Insulation options

[mbuto]

All,

I'm thinking about building an SS7, but am wondering about what options are available to insulate the a/c. I will be flying in the BC/WA state area where it's often cold and damp. A tube & fabric machine with a fair amount of plexi-glass might be a challenge. I expect a Rotax of some kind up front. Cabin heat may be fine for the front of the cabin, but I'd be concerned about my backside.

Mike

[AirFox]

I have a SS7 With Rotax and heater option. No extra insulation added to the build. I've crossed the Cascades at 3 degrees F. No problem keeping warm.

[jiott]

I agree with Scott. Your backside is no problem because you are sitting on 1-2" of foam, the seatback is 1" foam. Where you may get cold is the back of your neck due to cold air coming from the tailcone and baggage area. To eliminate this cold air source you must seal up the flaperon control horn slots in the turtledeck, and the horizontal stab trim slots in the tail access covers. One other spot for cold air ingress is the the spar ends at the butt ribs. If you make the cuffs as recommended in the manual it solves this problem, or some folks just stuff some foam into these areas. If you do these things the Kitfox SS7 stays quite warm; however I cannot speak to temps below 0F; I guess this is where heated underwear comes in.

[kmach]

Sealing air leaks is the biggest thing you can do to keep warm. I do have insulation on the bottom area under the seat .The back of my seat pan has aluminum foil stick on heat shield.
-20c no problem. I do dress well with good gear. I use the theory dress like how you would like to be dressed in a crash .

[PapuaPilot]

I use the theory dress like how you would like to be dressed in a crash .

Totally agree with you. I see many pilots launching without considering that they might be forced to overnight due to weather or a mechanical problem, much less a crash. It can be 90-100 degrees in the summer here and drop below freezing at night in the back country at higher elevations. I would hate to just be in shorts, at tee shirt and sandals.

[Rodney]

Jiott. - Could you post some pictures and also talk about how you sealed the tail and aileron slots?

I need to do that on my airplane and try to stop that cold air coming from the back of the airplane

Thanks

Rodney

[Av8r3400]

IMO, The easiest way to combat the "tail draft" in these planes is to wear a hooded sweatshirt. Tuck the hood around you neck for the draft or if it gets too cold pull it up over your head/headset.

Chasing down all the air leaks would be a full time job.

[jiott]

Rodney, Hopefully Floog chimes in on the details and photos, because he is the one who showed me how to do it, but I am just now in process of getting material and hope to install it at my next annual in Feb. Floog flies back and forth over the Cascades every week or two and he has had these leak stoppers installed for several years now, and claims they are a big help, but nothing is perfect of course.

[kmach]

Being able to reduce the air coming up from the tail with a seal around the stabilizer jackscrew trim slot would help allot. I too am looking forward to the pictures of that.

[Floog]

The first thing I did was blocked the airflow through the oil cooler/radiator with a pilot adjustable cowl flap. Keeping the engine temperature at a minimum of 180F translates into more heat in the cabin. Then I installed 3/8" foam rubber seals over the flaperon shaft and stab slots. The right flaperon slot was the source of the greatest draft on my neck (p-factor). Unlike others, I have zero air flow coming from the spar ends. I applied the foam rubber with contact cement. (Sticky Stuff spray). When I expect temperatures below say 20F, I wear a hoodie over the headset. There just isn't any heat coming from the back of a Kitfox 😁

[jiott]

Great photos, thanks Doug.

[Rodney]

Thanks so much for the pictures. I'm going to head to the aviation dept at Home depot for some foam material

I do try to dress as warm as possible but anything I can do to cut down on the incoming air will help. Am making boots for the control sticks and am working on better latches to completely close the doors. My airplane is really too drafty to fly when it gets below 35 degrees or I'm just getting too old to tolerate it

I'm going to keep working on my plane to get it warmer in the winter and I sure appreciate all the help.

Thanks
Rodney

[Flybyjim]

I am wondering why you have an air problem with your doors leaking air. I just finished setting the door frames and attaching the acrylic, the acrylic seemed to fit perfectly into the door frame. I have not installed the latch yet as I was looking into a mechanism that will latch at both front and back of the door.
Just curious.

[kitfox2009]

Hi Jim
I Think it is good idea to have both front and back catches especially on the passenger door.
I notice some of my wider passengers tend to squeeze the front with hips or legs and allows cold air to scoop in. I added a small safety pin in this area that must be removed before the door will open. Simple but effective effective.
Cheers Don

[zadwit]

Do you have of your oil cooler shutter? Was it installed onthe front side or aft?
I used to work on Boeing 737s and we used some very light weight insulation called oracoat. It is think silver mylar, and thin 1" thick fireproof insulation like spun glass. YOu make up these blanket with the mylar on each side and seal the edges with silver mylar tape. These blankets are very durable and provide excellent insulation. I bought some and used some of the scraps from work and insulated the entire cabin on my Cessna170. It was toasty warm at -20(f) but an added side benefit was it made the inside of the cabin much much quieter .It takes a little while to make up all the little angles of the different blankets but it is worth it. They are easy to clean if you get oil or dirt on them and they are very durable...They are extremely light in weight.

[Rodney]

The reason there is leakage is that the only latch is towards the front of the door so it is easy for the door to get pushed out, back by your elbow. In fact it seems like there is a slight suction from the airflow pulling the door out. My doors at least need two or maybe three latches to really close as completely as they can.

May be just something with my airplane, but I do need to fix it. Before I got my Fox I was thinking of building a Zenith 750. Those guys have developed some neat ways to build a locking system that employees three latches. Will probably adapt their design to my doors. They had to develop a good system because they had real bubble doors that were getting ripped off the airplane in flight.

I do have thermostats on both the oil and glycol systems. Sure helps to warm up faster in cold weather

Rodney