quick and easy, than emty that into the pick up. With 5 gal in a 13 gal tank, you can usually fold the wing with no problems.

[SkyPirate]

I was just thinking of poor ole' folks like myself that are missing body parts or have prosthetic replacement parts ..not OEM one handed re fueling is a good thing.

PS ,..I want to send my wife to the school your wife went to ,..she won't lift a finger concerning a plane ,..how did you get your wife to lift a 5 gallon fuel tank?

[Slyfox]

In that case, go back to my previous post and get a fuel pump and small battery and actually put some hose on both sides of the pump, throw one end in the 5 gal tank and the other into the wing tank and let her rip. shouldn't take to long. But if there was a race, I would be up in the air while your still pumping gas.

[dholly]

Here are two more alternatives, both available from ACS

[Paul Z]

I found this Fuel Transfer Tank at Northern Supply
It is $50 cheaper than the same one at Sporty's Pilot Supplies. I am thinking of getting one of these. The Pump handle is a shiphon.

A review by one of the people that purchased it:
"1. Put gas caddy on top of a (flat top) garbage can or on a retaining wall around our driveway.
2. Put the caddy vertical. Unscrew the vent on the caddy filler cap. Pump the handle perhaps 5-10 times to get gas flowing. Verify flow by listening for the vent bit to make air noises.
3. Wedge the car's gas tank cap in the pump handle (like you would at a gas station). This allows it to siphon/pump on its own.
4. Do other things in the vicinity (check the car's oil, air pressure, clean the windows, whatever).
5. The gas really does stop flowing when the tank is full. I watched this happen a number of times and now trust that it happens on its own.
6. The nozzle end is ridged so it pops into the filler tube - don't have to worry about it dropping out.
7. I disconnect the hose every time as it stiffens up and looks like it's prone to crack. I hold the disconnected end up above my head and pump the remaining fuel into the tank before I go anywhere, reduces how much spills.
8. The hose also discolored (it's grey now, used to be black). It has some creases. I have a feeling it will have to be replaced at some point.
9. I refill it with the 5 gallon containers if necessary and repeat 1-4.
The shutoff valve works as it should. The vent/filler cap does not leak, unlike some of the other gas containers I have.
It holds about 14.5 gallons, maybe 15, without leaking or anything."

[Av8r3400]

Why not just use a regular 5-gallon gas can? :confused:

You folks seem to be going through a lot of trouble to solve a non-problem. At the most you have 13 gallons per wing, two or at most four cans will suffice without pumps or pressure vessels and the like.

Auto gas goes "flat" so quick you don't want to keep a bunch in the plane anyway...

[Slyfox]

We sure do think alike. look up post #23. To bad you are way over in Wisconsin.

[dholly]

Regardless of how one transports or stores their fuel off airport, there are folks who can not physically lift 5 gals to the wings or are simply not comfortable balancing on a ladder while dumping from a jug. Perhaps this thread will be of value for them.

[Slyfox]

that's pretty much what I came to the conclusion of also. Why not go down to a 2.5 gal at a time, that would do a half hour flight nicely.

maybe even get a small tank that has a bottom drain so you can sit the tank on the wing and than release the valve. Just thinking for the can't do to much pilot.

[Av8r3400]

One of these can be had for about $100. I have one in my hangar that works great. Many FBOs have them for fueling Cessna-type planes.

IMO, makes using a plain gas can very easy and safe. Set the full can on the wing, inboard of the filler neck and pour it in.

[SkyPirate]

I plan on putting a fuel tank on the nose of my trailer since I will be keeping the plane at home,.it will have an electric pump on it for re fueling,..and I do not plan on letting any plane I own sit long enough for any type of fuel to go bad it will get burned up quick ,..

the square box under the tail of the plane is a storage slash fuel tank.

Chase

[Av8r3400]

Paul, I totally understand. I also have back issues (degenerative disc disease). That is why I got the rolling platform. I put the cans (on a towel) on top of the wing tank and pour them in.

It works quite well and is not strenuous (to my back) at all.

I still think the best idea posted here is to have your wife do it...

[SkyPirate]

We need to fund a school for Steve's wife to teach other wives to carry fuel all agree say aye~!
I might have a problem with my wife carrying fuel ..she weighs about the same as 2- 5 gallon cans of gas,.I'd have to put ballast on her so she didn't tip over

[SkyPirate]

Chase

don't mean to cry about injuries but I have gained some extra weight ( alittle bit of steel) and missing a few parts here and there .. frag wound left leg,..scars from my right ankle to above my knee from an explosion,..lower back disc problems from compression,..a few prosthetic joints here and there,..all in all I get around ,..just not like i use to and I have not even cracked the age 60 yet ,..can't wait

I'm thinking we need to start that school asap

[SkyPirate]

Hi Paul ,..I have family in The Colony near Dallas ..we are going down for a visit ,..
But in 2 years ,..when this house is finished,..were selling,. we will be looking for property in Texas ,..somewhere where I can put in a private strip ..hunt off my back porch and very little zoning,..and close to an hour driving time from the family .
Right now we are 8 hours from Dallas driving time.

Chase

[Slyfox]

Ok, first leason, given when she was bring in the fuel last night. Bring in both containers at once, that way you keep balance.

Go down to the mex boarder and you can do all the hunting you want.

[Helili]

I tried an automotive 12 Volt fuel pump several years ago. It was pretty slow, and it wore out after a few months of use.

I bit the bullet and bought a fuel transfer pump similar to this one.
http://www.prohoists.com/Shopping.idc?ProductID=184
I mount it on a 50 gallon square tank loaded in my pickup. I supply 12 VDC from the pickup battery through the trailer connector via a plug on the pump wires.

John Hart

[IVPleasure]

In reply to Paul Z post #32 the Flon'go Duramax fuel transfer system is available at Costco for $89.99. Just picked one up this morning. Can'y wait to try it.