Rotax Price Increase

[jdmcbean]

FYI.. Just notified that Rotax is increasing 4.25% effective October 1st.

Nice for them to let us know with plenty advanced 3 business day notice...

[Dick B in KY]

Pricing themselves right out of the game. Think I'll be talking to Rotec again about a round one.

Dick B

[Av8r3400]

As much as everyone seems to love to hate Rotax, it is still the best match for this design plane. Light weight and high HP. It is still better than anything else on the market.

At 250+ pounds installed, the Rotec, as beautiful as they are, is just too heavy. Same for the Continentals and Lycomings.

Maybe the Jabaru, but like the VWs high RPMs mean small prop diameters and loss of the STOL performance these planes are all about. This motor looks the same at 3300 rpm...

[IVPleasure]

Thanks John for the heads up. Nice to know of the price increase so we can purchase at the old prices if we desire.

Have a Great Day.
dave

[jrthomas]

The Rotax 912 is a great engine. As far as quality and reliability it is second to none. But compared to other 4 cylinder/4 cycle engines, the price is outrageous. The 912 is nowhere close to being as sophistocated as some of those high performance sport bikes with overhead cams and multiple valves. There're just pricing at the maximum of what they feel the market will bear but in doing so are pricing a lot of potential buyers out of the market. That may be good business but seems unethical to me. Their high prices are the reason so many are looking at alternative engines. Rotax may be shooting themselves in the foot.

[jrthomas]

By alternative,I don't just mean auto conversions though some go this route. I'm with you. There's just to many problems to sort out. But there are some very good alternatives. I've flown a friends Model IV with a 2200 Jabiru. It didn't have quite the kick of a 912UL but it still had good power. I have a 912 but if I didn't have an engine I would buy the Jabiru. This may sound like blasphemy since I'm a 912 guy myself but the Jabiru seems like it's just as reliable at a much more reasonable price.Jabiru Pacific sells the 2200 for $12,500. The firewall forward package is also a couple of thousand cheaper. Installed weight is 132lbs, almost exactly the same as the 582. It's a fine engine for a Model 3 or 4. They sell the 3300 for $16,500 which would be a good engine for the larger Kitfoxes. Most of us who build our own planes or fly homebuilts are not wealthy. If we were we would just buy a new factory built plane of our choice. But I, for one, have to weigh the price with the benifits. Is the 912S worth $8,000 more than a Jabiru 2200. Not to me. James Thomas

[DesertFox4]

The Rotax 912S really is in a category all it's own. I know the sticker shock is getting higher but the value of the 912S holds strong in relation to the performance it will deliver when hooked to the front of any Kitfox model from the 4 on up. We know Rotax has accumulated millions of flying hours now and their support is great.

That being said we are always hopeful someone will come into the market with a equal or better performing alternative to the benchmark Rotax. Can they do it for less money than Rotax? Maybe, we'll see. They have to build the engine first.

[jrthomas]

You're right DesertFox, performance wise, the 2200 Jabiru doesn't come close to the 912S. My point was cost. I have the 912UL in my model 4 Speedster and when it's flying I know it will outperform the 2200. But it's still at least $8,000 more expensive than the 2200 when you add in the cost of the firewall forward package. I still can't say the extra cost of the 912UL is worth the extra expense over the 2200. If the price difference were closer, I'd choose the 912 hands down.

[Dorsal]

It seems to me that this is a general concern about the cost of airplane engines, a new Cont O-200 or Lyc O-235 are what I compared to the 912-S.
I expect that lower production runs, higher quality demand and Lawyers drive the price more than greed.

[Lynn Matteson]

The picture of the broken gear is that of my engine. It caused me to have to replace that gear and the gear cover which was distorted as the result of some of the teeth being forced to go where they didn't belong after the gear broke. During the rebuild, I elected to replace the crankshaft , piston rings, valves and guides (just precautionary). I agree that the design of the gear could have been better, but there are thousands of them out there flying that HAVEN'T broken. I don't have the figures, but I'll bet that the Rotax line of engines have a broken *something* in their early history as well.

If 80% of the LSA's sold are Rotax-powered, maybe it's because they've been selling that engine longer than the others. When the automobile was first invented, I've got a hunch that Ford probably sold a lot more than the others at first, eh? Time has a way of evening these things out, and maybe the price increase will drive a few more buyers Jabiru's way.

I've also heard that Rotax gives the dealer a better percentage of each sale than Jabiru does. To me, that's a pretty poor excuse for promoting the use of a Rotax engine. It may make better business sense for the dealer, but it does not promote the *experimental* aspect of this hobby. For my own reasons for going with Jabiru, I don't follow the crowd, and therefore was not going to get in line to fly another Rotax-powered plane, but elected to give Jabiru a try. Did I have some problems? Yes, but many other Jabiru owners haven't had a bit of trouble with theirs. Keep in mind that most of these folks that get on the internet are the ones with problems, and there are others that are happily flying their planes with either Jabiru, Rotax or XXXX for power, and don't have the inclination to post about their good fortune.

Lynn Matteson

[jdmcbean]

[quote=Lynn Matteson;5032]
If 80% of the LSA's sold are Rotax-powered, maybe it's because they've been selling that engine longer than the others.

I've also heard that Rotax gives the dealer a better percentage of each sale than Jabiru does. To me, that's a pretty poor excuse for promoting the use of a Rotax engine [quote]

Lynn, It is closer to about 90% to 95%. The Jabiru is an alternative choice on some and was available at the beginning of S-LSA for manufactures to choose.

Wherever you get your information regarding percentages is flat wrong... We offer both Rotax and Jabiru, as well as Continental, Lycoming and can offer Rotec Radial. They are all about equal.

Whatever powerplant one chooses to fly behind.. be safe and thank you for flying a Kitfox !!

[Lynn Matteson]

Mike-
I had a couple of folks look at the gear design, and one guy in particular said he'd like to try to make a gear with a stub-tooth shape, I believe he called it. My impression is that if they had only moved the camshaft 1/8 to 1/4" further away from the crankshaft, there would have been room for a slide-on gear and woodruff key, instead of the "hat-shaped" slide-over-the-end-of-the-crank style gear that they went with. My other beef with this design is that the gear provides the wear surface for the crankshaft seal. My gear broke right along the groove that was worn into it from the seal. I don't think that the wear groove was a contributing factor to the breakage, rather that the groove became a "fire stop" so to speak, for the crack to end in. My gear looks like it had been cracked for some time prior to breaking. In fact, I was showing someone the engine at Oshkosh in 2008, and noticed oil seepage coming from the rear seal area. I flew it home...about 4 hours...and flew it a few more hours and then the breakage occurred. Had I looked into the leakage, I might have saved myself some grief, but normally a front or rear seal seepage in an engine is not cause for alarm, but in this case (and for me in the future) it was. What I believe happened was that the gear had been cracked, and the crack ran right through the seal area, allowing the cracked edges of the gear to act like a lathe tool, carving away at the seal and causing the leak.

John-
That info on dealer percentages might just have come from a representative from another engine make...do you suppose I was given bad info? Hard to believe....;)

Love the Kifox, John. It's allowed me to do things I hadn't thought possible after retirement!
Lynn

[SkyPirate]

Lynn I don't log on to get here ,..I just close the browser,.and put a link on my desk top.when I come back to it I'm already logged on.


Chase

[Dorsal]

Lynn,
Just chiming in that I too was glad to see your post "over here". I am a member of both groups and though I like the format and usability of this one I also value the experience and advice of several of the members of the Matt list. Not sure if there is a resolution thats puts us all in the same place but it would be nice.
(I also never have to log-in, just click a link)