Reality check for a (somewhat) noob

[dbandel]

They say a "mid-life crisis" is really just the realization that the Universe is telling you that you DO have an "expiration date" and that it isn't screwing around, so you better get a move on towards those lifelong dreams.

Since I graduated high school back in the mid-80's I've had two loves; (1) old British cars (MG's Triumphs, Jaguars) and (2) I always wanted an Avid or a Kitfox. Right as I graduated college back in '89 I got married, but was able to convince the wife to help me go back to school and got my A&P at ERAU (Daytona Beach campus), but only got about 30 hours flight training before life and bills ended my flying. Then the downturn in the aviation industry in '92 forced a career change. Got my "aviation fix" by semi-annual pilgrimages to Sun & Fun or OSH as funds and schedule allowed, and kept my wrenching skills up by restoring old British cars as a hobby and working as a volunteer restoration technician at the National Air & Space Museum for a while.

So here I am nearly 28 years later, kids now grown, got a garage full of British cars but I'm still wanting that Kitfox, so I have a few questions I'd like your opinions on.

1) Private Pilot or Sport? In the DC/MD/VA area, can you really do anything with a sport pilot license?

2) Do many owners build their Kitfoxes and then use it for their flight training, or get training, rent as needed to build time and then build their Kitfoxes?

I've got a million other questions but figured I'd start easy. ;^)

[jiott]

I fly with a Sport Pilot ticket and am happy with it. You can go into any airspace (providing you have the endorsements) with it except class A. The only things you cannot do with it:

-Fly at night
-Fly above cloud layers where you have no reference to the ground.
-Fly in IFR conditions (VFR or MVFR is ok)
-Fly above 10,000'
-Can only fly "Light Sport" aircraft
-Fly in less than 3 mile visibility
-Canada does not recognize it, so no flying in Canada

[jiott]

Its pretty tough to build a Kitfox and then get flight training in it. Before you can train in it someone (not you) has to fly off the 40 hours Phase I test.

[aviator79]

If you can qualify for a Private, I'd say get a Private. As a Private Pilot, you can fly under Sport Pilot privileges/limitations if you choose, so you don't give anything up by getting a Private certificate, except paying for a little bit more training.

As Jim points out, it's not really practical to get training in the airplane you build unless you know someone who's willing to do your phase I flight testing for you. You can get your Sport or Private training anywhere, and then get some Kitfox-specific transition with Stick and Rudder in Idaho when you finish your build.

This forum has an enormous amount of information for you, so browse, search, and ask. You'll find this group to be a friendly and helpful bunch.

[avidflyer]

A friend of mine built an Avid while taking lessons for sport pilot in a Champ. Once he was cleared to solo, the instructor signed him off to solo in the Avid. It did save him something in aircraft rental that way. Was it legal? I'm not sure, but I know it happened. Eventually, he did the flight test for sport pilot in the Champ. JImChuk

[efwd]

Some people have big ba... or no brain, maybe both. I have a commercial with instrument rating. Just got my tailwheel endorsement and currency ride done. I still contemplate having someone else do my first flight. Who feels bold enough to get soloed and then go fly their brand new airplane for the first flight before rated? Man. I met a guy here by me who built his plane, then him and his flight instructor flew the first flight together. He is getting his private pilot license in his airplane before its finished phase one. Not legal. Its his butt I suppose but it doesnt reflect well on the experimental community if he balls it up and the FAA discovers that people take advantage of the privilege to build and fly our own stuff.
Eddie

[dbandel]

Thanks guys, I forgot about the issues around the 40 hour flight requirement on new builds and I'm definitely keeping it legal. I'm applying for my medical (shouldn't have any problems there) then proceeding with checking out training options in my area. My goal is private single engine with IFR and then get some taildragger time out in ID. Plan, prep and proceed....

-David

[avidflyer]

I should have clarified a little more about my friend. He wasn't a complete newbe to flying. He had built and flew ultralight gyrocopters before for quite a while. That may also explain why he walked slightly bow legged.... ;-) I wouldn't fly one of those things ever. JImChuk

[aviator79]

A friend of mine built an Avid while taking lessons for sport pilot in a Champ. Once he was cleared to solo, the instructor signed him off to solo in the Avid. It did save him something in aircraft rental that way. Was it legal? I'm not sure, but I know it happened. Eventually, he did the flight test for sport pilot in the Champ. JImChuk

Interestingly it's sort of legal for the instructor to make that sign-off. You're allowed to sign someone off to fly solo as long as you gave him the required instruction in a similar make and model. While I don't believe there are many grey areas in the regulations, what constitutes similar certainly seems to be one. I would bet that if there were an incident, the ruling on the field would be that the aircraft were not similar enough.

I also (shockingly) cannot find anything either in the regulations or standard operating limitations that would prohibit a student pilot from flying an E-AB solo during phase 1.

So as near as I can tell, this arrangement is probably legal at least until there's an incident. I will say that as an instructor, I wouldn't make this endorsement myself.

[beeryboats]

We must think alike. Both about the same age, an MGB and a mod IV both being SLOWLY restored.
jay

[av8rps]

I was a 100 hr private pilot in 1986 when I bought my 1st plane, which happened to be the Avid Flyer prototype. Of course at that time there were very few Avid Flyers around, and absolutely none in Wisconsin, so I called Dean Wilson to see if I were to go to Idaho if he could check me out in an Avid? After he questioned my flying experience for about a half hour he replied with "Save your time and money. If you learned to fly in a J-3 Cub, and have since flown a Cherokee, a 172, and a Tomahawk, you will have no trouble flying that Avid. But prepare yourself mentally for some performance you probably haven't experienced!"

So I took it down to the local grass strip and taxied it until I felt comfortable, then poured the coals to it. Dean was right, the performance was astonishing compared to anything else I had flown. It was off the ground in about a hundred feet and I was climbing out at a 45 degree angle at just under 1500 fpm. Wow! I shot about 30 landings with it, having more fun every time, landing shorter and shorter. I still vividly remember that day, as that was the day I really became sold on the design. And 32 years later I am still sold on the design :)