Bubble door option

[Flyboy66]

Is the bubble door option just the lexan, or is it a whole new door frame with the lexan? What comes in the option?

[Flybyjim]

The bubble door option is not Lexan it is acrylic, very sturdy. The door frame is the same for either the flat glass or the bubble door. I just finished mounting my bubble door a couple weeks ago, I am glad I got this option for the extra room, looks good also.

[Flyboy66]

So, if I order the standard kit, and later order he bubble doors, I remove the standard acrylic and then nstall the bubbles?

[Flybyjim]

I guess you could add it later but there would be an extra cost for the separate shipping. It would be nice if you could find a Kitfox to sit in before you make this choice.

[jrevens]

So, if I order the standard kit, and later order he bubble doors, I remove the standard acrylic and then nstall the bubbles?

Hi Steve,

Just for clarification... the "standard" doors are polycarbonate, and the "bubble" doors are acrylic.

[Flyboy66]

So, the question as it should have been written is: If I order the bubble door option, it is $699 (or whatever the list price is) whether I get it with the kit or order later. That leads me to believe that it must be only the acrylic that I am buying, and not the whole door, correct? If I order later, then I add shipping to that price (I do understand this part).

So, the only difference between the two styles is the material that is mounted on the door frame?

I plan on getting the bubble door option, but am waiting until closer to delivery date to make sure I don’t have any surprise expenses that crimp me financially. I just want to understand the difference.

Steve

[colospace]

Steve, if you do not order the bubble doors at initial purchase, you will receive with the Fuselage Kit a couple of sheets of Lexan that you would then toss over into the scrap corner since you would not be using it once you received your bubble door material.

[aviator79]

My bubble doors were dropshipped along with the windshield direct from LP Aeroplastics. They arrived via Fedex Freight. My box was bigger to accomodate the windshield, but just the doors would still be a rather large box. What I'm saying is the shipping cost will probably not be insignificant, even in relation to a $700 purchase. If you want the bubble doors, spend the $700. You're going to invest too much time an money in this project to finish and wish that you had bubble doors. Obviously if you take this approach on every option, it can get very expensive, but $700 really isn't much in relation to the project cost.

[Flyboy66]

I actually wouldn’t mind having the spare lexan in my garage in case something happens to the bubble doors. It would give me a way to get flying until/if replacements are ordered.

I saw a comment about the fuel tank drain valves being different if the bubble doors are installed. Please tell me about that. If they are different, can I specify that I want those fuel tank drain valves sent with the kit instead of the standard drains?

[jiott]

Yes, you will want the "flush" wing drain valves that don't hang down and contact the bubble doors when opened. Just specify this option when you order the kit.

[jrthomas]

I saw a comment about the fuel tank drain valves being different if the bubble doors are installed. Please tell me about that. If they are different, can I specify that I want those fuel tank drain valves sent with the kit instead of the standard drains?[/QUOTE]

I have the bubble doors and the wing tank valves are not a problem. I just installed the hydraulic door lifts (those shock looking things)where the bubble doors wouldn't touch the valves. James Thomas

[jiott]

The flush valves look nicer, and allow you to open the door further.

[jrevens]

Just to add some additional confusion to the mix, Steve, the Lexan door material as received from Kitfox are not flat sheets... they have a bend in them from the factory. They are made to fit tightly against the whole door frame. FWIW, I have Lexan and like them. I’m a skinny guy and don’t need as much shoulder room as some, and the Super Sport is already a little wider in that area than say a Mod. 4. Pros - less expensive and tougher/stronger than acrylic. Cons - less scratch resistant and vulnerable to attack by fuel.

[jrevens]

Based on the position of the lift strut mounting tabs that were welded to my fuselage, and the lift struts I received from Kitfox, it was impossible to mount them where the doors would come anywhere close to hitting the standard drain valves. In fact, I wish my doors were able to open wider. I see some doors that open the same amount as mine, and others that obviously open wider. I wonder if Kitfox has adjusted the position where they install those tabs sometime in the past? Choosing a strut with a different length and throw would not solve this issue, as the tabs are fixed, as I said, and when fully collapsed the struts must allow full door closure of course. The attach point position on the door frames themselves makes very little difference, and certainly not enough to allow any appreciably wider opening, at least with what I got.

[aviator79]

I wonder if Kitfox has adjusted the position where they install those tabs sometime in the past?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Don't the holes in those tabs have to be coaxial with the rear spar attach lug to fold the wings?

[jiott]

Because the bubble in the bubble door sticks out farther, you will want to install your gas struts so the bubble comes as close to the wing as practical (thus the flush drain valves) in order to have the door open as much as possible. Even at max opening it still requires a lot of ducking under.

A caution however, I installed mine so the bubble comes to within about 1/2" of the underside of the wing to give myself as much door opening as possible. The 1/2" seems like enough clearance but it is not. When my door is open and the engine is running, there is enough vibration and prop slipstream to cause the door to jump around enough to actually contact the wing, causing some abrasion on my door plexiglass. I recommend about 1" of clearance when everything is static. Because of this I don't fly with my door open. One of these days I will fix it, but it is not easy to do.

[jrevens]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Don't the holes in those tabs have to be coaxial with the rear spar attach lug to fold the wings?

“Lift struts” was a poor choice of words by me... what I was refering to are the door “lifting” struts or gas struts. Sorry about that.

[Flyboy66]

I plan on bubble doors, but if there are unexpected expenses prior to picking up the kit (car accident, furnace failure...) then the plan may change.

[David47]

Has anyone actually made their own bubble door transparency ?. I really should have ordered this option first up but as I live in Aus, freight will be a killer. Just interested to know ...

[kitfox2009]

Hi David
I have a 90's Vixen and a couple of years ago converted to full view doors. I purchased material from aviation dept in Home Depot. With a lot of care and a good heat gun managed to bend the material in order to get a good fits all around the perimeter frame. Used double sided tape and self tapping screws for attachment.
It is no wider than before but provides clear viewing and does not interfere with wing tank valves. I believe the Vixen is the same width as S7.
The material is pretty cheap and worth a try if you have the time!
Cheers Don

[Flyboy66]

Thanks Gary. Are you building, or is your Kitfox flying?

Steve

[fathom]

Hi David
I have a 90's Vixen and a couple of years ago converted to full view doors. I purchased material from aviation dept in Home Depot. With a lot of care and a good heat gun managed to bend the material in order to get a good fits all around the perimeter frame. Used double sided tape and self tapping screws for attachment.
It is no wider than before but provides clear viewing and does not interfere with wing tank valves. I believe the Vixen is the same width as S7.
The material is pretty cheap and worth a try if you have the time!
Cheers Don

Do you have any pictures of the result? Curious about doing something similar...

[colospace]

Thanks Gary. Are you building, or is your Kitfox flying?

Steve

Steve, I am still building, but I do have 98% of the plane up at the hangar as of last Friday. I am working on the lift and jury (thanks Lowell) strut fairings currently.

[David47]

Hi David
I have a 90's Vixen and a couple of years ago converted to full view doors. I purchased material from aviation dept in Home Depot. With a lot of care and a good heat gun managed to bend the material in order to get a good fits all around the perimeter frame. Used double sided tape and self tapping screws for attachment.
It is no wider than before but provides clear viewing and does not interfere with wing tank valves. I believe the Vixen is the same width as S7.
The material is pretty cheap and worth a try if you have the time!
Cheers Don

Thanks Don. I'm semi-retired so I definitely have the time. Might just give this a try.

[kitfox2009]

HI guys
I'll try and remember to take some pics. If the weather cooperates I'll be flying gain tomorrow.
Don

[jrevens]

Don and David,

If the Vixen doors are basically the same as the Super Sport, then the standard "flat" plastic panels (polycarbonate/Lexan) have a simple straight bend in the middle to make the panel follow the contour of the frame. That bend can be simply cold-bent in a sheet metal bending brake, or a press brake... no heat required. I'm sure that is how the factory bends them. Very easy if you have access to a brake. The stuff is very tough... you'd be hard-pressed to make it crack, even if you were trying.

[David47]

Thanks John. I have some spare material so I'll give that a try. Don't have a brake press but I'm good at adapting things !!

[kitfox2009]

Here are a few pics of my Vixen doors. Been a couple of years now and seem to be fine. You can see a bit of fuel stain from the non ethenol marked premium fuel that I use . Probably from open door hitting the drain.
Last pic shows my low budget access hatch to the rear cargo bag, Ideal for light items like sleeping bag, sun covers, dried food emergency rations,etc.

[kitfox2009]

Also made up these flapperon control wind stop pieces with some of the left over material. These pretty much seal the drafts in this area. Easy to install as well.
That's about it for low budget mods.
Cheers
Don

[David47]

Thanks for the photos Don. You've made some nice mods to your plane. Decided I'm going to have a go at making my own bubble door as you have. I also like that piano hinged side access door to the baggage area, and the split turtledeck, similar to what John Evens has done. Very useful mods.

[kitfox2009]

Hi David
I don't use the small hinged side door much but the removable turtle deck section is really handy. I added an additional baggage sack for bulky light items leaving the forward one free for heavy stuff.
Good luck with the doors. The horizontal bar on the door frame is bowed out slightly requiring a bit of compound bending on the window material.
Cheers Don

[jiott]

How do you use a side baggage door when the baggage sack (factory) completely covers both sides? I suppose you modify or make your own sack with velcro side panel?

[jrevens]

...
Good luck with the doors. The horizontal bar on the door frame is bowed out slightly requiring a bit of compound bending on the window material.
Cheers Don

FWIW, there is no compound bending needed on my doors... it is a simple flat bend.

What you did on your Vixen looks very nice, Don!