Canadian Kitfox category/regisrtation?

[PlaidAvenger]

Hello,

I have a question for Canadian Kitfox flyers (or anyone who may be able to answer). How do you have your Kitfox registered in Canada?

I have seen Kitfoxes registered in the C-FABC or C-GABC series, and I've also seen them registered as C-IABC. If I am understanding this correctly, that means some Kitfoxes are registered as general aviation airplanes while others are registered in the advanced ultralight category.

I understand that all Aerotreks are considered advanced ultralights. Why would some Kitfoxes be registered one way while others are registered another way?

I've left several voicemails with Transport Canada, but nobody is getting back to me yet so that's why I'm asking here.

Thanks! :-)

[alandbrooks]

C-FAAA to C-FZZZ (Vintage aircraft (manufactured prior to 1957) may be registered CF- instead of C-F)[2]
C-GAAA to C-GZZZ
C-IAAA to C-IZZZ (ultralight aeroplanes only)
CF-AAA to CF-ZZZ (until 1974)[3]
VO-AAA to VO-ZZZ (used by Newfoundland until it became part of Canada with CF prefix in 1949.)

[PlaidAvenger]

Hi Alan,

Thank you for replying. I have seen this before, but thank you for posting it.

Unfortunately it does not seem to answer my question of why some Kitfoxeses are registered/categorised as an ultrlight while others are registered as what appears to be a general aviation airplane?

[Jfquebec]

My Kitfox as registered amateur build at the md-ra
Because i build it and a can't put it in aula catégorie

[kmach]

An advanced ultralight needs to be built by a factory or needs to have a Statement of Conformity, to state that it was built to factory standards. Not many factories will give this to a private built aircraft. Most AULA are factory built.C-I_ _

As a Canadian private builder of an ultralight (1200lb Gross) you have the choice of registering Basic Ultralight ( no passengers) C-I_ _ or Amateur built (passengers allowed).

For above the 1200lb gross, like a model 5,6,7 with a 1550lb gross you are limited to registering as an amateur built. C-F_ _ or C-G_ _

[PlaidAvenger]

Hello Kevin,

Thank you very much for your detailed reply. This is what I was trying to understand.

I am interested in the factory built SLSA Kitfox, which I understand is very much like the S7, and is 1320 lbs gross weight (so above the 1200lb gross).

So if it's factory built and above the 1200lb gross limit it's not amateur built, it's not ultralight, so how would it be categorized/registered?

Thanks

[kmach]

I would call Kitfox and ask them that one.

I think the 7SS SLSA still has the design capability of the 1550 gross , I think its just paperwork limited to fit the criteria of the SLSA.

I would think there should be a way for Kitfox to build a plane for you and register it as amateur built.

I think the waiting list is pretty long for the factory built planes.

[PlaidAvenger]

Thanks again for another reply,

I actually emailed Kitfox and John (the owner) replied to say that they'd be happy to build me a Kitfox but he wasn't sure exactly how I would register it in Canada. He said in the US it would be either LSA or Experimental Amateur built.

I know that Aerotrek builds aircraft similar to Kitfox and they build it in the US. They are able to roll it out of their factory and slap a Canadian advanced ultralight registration on it and you're able to fly it home to Canada.

From what I understand, ultralights can only fly day VFR. If a Kitfox was built with the proper equipment and registered in the appropriate category, I am hoping that one would be able to fly it at night, or IFR. Does that sound correct?

[alandbrooks]

Plaidadventure

Have a look at

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/standards/general-ccarcs-ownerresp-2042.htm

I don’t think the ss7 will qualify...I did not find it on the list for aula

[PlaidAvenger]

I wonder if that means it would be able to be classified/registered as a general aviation airplane?

I too looked through the list of AULA models, I did notice that Aerotrek isn't listed either, yet I know Aerotreks are registered as AULAs. Perhaps the list on Transport Canada's website needs updating?

I think this is confusing me more than I ever was studying for my PPL. :-p

[alandbrooks]

Try giving mdra a call. To my understanding you will get c-fxxx c-gxxx..we don’t have experimental catagory here...nor do we have to have the placard..

[PlaidAvenger]

Thank's Alan,

That's a good idea. Would you happen to know if I should speak with anyone in particular?

Ideally I think it would be great if a factory Kitfox could be registered as a GA airplane. Right now I have my basic PPL, but if I had my own plane that was capable, I'd be interested in adding a night rating, IFR, floats, etc.

[alandbrooks]

Here is the link

http://www.md-ra.com/en/

If you build the aircraft yourself and have a ppl with the ratings such as night, float etc you can fly the aircraft as though it was a Cessna no real difference

Here in Canada our Reg’s are slightly different..checkout the mdra website there is a ton of info...you don’t have to be the builder to enjoy the benefits...

The only ugly is the the owner maintained category for certified aircraft where you can’t fly the airplane in the us or sell the aircraft to the us.

There are tons of rules...

[PlaidAvenger]

Thank you, you are very helpful!

I should be able to give them a call tomorrow.

While I love the idea of building my own Kitfox, I don't have the space in my home to build one, that's why I'm looking at going the factory built one.

That's great to hear that as far as categorization goes it's possible to have it categorized similar to a Cessna so that I can go down the path of adding rating to my license and use them with the Kitfox.

Yes, through my research so far I do know I want to avoid the owner maintained category. I also hear that it really makes it hard to sell the aircraft on to another person here in Canada.

Thanks again! :-)

[alandbrooks]

I believe a factory built kit aircraft will be registered as amature build aircraft.

[PlaidAvenger]

I just got off the phone with MD-RA and thought I'd post what they said, just in case anyone else is looking for an answer.

If Kitfox builds does the build it will be classified as either a basic or advanced ultralight (and would therefore be restricted to daytime VFR).

To meet Canadian amateur built requirements 50% of the aircraft has to be individual/group built (and would not have any restrictions).

Thanks again for the help folks!

[kmach]

Well that's not going to work.

I don't believe Kitfox factory builds the model 4, which would fit the ultralight criteria. newer models will have the 1550 gross weight or 1320 SLSA.

Option 2, Buy a used SLSA , or 5,6,7 that has 100hrs of airtime and import and register as an amateur built .

[tracstarr]

I've been told by mdra in the past that as long as you are there to "supervise the build" anyone can build it for you and can be registered as amateur built. But, maybe the kicker is that it would be build in the USA?

[Esser]

The kicker is the inspections would have to be done in the USA. However, the "builder" would have to be able to answer any and all questions asked too.

Otherwise, you are 100% correct.

[PlaidAvenger]

The person I spoke with from MD-RA told me that they do two inspections, one before the covering and a final. You have to pay the travel cost, accommodation cost, and the MD-RA fees.

[JayPay]

Did anybody found a clear answer to this matter ?

I have been crawling trough the CAR's and other TC documents trying to find something.

There's a gray zone for planes that do not have a type certificate, are factory build but are above the 1232 lbs max gross weight for advanced ultra-lights.

JP