Can I be like Palmer?

[Hockeystud87]

Can I fly like Trent does in his model 5 but instead in a model 4?

I have this idea that all the models after 4 (5,6,7) are all "Real planes" more inline with the super cub. The 4 seems to be more like a go-cart.

[HighWing]

Let's see - same wing, same engine, same prop, 100 lbs lighter, or more - I always thought of a IV as more like a dirt bike, vs. a Gold Wing

[Hockeystud87]

The 4s are pretty light. just tight which I think makes it better for short stuff

[Av8r3400]

https://youtu.be/xoLbVFPlwFQ

Trent wishes he could be like me in my IV... :D:D:D:eek::D

[Hockeystud87]

https://youtu.be/xoLbVFPlwFQ

Trent wishes he could be like me in my IV... :D:D:D:eek::D

Those are awesome videos! That looks like a pretty new IV when was it made? What do you got hanging on the front of that?

I'm hoping to have mine flying here in about 2-3 weeks once I get the trailer on the airport.

[Slyfox]

if you followed me around you would be saying you would want to be like me. oh oh did I say that. I'm absolutely crazy with my 4 and I've been told I fly it like a helicopter. ooppps did I say that.

[Hockeystud87]

if you followed me around you would be saying you would want to be like me. oh oh did I say that. I'm absolutely crazy with my 4 and I've been told I fly it like a helicopter. ooppps did I say that.

Got any videos? I'm just trying to understand if 4's are legit back country planes or if I need to get into the 5's before I can do that stuff.

On paper the 4's seem to have better "Numbers" for short field stuff than the 5's up.

Also being a little heavier is nice in the wind.

I live in a HIGH wind area.

[mscotter]

Model 4's are legit back country planes. Depends on pilot more than the plane down in this performance regime I would say.

[Hockeystud87]

Model 4's are legit back country planes. Depends on pilot more than the plane down in this performance regime I would say.

I feel like I have the talent just not the experience. Which makes me willing but unable right?

How do you like your 4 in the wind?

[ken nougaret]

https://youtu.be/xoLbVFPlwFQ

Trent wishes he could be like me in my IV... :D:D:D:eek::D

I think that's impressive, 900' with trees. But what looks even more impressive is your house. It's beautiful.

[500helicrazy]

I fly my model 4 with a friend in his Carbon Cub and they are comparable planes when it comes to getting in and out of places. The 4 is an absolutely capable backcountry airplane. I have an 80hp 912 with a 2-blade Warpdrive prop and with me (about 190 lbs) and 3/4 fuel, I generally get off the ground in 200 feet or less, depending on winds, climb out at about 1100-1200 fpm, and can get in down and stopped in less than 400 feet no problem, usually around 300 feet, and that is with crappy brakes. I could probably get it in and stopped in under 200 feet easily if I had better brakes.



And as others have said prior, pilot experience plays a major part of whether a plane will do well in the backcountry.While I don't have a ton of hours, I have put over 100 hours in my model 4 over the last 5 months. It has a lot to do with being comfortable with your aircraft, which this plane has never had me feel otherwise. I absolutely love my model 4 and would only move up to a model 5/6/7 for the added gross weight if I ever HAD to have it for some reason.



Also, the 4 is a great crosswind airplane, have landed several times in 20+ knot winds and it has plenty of control authority. This plane has never had me scared on a landing, which I can't say the same for most of the other aircraft I have flown!

[Wheels]

I know I'm a low time nobody by comparison to some of the real pilots out on this forum, but, well, ... thems fightin words.

I think of the Model four more like an MG sports car with wings. I have had both.
I have a few hours in a Model 7. About 15 I think. I have about 70 hours in a highly modified super cub and about 750 hours in a Model IV Kitfox.
I'll take the IV for performance any day of the week, but with the caveat that you actually compare mission profile with aircraft profile.

The seven is a highly modifiable and configurable aircraft with about six different ways from Sunday to be outfitted. Stol wings, standard wings, speedster wings skis, floats, wheels, taildragger, trigear, turbo, Rotax, continental, etc.

The IV, out of the box has a couple engines for options, Rotax or Rotax, or maybe a frankenstein version of power plants that outweigh the original CG hopes of the design, Its 200 lbs lighter and actually a little narrower than the other ships and it is a simpler aircraft in fit, finish and overall construction. It's my plane of choice because of overall power to weight ratio in its standard configuration, Carries its own weight in gross, flies as fast as a 100 horse SS7 of the same horsepower and its ... wait for it ... cheaper.
If I had a 100k to drop on a plane, I WOULD buy a Seven and put it in the hangar WITH my IV. Then, and only then would I actually be King.
So, ... no. You can't fly like Palmer in a IV. But you can fly like Franklin, and you can fly like crazy.

[HighWing]

The last two posts are exactly as I feel. My Model IV was capable of much more than I was capable of. I've been in some pretty exciting places, and landed once in a cross wind that exceeded 25 mph, but miracles do happen. But, in my mind, to fly in the bush with a bush plane, it really helps to be a bush pilot.

[av8rps]

Larry, that is a GREAT video showing your 4 going in and out of your (well) obstructed 900 ft strip! There have been people wondering about short and obstructed strips here on the forum, your video does an awesome job of demonstrating what the plane will do if the pilot is skilled. Oh, and I notice you now taxi tail up a lot. I get razzed by my seaplane pals because I'm always step taxiing around on one float. Kind of the same thing as driving around tail up, so get ready for the razzing... They all think we are just showing off, but our Kitfoxes are so maneuverable compared to most other aircraft that they don't recognize it is more fun than work :)

I agree with the previous posts about the short field capability of the Model 4. Not knocking the newer, later Model Kitfoxes at all as I think they are awesome airplanes. But the 4 will make for a better short field airplane, simply for the fact it is significantly lighter. And with the right mods the 4 can really be a kick ass STOL airplane. Trent Palmer has mega modified his 5 and has demonstrated well what a competent pilot can do with a newer Kitfox (and his videos are awesome too!) And frankly I am really happy to see Kitfox being brought to the forefront of the STOL world. But I'm pretty convinced if you mega modified a Model 4 that it would blow away the crowd even more. Let's see, a 140 hp Super 912 with Nitrous, an 80 in prop, Oratex covered, and carbon fiber everything glass. Maybe even an airfoil change? Can you say 2500 or 3,000 fpm? :D

But of course you would lose some of the luxury appointments the newer Kitfoxes have, like a slightly larger cabin, bigger baggage, etc, etc. You could do that to your 4 if that was really desired, but most of us kinda like our 4's somewhat rugged like the back country Supercubs are. It's all about what a guy wants...

[Hockeystud87]

I'm excited to get proficient in the IV. The performance numbers people are saying are promising. Just need to get some good big tires on it and hopefully got fly in the back country.

How do you guys think the little plane handles the wind?

[HighWing]

How do you guys think the little plane handles the wind?

When returning home from Oshkosh several years ago we decided to land at Jackpot, NV for the night. On approach we could see a direct crosswind from the left. Our flight leader estimated 8 kts. Six of us landed - 5 Kitfox taildraggers and a Rans S-6 tri-gear. Pulling to the pumps we discovered we couldn't exit our airplanes in the wind without help. It was after deplaining that we discovered the wind was indicated at 26 mph. We all made it down OK. Thinking about it over the years, I feel that the eighth inch wide tape mounted vertically on the measured center of the windshield saved it for me. The tape was a result of an experience with a CFI giving a flight review who wanted to "play"for a few minutes with my Kitfox. Flying over the runway touching right then left wheels repeatedly down the runway, he scrubbed the rubeer off the outer side of both wheels down to the cord because I couldn't convince him he wasn't holding the airplane lined up with the runway. This because the typical tail dragged has the sides of the cowl parallel with the long axis of the fuselage. Not the bubble cowl which tapers toward the spinner. He lined up relying on the cowl side for what amounted to a crabbing touch on the two wheels each time he touched.

When on my approach to Jackpot, the tape was lined up with the far end of the runway and side slips slater, I was on the ground. Would I deliberately do it again? No chance - the airplane has abilities that go far beyond my skills.

[David47]

Lowell, Interesting comment you made in your write up about the CFI. I first started tw training in a Eurofox, which is about the size of a KF4. This aircraft had a Rotax 912uls and also had the inward tapered upper cowl. Every approach I did for the first 4 or 5 landings I was crabbing for the same reason as your CFI. I eventually got it sorted but I wish I’d had your centred 8” wide tape at the time ..... would have saved all the “line it up” shouts from my instructor !! :eek:

[Wheels]

You CAN ground loop a kit fox even on grove gear. I know this.
It can be done slowly in a 90 degree crosswind at Pullman Idaho.
It may just cause you to be more attentive for the rest of your career.
I know this too.
It may not harm anything but ego.
Anyone else agree? Or am I very very lonely?

[rosslr]

1/8" i think Dave?

r

[PaulSS]

Hahahaha, can you imagine a great big 8" strip of tape up the centre of the windscreen. That made me laugh :D

[David47]

1/8" i think Dave?

r

Uhm ..... yes ! :eek:

I’ll “lie down and take a Bex” .....

[rosslr]

Ha ha - showing your age now Dave!

Looking forward to your next update! We are going out the centre in a few weeks time - might come via your place but will ring to check if you are around.

r