Getting ready to order

[Frontier Fox]

Gentlemen,

I will be ordering my kit in about a month or so and need to finalize the accessories ordered.
First of all I will let it be known that the “little wheel” will be at the rear of this aircraft. My main use of the Kitfox will initially be local and then later on some back country flying and possible cross country on a limited basis.

Below is a list of accessories I am considering and a few questions for you all.

1) Quick build wing
2) Speedster tail kit
3) Bottom false rib kit
4) Dual brake kit
5) Upgrade for light brake pedals
6) Adjustable rudder pedal kit
7) Pre-fab bracket kit
8) Bubble doors-tinted
9) Tinted windows
10) Wing lift strut speed fairing kit
11) Cabin heat kit
12) Wing tip upgrade
13) Door latch kit-dual pin
14) Oil fill door kit
15) Cargo bay kit
16) Trim position kit
17) Parking brake
18) Trim assist kit
19) Flush mounted wing tank quick drains

Questions:

Are the following included in the basic kit?

1) Fuel shut off valve
2) Cabin vent system
3) Lexan turtle deck

What is the purpose of the Aluminium close out butt rib? and do I need them?

So did I leave anything out that would be a definite must or are there some accessories that I listed not worth it?

Your opinions are welcomed.

Joe G.

[BobRS]

Joe
You are about to begin a great adventure in fun flying. Unless things have changed since I ordered my kit 6 years ago:

1) You'll probably get a fuel shut off valve with the firewall forward and engine order. I ordered the shutoff valve early and now have an extra.
2) The cabin vent is an accessory. You'll want to order that with the FWF since that is when you get the "bonnet" and firewall.
3) The lexan turtle deck came with my basic build kit.

You'll like (8) the bubble doors - a little extra elbow room.
If you're ordering a Rotax the cabin heater kit works really well!
Oil fill door kit (14) came with my FWF cowling kit
I bought the cargo kit (15), but used my sewing skills to extend it more to the rear subject to w&b (really light stuff). Do this before skinning the plane.
I did order just about everything else, but I'm flying a trigear

Best wishes and have fun building.

BobRS
SS7, Rotax 914, Flying Phase I
Albuquerque, NM

[jiott]

Joe, I will add a few things to Bob's comments:

- Will need an upholstery kit for seat cushions, carpet, etc. It is very nice.
- Will need the butt rib closeouts, or have to make them yourself. Closes the opening just above the doors between butt ribs and fuselage.
- I would order a couple extra inspection covers; you will need them.
- If you have any backcountry aspirations order the 8.50x 6 smooth tundra tires (or larger) and tubes, rather than the standard kit tires.
- Also for backcountry operation, you will probably want the heavier duty ABW tailwheel, and possibly the heavier duty Grove aluminum tailwheel spring.
- I would also suggest ordering the ACK ELT (406 mHz) from Kitfox. It is much easier to mount it and the antenna while you are building the fuselage rather than later.

Have fun! Exciting days.
Hope to meet you one of these days; I am based in Oregon City (Fairways).

[ken nougaret]

Is the aluminum header tank now standard? If not you will want that.

[DesertFox4]

Pretty sure the aluminum header tank is now standard Ken.

I would get the Kitfox Builder's Tool Kit if you do not have any aircraft building tools. All the reamers you will immediately need when you start building the fuselage are included along with correct size assortment of drill bits, clecos of various sizes ect. The Kitfox Aircraft website currently lists it at $399.00 for the kit.

You may not need the double pin door latches if going with the bubble doors.
Check that out with Debra before ordering.

The fuel shutoff valve should be in the kit along with the turtle deck.
My instinct tells me none of the vent parts will be standard with the kit as there are several ways to vent the cockpit now. You could ask Debra at order time or email her with any questions like that.

I am partial to the Laker Leading Edge option but it certainly is not a requirement for an incredible flying Kitfox. I just love the way a LLE equipped Kitfox feels especially in the low end of the Kitfox speed range.


Looks like a good list Joe. There might be other things that pop up during the build but Kitfox Aircraft can handle most of those for you.
Exciting times just ahead for you. Congratulations on your decision.

****If you have to wait a couple months for delivery of your kit, see if you can have your build manual and maybe the PolyFiber manual shipped to you right away so you can spend time going over them prior to your kits arrival.

[aviator79]

That looks pretty similar to my order. There are a few things I plan to install that I didn't order right away, such as the cargo bay kit, and anything that would go on with or after the Firewall Foward. I did this for a couple reasons:

1) I will almost certainly have to order more stuff from Kitfox, so there's really no harm in not buying stuff a year before I need it.

2) 75% of kit aircraft are not completed by the person who first buys the kit. While I certainly plan on being in the 25%, so does everybody else when they place their order. So there is substantial financial risk in buying a kit. The more stuff you buy up front, the more you're putting at risk.

3) I only have so much space, so the fewer items I have to store, the better.

I do agree that the Builder's took kit is smart. I'd consider it a "starter kit". It doesn't have enough consumables to finish your plane, but when you're getting started and need a reamer, drill bit, paper cup, popsicle stick, etc, you'll have it, and know that you should probably buy more of them. But it will prevent you from being stuck waiting for something that you didn't know you needed.

[Rodney]

There is an assist spring that lightens stick pressure when the flaps are deployed.

I put one on last year and found it to be a very good addition. It may be something you might wish to consider.

Your gonna love a Kitfox. It’s a great airplane.

Regards
Rodney

[Frontier Fox]

Jim

Are the butt rib close outs that you suggested, the aluminum ones listed in the parts store?

Also is it necessary to order the upholstery right away or could that be done later? I haven't given much thought to colors etc.

Great tip on installing the ELT before covering, thank you!

I'm not sure if I will equip the airplane with back country tires right away, need to ponder for a while.


DesertFox4

I neglected to list the tool kit but I will be getting one.

When my wife and I were at the Flyin last summer I looked at John's new Speedster, the pretty green and black one, It has bubble doors with the double pin latches, a very neat and secure latch, the handle is flush with the surface of the bubble door. That is why I chose to order them.

I'm not sure about the LLE. That's a lot of money and labor. I'm not sure if it is worth it. I have read the posts recently and opinions vary.

That's a good idea about getting the build manual and the Polyfiber manual now...Thank you

Aviator79

I'm quite sure that I will be in the 25%...I'm a stubborn Irishman.

As far as building and storage space I don't see that as a problem. I will be posting a few pics of my work area, (before and after) in a few weeks when it is organized.

Rodney

I will be getting the assist spring, It's number 18 on my list, but thanks for the tip!

Thank you all for your responses.

JoeG

[aviator79]

On the LLE: The labor really wasn't that much. I just looked back at my log and figure I have about 8 hours into the LLE on the right wing including filleting the transitions to the fuel tank and ribs with Super Fil. I'm guessing that this probably wasn't even necessary; anti-chafe and finish tapes would have probably done the trick. I will admit, however, that $1000 for four pieces of fiberglass is pretty steep. The factory planes don't have the LLE, so clearly the plane flies fine without them. When I saw them and thought about the fact that I dropped $1000 bucks on them, I did have a moment of buyer's remorse. It quickly faded though, and I'm glad I got them.

For me, this item was one of those where I didn't want to look back and wish I'd installed them. In the context of the whole project, the cost and time invested are pretty small.

[jiott]

Joe, yes the aluminum closeouts listed are the ones you will need.
The upholstery kit can, and should if your colors are not settled, be ordered later. Just don't order at the last minute because that kit has a long lead time, and I know a few others who waited too long and then had to wait several months to get it.
Regarding backcountry tires, the 8.50x 6 tires cost very little more than the standard kit tires and are a great compromise for both pavement and semi-rough strips.

[Esser]

I’ll probably be selling my 8.50s this fall. They are brand new right now and will probably only have 100 hours of grass operation on them by then. Might even sell them sooner

[Floog]

Hey, Josh. I might be interested in buying those 850's. Are they Dessers? I'd like right of first refusal. I have a pair on now with 1,225 hours on them.

[Frontier Fox]

Doug
I’m a long way from needing the 8.50’s so you go ahead.

JoeG

[Esser]

Hey, Josh. I might be interested in buying those 850's. Are they Dessers? I'd like right of first refusal. I have a pair on now with 1,225 hours on them.

They aren’t smoothy 8.50 FYI. They have an inner tube and tread. If you still want first right of refusal, you’ll have it!

[ken nougaret]

I'll take second right of refusal. I dont want smoothies. No hurry though. Just putting my name in the hat.

Ken

[Floog]

Thanks, Josh but I think I'm gonna stick with the smoothies. The 850s I have sling a lot of stuff under the wing as it is. I'm gonna prolly come up with some mud flaps like those I've seen posted here. Whoever posted those pictures, thanks!

[Flyboy66]

****If you have to wait a couple months for delivery of your kit, see if you can have your build manual and maybe the PolyFiber manual shipped to you right away so you can spend time going over them prior to your kits arrival.

I just went on amazon and bought the poly fiber book for about $13 I think. Kitfox has the manual on the website, so I just downloaded it and printed so I could peruse and make notes for when the kit arrives.

I have done the poly fiber book cover to cover, and have a game plan for covering and painting.

The construction manual has been nice to look at as well. Now that I have had a chance to read about rigging the wings, I have decided that it should be within my abilities and comfort zone to do myself. Obviously, it might not be the most current, but it gave me a chance to decide what options I wanted to order, and make notes to myself that can be transferred to the official manual.

[Cherrybark]

I was happy to have purchased the Took Kit from Kitfox. The assortment of reamers, the long drill bits, the Cleco pliers and fasteners, and other items were nice to have.

You'll want to find a quality index of drill bits along with at least a dozen each of the #30 & #40. After tiring of dull bits, think about a Drill Doctor. Pleasant to work with sharp cutting tools!

A pneumatic rivet gun is very nice to have on hand. These items will be used fairly early in the build.

Building the Kitfox is a great adventure with wonderful support from both the factory and people on this site. Don't be shy about asking questions. My build has gone a lot smoother with this help. Enjoy the experience rather than focusing on the completion.

[Frontier Fox]

Carl

Thank you for the advise. It is greatly appreciated.

I have been sitting here at home making a list of the tools I will begin to acquire starting tomorrow. A drill index is on the list as well as a pneumatic riveter.

I had to smile when I read “enjoy the experience rather than focusing on the completion “. I used to build and fly remote years ago. I enjoyed the build as much or more than flying.

I have been watching your progress from the start. Nice work!

Joe G

[Frontier Fox]

I am considering going ahead and getting the Desser 8.50/6/4 when I order but I have one question first. Correct me if I’m wrong but do I use the same wheels? Pretty sure I read a post that said to use the same wheels, just wanted to clarify.

Also, as long as I’m at it I was thinking of using a T-3 tailwheel suspension. I’m unsure which would be the best tailwheel assembly to use. Two are listed in the Kitfox store: Tundra ABI 3200b and the Standard 3200 Kitfox (guess I could ask Debra what the difference is)
On the Airframes Alaska site they recommend either a Scott or an ABI 3200 so I am not sure which of these would be the best option.

Your thoughts

Joe

[PapuaPilot]

You can use the same wheels if you plan to use the Desser 850x6 tires. It is a 6" rim.

As far as a tailwheel it really depends on what type of flying you are wanting to do:
-The ABI 3200 standard will work just fine for any type of back country or unimproved airstrip. Unless you want to do some serious off roading this is all you would really need. Of course need and want are different things. ;)

-The ABI 3200b is different from the standard one in that it has a wider fork to accommodate a bigger tire. You would want this if you plan to go to unimproved locations that might have big rocks, bumps/holes, bushes, branches, etc. Of course the replacement tire and tube are going to cost a lot more when it goes flat.

-The T-3 tail wheel has a shock absorber instead of a spring, but it appears to have the same tire as the 3200 standard. This would also be for someone wanting to land it at places where you might encounter rocks, bumps, holes or doing STOL landings where you are dropping it in on the tail. This definitely has a high cool factor.

[jiott]

The only down side to the heavy duty tailwheels and the T3 shock mount is added weight to the already somewhat heavy Kitfox tail. I have the 3200 standard and no T3, and my tail weight is over 100 lbs. What this means is it is easier to run out of rear CG before you fill up the baggage compartment. Its worth it to me and most folks, but just be aware. The 3200 std is quite a bit heavier than the Matco that comes with the kit, and the 3200b wide fork with baby bushwheel tire is heavier yet. Of course the T3 is heavier than the standard tailwheel spring.

[David47]

Jim/Phil,

Do you know if the T3 suspension can be fitted using the standard Kitfox Matco 8" tailwheel assembly ?.

[Frontier Fox]

Thank you for the information, Phil and Jim.

I was unaware of the C.G. problems this change would make.

Maybe my best bet would be to forget about the T-3 and go with the aluminum tailwheel assembly and a standard 3200 wheel.

Does this sound like a better idea?

Joe

[AirFox]

Hay Joe,

I installed the t3 with ABW 3200. Don't notice any difference in tail weight from running the stock spring or the Grove spring. My Tail weight was 65 when I built it. I would not say that is a problem and the difference of maybe a pound(T3 to stock spring) is not going to make much of a difference.

Scott

[jiott]

I hope I didn't make it sound like a problem, just an FYI to be aware of. The Kitfox has a 150 lb baggage compartment limit, but I can't get anywhere close to that weight in mine without running out of rear CG.

[Frontier Fox]

Scott and Jim

I am curious now as to why there is 35 pounds diffence in the tail weights of your airplanes. They are both SS7’s.

Are they equipped differently?

Joe

[AirFox]

I think some of the difference is the Airmaster (26 lb) on the front of my plane.

[PapuaPilot]

Scott and Jim

I am curious now as to why there is 35 pounds diffence in the tail weights of your airplanes. They are both SS7’s.


My tail weight was 53 pounds and I am at the forward end of the CG range. This allows me to load well over 100 pounds in the baggage area.

It has a lot to do with your engine and prop choices as well as were you mount other things like the battery and avionics. When I built mine I knew I had a heavy engine and did everything I could to make sure I wouldn't be out the forward CG limit. I put as much stuff in the tail area (battery, radios, ELT) and to lighten up the FWF area.

[Frontier Fox]

I think my best course is to find out out what the lightest combination is for the tail wheel assembly. On the forward end it will most likely be a Rotax 192uls and a fix pitch prop.
I will find out when I call next week.

Thank you all for the great information.

Joe G

[jiott]

Joe, don't get fixated on the lightest tail weight. As Scott says, the somewhat extra weight of a good heavy duty, and shock mounted, tailwheel is well worth the somewhat reduced baggage capacity. Even with a chock full baggage compartment of light weight camping gear, it is hard to get up to 150 lbs.

[Floog]

Joe, the basic kit comes with a good tail wheel. It's a Matco. It comes with a a leaf spring that absorbs the punishment. It's light weight and low drag. I've had it on there for 3 1/2 years and 1,300 hours with no issues. (On gravel bars yesterday with AirFox and we both made it on and off with all the airplane parts intact.) Years ago, planes had skids. I'm thinking of going back to that on KISS principle :) Either way, you're gonna have a blast with your FOX!

[jiott]

I won't disagree with Floog's statement (well maybe a little) but what he didn't tell you is that he is a master at wheel landings. I don't believe I have ever observed one of his landings where the tailwheel touched the ground until the last minute at very slow speed. If you consistently land like he does, a wheelchair caster would work fine as a tailwheel.

[Floog]

Thanks for the nice compliment, Jim. Finally, a master at something besides just hogwash:)
Wheelchair caster....hmmmm??