1320 vs 1550

[jrevens]

I know this has been discussed a lot on this forum previously, but I’m curious about how many builders of the models designed for a max. gross weight of 1550 lbs. have licensed their airplanes at 1320#. I think I know most of the pros & cons, but I’d also be interested in any further comments.

[jmodguy]

I'll be going 1320.

[PapuaPilot]

I went with 1550 and plan to keep doing a 3rd class medical. Now we have the Basic Med option. If I want to let my FAA medical expire I can still use my plane at 1550.

[jrevens]

When I registered mine I didn’t use the LSA specific application. Is that necessary, or can you just show 1320# max. on your weight & balance calculations?

I’m leaning towards the same as you Phil, but wonder if I might be making a mistake in my situation.

[Flybyjim]

I am going with 1320 when I register my SS7, I think there will be more buyers at the time this one would be sold down the road at this weight. I have not looked into the legalities of changing the weight at a later time to up the weight. I just sold this past week an Aeronca L16A that I was able to up the weight from 1220 to 1300 due to an installation of some extra brace tubes that were installed at some point in it's past life. I know this one is a certified plane and somewhere there was a 337 for this, maybe one can or can not change the weight on an expermental.

[neville]

I do not know if this is correct, however, it is my impression that a builder of experimental amateur built aircraft can use any gross weight up to the design limit of the machine and can change from 1320 to 1550 on a SS7 by calculating a new weight and balance. It might be that the a/c would have to go into a 5 hr phase one flight test test series and have a DAR issue a revised airworthy certificate. ????????????????

[jdmcbean]

IMHO.. simply use 1320 on your W&B.. DO NOT use the LSA application. It is still an E-AB. You can always increase gross weight but can not go down and remain eligible to be flown by a Sport Pilot.

[aviator79]

I do not know if this is correct, however, it is my impression that a builder of experimental amateur built aircraft can use any gross weight up to the design limit of the machine and can change from 1320 to 1550 on a SS7 by calculating a new weight and balance. It might be that the a/c would have to go into a 5 hr phase one flight test test series and have a DAR issue a revised airworthy certificate. ????????????????

This is correct, but it is for all intents and purposes irreversible. You could reduce the weight back to 1320, but the aircraft would no longer meet the definition of LSA and a Sport Pilot would not be able to fly it.

Possible resale to a Sport Pilot is the only reason to certify at the lower weight. My own thoughts are that since Basic Med, the resale may actually be close to a wash in the market. For every Sport Pilot looking for a plane, there may well be a Private or higher pilot looking for a plane who would prefer to be able to carry more weight.

[jiott]

I registered mine at 1320 because it needs to be Light Sport so I can fly as a Sport Pilot. As others have said, I also felt the resale would be better as a Light Sport.

The way things are now (basic Med) if I had a Private Pilot certificate I would register at 1550. I can still reregister at the higher weight if I decide to get a PPL, but you can never come back down to Light Sport as I understand it.

John, if you are PPL go for the 1550 in my opinion. There are many times I wish I had another 100 lbs or so additional rating.

[colospace]

I'm planning on going with the 1320. I have my Private and BasicMed, but my wife talks of getting her license (she does not want to be the clueless wife/passenger if I were conk out while airborne) and I figure it will be cheaper and quicker if she just gets the Light Sport license flying my plane.

[Dave S]

I went with 1550 and plan to keep doing a 3rd class medical. Now we have the Basic Med option. If I want to let my FAA medical expire I can still use my plane at 1550.


It has been a few years since our S7 got its AW; however, I followed the identical logic Phil did; although the basic med thing was only a gleam in anyone's eye at the time - still doing the Class III at present.

I do find the 1550 GW a very useful feature.

[tx_swordguy]

lots of people fly at or a "little over" gross. If you know you can safely load more your only worry would be IF you get ramp checked. You would vastly increase your resale eligibility because anyone SP or above could fly it . I have a friend that is in the same predicament but he is a SP currently and legally could not even fly the airplane he is building without more training. At some point you may not be able to keep your medical so having an LSA would come in handy. I know you have a thorp so that may be an issue later.

[TJay]

I don't under stand why you cannot register it at 1500lbs and if your only lsa rated just don't fly it above 1300lbs? Does this not work?

[aviator79]

I don't under stand why you cannot register it at 1500lbs and if your only lsa rated just don't fly it above 1300lbs? Does this not work?

That definitely doesn't work. An LSA must be 1320 lbs gross weight or less continuously since original certification, and if it isn't an LSA, a sport pilot can't fly it.

Only about 1% of active pilots are sport pilots, so I'm skeptical about vastly better resale values at the lower gross weight.. I would also expect that Basic Med will mean fewer new Sport pilots.

[N981MS]

I don't under stand why you cannot register it at 1500lbs and if your only lsa rated just don't fly it above 1300lbs? Does this not work?

Logically it works. Especially with a Kitfox since it could be originally registered LSA legal or not. Unfortunately, legally it does not work.

Unfortunately once an AC is registered above 1320 the LSA show is over. You could change to a new GW below 1320 but the FAA says it cannot be flown as an LSA. That is FAA logic.

[Flybyjim]

Hello,

You posted,That definitely doesn't work. An LSA must be 1320 lbs gross weight or less continuously since original certification, and if it isn't an LSA, a sport pilot can't fly it.

Only about 1% of active pilots are sport pilots, so I'm skeptical about vastly better resale values at the lower gross weight.. I would also expect that Basic Med will mean fewer new Sport pilots.

I am curious where you got this statistic of only 1% being sport pilots, where can I find that?

There seems to be some confusion on LSA planes/pilots. Any aircraft that meets the Regulations can be a light sport aircraft including certified aircraft such as but not limited to Champs, Cubs and so on. Many E/AB planes meet the regulations but are not classified/registered as an "LSA"

I personally know 11 pilots that are flying as sport pilots, some started that way, others have elected to not get their medical renewed as the sport rules fit their type flying and do not want/need a plane over 1320.

[aviator79]

I am curious where you got this statistic of only 1% being sport pilots, where can I find that?


https://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics/

In 2017, 6097/609,306 active pilots are sport pilots (darn near exactly 1%). The definition of "active" is a little weak, but unfortunately, it's pretty hard to make a definition that is actually measurable.

[Clark in AZ]

Yep, 1%...

Link to the FAA Excel Spreadsheet...

https://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics/media/2017-civil-airmen-stats.xlsx

Clark

[PapuaPilot]

I personally know 11 pilots that are flying as sport pilots, some started that way, others have elected to not get their medical renewed as the sport rules fit their type flying and do not want/need a plane over 1320.

But some of these pilots still have a private pilot or higher rating. They will show up on the FAA statistics with those ratings not the Sport Pilot.

[aviator79]

To be fair, the data aren't a direct reflection of desirability of an LSA. There's no way to tell how many pilots with more than sport certificates are flying under sport pilot rules to avoid a medical. Still, with basic med now an option for those pilots, I find it difficult to believe that the gross weight choice has that big of an effect on resale value, especially in the current market for used Kitfoxes. Maybe I'm wrong. The definitive answer would be to look at median historical sale prices, but who has time for that?

[Flybyjim]

Thank you for supplying the data from FAA, very interesting facts. Of the 11 folks I know that fly under the sport rules, 8 hold a private ticket, so I agree this is good information but could be a bit difficult to pin down the final % number. Once again this group brings good discussions forward.

[Ramos]

The only thing I know is that a nice KF on the block at a decent price, tends to get sold in fairly short order. I would say register at whatever weight best serves YOUR mission and don't look back.

[Paul Z]

I have a Private Pilots license, and a basic med. However, if I ever feel I might loose my license, I will go back to flying on my drivers license and fly a Light Sport Aircraft.

[TJay]

I would say register at whatever weight best serves YOUR mission and don't look back.[/quote]

Thats one of the best answers I have ever heard.

[PapuaPilot]

I would say register at whatever weight best serves YOUR mission and don't look back.

I agree with this. Has anyone else noticed the survey at the top of this thread has stayed about 50/50 the whole time? Enough said . . . ;)

[tx_swordguy]

No skin off my nose one way or another. I just sold my avid in four days on barnstormers and realistically I think you could probably sell a 1500lb rated kitfox easily as well. my experience with selling my plane leads me to believe there are alot of guys in the SP range looking for light and inexpensive planes. I have never been ramp checked (yet) but would assume that FAA will not be dragging around scales to see if you are sitting at 1320 or 1420. Maybe checking your papers etc (which by the way if you are a sport pilot and flying a plane rated at 1500lb would get you in trouble). Do what you want and if you are already a PP than it is no big deal anyway until you get so old that you cannot retain your medical.
Mark

[efwd]

There in lies the crux. I will be registering at 1320#. I have tens of thousands of dollars invested not to mention the time involved in building it. I have decades left to fly this thing. I do not wish to be the guy in 15-20 years who has to give up his flying because he wanted to fly their plane with an extra 200#. Maybe working in the healthcare industry has got me a bit jaded. It may not be that prevalent that people come down with ailments that ground them but I would rather keep the odds to a minimum for my own sanity. I have dreamed of doing this since I was 20 so it is damn important to me to be able to fly into my golden years.
Eddie