Garmin Panel - trying to figure out all the details

[tracstarr]

So as I try to plan my build and work out costs, I'm looking at trying to determine all the things (little and big) needed to complete a panel. I don't want just this panel costs x, but looking to try and include the things like antenna, batteries, and whatever else I don't know about or understand yet.

I know everyone has opinions, but I've decided on Garmin, and want to stick to all Garmin products. I want a clean simple panel, so plan on remote/hidden mount items. (like comm)

I also want to make sure I can fly day and night VFR and OTT - which i know probably adds a few things I won't need 90% of the time - but this is what I want. Along with autopilot.

So, here's the list I have so far. If anyone can help point out things I'm missing would be great.


G3X Touch 10" PFD
G3X Touch 10" MFD (which would double as my backup PFD for night vfr/ott - I think that's allowed?)
GMU 11 - magnetometer
GSU 25 - ADAHRS
GTP 59 - temp probe
GTR 20 - remote comm
GA 56 low profile antenna
GMC 307 auto pilot (might delete and just use controls on G3X)
Servos for AP
GTX 45R transponder
GPS 20A (adsb out)
GEA 24 engine module for rotax
GAD 27 Electronic Adapter Unit
ELT
Battery (what kind are people using? Is this the same as the starter battery? Or use a second backup as well?)


So, it's a big list, which adds up fast. Do I need to look for wiring harness? What about fuses? What are people using? Where do I look for those? And switches for master etc. ?

Thanks. It all seems pretty daunting right now. It's a big undertaking so I want to make sure I understand the full scope.

[Esser]

I used this for fuses. https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/pages/el/circuitbreakers_zpanels/spt-fuserelay-1.php

Sorry I just realized hats the Canadian site. Tha unit is very high quality. I love it. I have it mounted under the panel face down on the passenger side. It’s easy to get at the fuses and keeps the panel clean. Much cheaper than CBs. I’m sure others will have opinions but this one I’m very happy with.

I bought all my switches off amazon. 25amp DC switches. Covers everything I need. Edit(I had to buy a couple switches from kitfox to match my round rockers and have dpdt switches)

I also felt it was daunting at the start but one piece at a time and it becomes fun. This probably ended up being my favourite part of the build.

Edit: if you feel the aero electric connection is too much to read start to front, just read the chapters that cover the things you are thinking about. Before you know it, the entire book is read.

[Timberwolf]

I install the g3x for friends and have it in my own Rv. You’re going to love it. Looking through your list, you’re missing the 2 ap servos, plus don’t forget all of the associated install kits. You only need me module for the g3x which comes with the LRU kit. The gps 20 module does not come with a garmin 35 antenna which is required for the WAAS position source. I believe you would be better off nixing the gps 20 module and just getting the gps internal to the gtx45. It does include the antenna. Unless of course you foresee wanting to go IFR down the road, order the gtn625 for $5500 if garmin is still offering the package deal with the g3x. Then you can use it for position source. Also you only have 1 AHRS, the g5 would give you a battery backup and also give an extra ahrs if the GSU 25 went TU. But a Daniels afm8 off eBay and build your own harnesses. Way cheaper and you have the tools. I just built all of the harnesses for a rv8 I’m starting on in 5 hours. Feel free to pm me and I can add in any other details or answer questions. Also, the garmin x team is available to answer any questions and are happy to help.

[jiott]

I found the switches and circuit breakers (I prefer these to fuses) to add up to quite a cost. I used 7 switches and 12 CB's from Aircraft Spruce. I think I remember a couple switches provided in the FWF kit, the master and the keyed ignition.

[jiott]

Also eyeball vents (nice ones are not cheap), 12v outlet and USB ports. May want a glove box (I find it very handy). A vertical card compass.

[rv9ralph]

Don't forget engine sensors, coolant temp probe, oil temp and pressure, EGT, CHT, etc.

Ralph

[Timberwolf]

Also eyeball vents (nice ones are not cheap), 12v outlet and USB ports. May want a glove box (I find it very handy). A vertical card compass.

Compass not needed if you have a back up battery and the gmu 11.

[tracstarr]

Don't forget engine sensors, coolant temp probe, oil temp and pressure, EGT, CHT, etc.

Ralph

Do these not come with the engine? I'm planning on 912is and thought they did.

[tracstarr]

I install the g3x for friends and have it in my own Rv. You’re going to love it. Looking through your list, you’re missing the 2 ap servos, plus don’t forget all of the associated install kits. You only need me module for the g3x which comes with the LRU kit. The gps 20 module does not come with a garmin 35 antenna which is required for the WAAS position source. I believe you would be better off nixing the gps 20 module and just getting the gps internal to the gtx45. It does include the antenna. Unless of course you foresee wanting to go IFR down the road, order the gtn625 for $5500 if garmin is still offering the package deal with the g3x. Then you can use it for position source. Also you only have 1 AHRS, the g5 would give you a battery backup and also give an extra ahrs if the GSU 25 went TU. But a Daniels afm8 off eBay and build your own harnesses. Way cheaper and you have the tools. I just built all of the harnesses for a rv8 I’m starting on in 5 hours. Feel free to pm me and I can add in any other details or answer questions. Also, the garmin x team is available to answer any questions and are happy to help.

Thanks, I'll take a look at those changes and try to understand it some more. I was thinking of a G5, but thought the second G3X would just override that need?

[Timberwolf]

Thanks, I'll take a look at those changes and try to understand it some more. I was thinking of a G5, but thought the second G3X would just override that need?

G5 has its own gps and internal antenna, ahrs, and backup battery. A second g3x screen would require all 3 of these to provide the redundancy you get with the g5.

The gsu 25 ahrs is independent of the screens and the second screen would need its own gps antenna to function as a backup for the system. Plus, a second battery, however you would want to skin that cat.

I left out the details of the main bus and essential backup bus as there are 1000 different ways to do it. Recommend you read bob knuckolls book and decide for yourself how you want to wire up the electrical. Each piece of garmin equipment provides a 2 diode separated 12v inputs to assist you with whatever setup you choose.

[PapuaPilot]

Definitely lots of opinions, but you need to decide what is right for your flying. I would suggest the G5 too as a backup in lieu of a second 10" screen for the reasons already mentioned. Did anyone say it can drive the autopilot too.

Battery: You need at least one other battery other than the big main one. The #1 reason is to keep the G3X system/screen alive during starting; the screen will go blank and reboot if the voltage drops below ~10 volts. I originally had a second 5AH lead acid battery for this purpose (4.5 lbs with wiring). Last year I upgraded to a home made Lithium battery setup with a charger/balancer circuit board (the whole thing is under 1 lb.). This battery also powers my electronic ignition during the start when the main battery voltage goes low.

The other possible need for a second battery is to keep essential systems (G3X screen/sensors, ignition, lights, COM?, transponder?, trim?, etc.) alive if the main power source quits or dies. Again, you should read Bob Knuckles-Aero Electric information. You get to decide what is essential for your plane and type of flying. I designed my system (a single 10" screen G3X) so that I can keep going on the main battery for 2.5 - 3 hours if the alternator dies. I have a backup feed directly from the battery to the essential bus through an "emergency" switch. My main battery is an Odyssey 680 (~16 AH).

My independent backup is an iPad using the Garmin Pilot app. This gives me everything I need to get safely on the ground day/night VFR. The only thing I wouldn't have is engine instruments, but I feel the only critical one after starting would be oil pressure, and the chance of loosing that is about zero.

[wannafly]

That list is very much what I’m thinking of doing as well. Will you be making your own wire harnesses? Is the extra cost to order them worth it? Wiring scares me and not interested in frying any instruments. Where are you at?

[Esser]

That list is very much what I’m thinking of doing as well. Will you be making your own wire harnesses? Is the extra cost to order them worth it? Wiring scares me and not interested in frying any instruments. Where are you at?

I'm in the same boat for a GTX327 harness. I can buy the components for $60 USD and spend 3 hours making it OK, or I can buy one on ebay made by a pro for $300. It is a big price difference....The wiring should be pretty simple but piece of mind is worth something. It is the last wiring I have to do besides my antenna wiring. One other thing to consider is I want to build my harness to integrate in the future for the GDL88 ADS-B so I can fly in the states. I'm not sure how easy it is to get info on that if I did it myself..

[tracstarr]

I've slightly modified my list above, but that said, I'm considering a full wiring harness custom made and tested from stein air. It's not cheap, but is it worth it - for me yes. Peace of mind, and time.

[DesertFox4]

TCW, one of our great site sponsors, makes backup batteries for all glass panels.
Also they provide comprehensive wire schematics.
http://www.tcwtech.com

[BillCuster]

I’m building a G3X panel in my S7 right now too. Jason at Aerotronics in Billings MT is the best at this. They can design and cut the panel itself and they are experts at telling you all you’re going to need. I went to a 3 day school in Kansas City in January on installing the G3X - it was a great confidence builder in doing all your own install and wiring. Worth the $600 for 3 days.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210514/c13236873fd14520bc5ba3a0fe4b55bb.jpg

[efwd]

Do you have more info on that course. I wish I had known of that.

[BillCuster]

It's at the AEA Headquarters in Lee's Summit, MO near Kansas City.
Aircraft Electronics Association
3570 NE Ralph Powell Road
Lee’s Summit, MO 64064

They have many great Hands-on classes. The G3X Experimental install is the one I went to.
https://aea.net/training/

BC

[BillCuster]

TCW, one of our great site sponsors, makes backup batteries for all glass panels.
Also they provide comprehensive wire schematics.
http://www.tcwtech.com

Absolutely! Included in the design from the beginning. See that little switch above the ignition? SBY PWR!

[tracstarr]

Absolutely! Included in the design from the beginning. See that little switch above the ignition? SBY PWR!

I just wired mine directly to the master switch.

[BillCuster]

I just wired mine directly to the master switch.

Well the G3X will be wired directly to the Master switch because it has the engine gauges. As far as the Standby battery goes, I'm assuming if you turn off the master, the panel will go off too. The logic with the way Aerotronics recommended wiring it is the Standby circuit is totally separate. It goes to the standby power input of the G3X meaning if anything goes wrong with the master circuit, it will still function, thus a separate switch. This eliminates the single point of failure of the master switch and the wiring from the master to the G3X. The way you wired it directly is probably more practical especially for a VFR panel. Plus, I think that means your standby power could power anything on the bus, not just the G3X. Does that sound right? Was that your reasoning?

[tracstarr]

Well the G3X will be wired directly to the Master switch because it has the engine gauges. As far as the Standby battery goes, I'm assuming if you turn off the master, the panel will go off too. The logic with the way Aerotronics recommended wiring it is the Standby circuit is totally separate. It goes to the standby power input of the G3X meaning if anything goes wrong with the master circuit, it will still function, thus a separate switch. This eliminates the single point of failure of the master switch and the wiring from the master to the G3X. The way you wired it directly is probably more practical especially for a VFR panel. Plus, I think that means your standby power could power anything on the bus, not just the G3X. Does that sound right? Was that your reasoning?


Yes, Master off would turn off everything regardless (except for the G5 which has it's own backup battery). I have the TCW wired to several of my Garmin items including the G3X. It will automatically switch over if voltage is below 11V. If anything goes wrong with alternators and/or main battery and it eventually falls below 11V the TCW kicks in. I don't have to do anything. (like remember to flip a switch when something happens and/or as part of startup procedure). I'll see my warnings on the G3X that something has gone wrong, won't have any system restart and just be able to assess the situation. Which is likely going to be land asap. I see no need to worry about a situation where I need to attempt to turn off the master. I can reset/restart all my devices from the G3X and if it is an alternator issue resulting in low voltage as the battery drops - I'm covered. And like I said, if everything fails including the TCW, my G5 has it's own battery backup (and has built in GPS to allow total stand alone function). The TCW is wired to specific devices only, it will not power other devices.

[DMMeix]

Saving this thread for future reference.

How blasphemous is it to consider the panel and harness "pre-fabbed" from the KF factory? I've heard wiring is one of the most rewarding parts of the process and not overly difficult. For a noobie though, it seems daunting. As a previous post mentioned, "peace of mind" is worth something. So, has anyone ordered the panel and harness from the factory?

[Eric Page]

How blasphemous is it to consider the panel and harness "pre-fabbed" from the KF factory?
Not at all, if you're happy to exchange that money for time and convenience.

Like any other part of airplane building, doing the wiring yourself just requires researching the best techniques, buying the right tools, working carefully and having someone knowledgeable look over your work. If you decide to do it yourself, be sure to document your electrical system with drawings for future service and upgrades.

Here's a recent video segment by a Kitfox builder who's very happy with the Kitfox pre-fab panel.

https://youtu.be/UOPfHS7JBxQ?t=2028 (https://]https://youtu.be/UOPfHS7JBxQ?t=2028)

[alexM]

They offer that prefab panel for a reason. I'm sure there's demand.

[DesertFox4]

FYI, I just posted Trent Palmer’s newest video and near the end of it he talks with Nikk who helped develop the Garmin pre-fab wiring harness and builds them for Kitfox Aircraft. Sounds like a two week process for Nikk to turn out a harness.

https://youtu.be/jZB1JZLhXoc

[alexM]

FYI, I just posted Trent Palmer’s newest video and near the end of it he talks with Nikk who helped develop the Garmin pre-fab wiring harness and builds them for Kitfox Aircraft. Sounds like a two week process for Nikk to turn out a harness.

https://youtu.be/jZB1JZLhXoc

Nikk's harness got rave reviews from 7KiloFox on a recent video too.

[DMMeix]

Not at all, if you're happy to exchange that money for time and convenience.

I think the price for the panel is around $25-29k depending on number of screens and autopilot options. I haven't been able to find a clear answer, so I'm curious what a comparable DIY panel and harness would end up costing?

[Kitfox Pilot]

It will cost you about 60% to do it yourself if my bills add up right.