FAA letter of deviation: Anybody have one?

[atc310r]

Hey all,

I called Kitfox yesterday and spoke to a wonderfully helpful woman who informed me quite a bit on questions I had regarding S-lsa, e-lsa and giving flight training.

Basically, I want to build my Kitfox and keep the possibility open of doing flight training in it when I attain my cfii. Now you can flight train in an s-lsa but those have to be 100% factory built. So unless you want to pony up the dough for them to build, you won't have one. An e-lsa you could have and get the 16 hour cert so you could do your own annuals but then you can't give flight instruction. An amateur built experimental is in the same boat. Such was my conundrum...

However, she informed me that it is possible to attain a letter of deviation from our good friends at the FAA which would allow you to do follow on training (such as getting a tailwheel endorsement) in an experimental amateur built and I assume an e-lsa as well. But she stressed they dont just give them out because you asked.

So that being said, does anybody here have one or know somebody who has gotten one?

[tommg13780]

I don't have the LODA but it was considered. You are allowed to give instruction in E-LSA or AM-EXP but cannot (legally) take compensation. This program was a 1/2 hearted effort by FAA to get more Light Sport aircraft available for people seeking training. After about 2 years I believe the nationwide headcount for LODA qualified trainers was at 29. I'm attaching the current list from EAA and a quick count shows 88 participants spread over 28 states. The only Kitfoxes are at Stick and Rudder in Idaho.

https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/pilot-resources/letters-of-deviation-authority-holders-loda-holders

This is not a fill in the blanks type application and if approved it's good for 2 years. I actually obtained a copy of an approved application that went through the Albany, NY FSDO and decided it wasn't worth the hassles. I believe we have a FSDO staff at Albany that is inclined to make things as difficult as possible.

If you are successful that would be the first in Vermont. Good Luck.

[alienwes]

I know Phil Dietro gives instruction under a LODA in southern CA. He has an ELSA powered parachute. He gets compensated for it. I remember there being a cutoff to apply for one when sport pilot took over. Had to be before 2007 if I remember right.

Wes

[rv9ralph]

LODAs are usually issued to conduct transition training for a specific model of aircraft, e.g. RV, Lancair, etc. It will usually require a training syllabus for that transition training. There are several individuals with LODAs in the RV community spread around the country.
You might find information specific to those at the Vansairforce.com forums.

A CFI can instruct in an E-AB aircraft, no compensation can be charged for the use of an E-AB aircraft.

Ralph

[efwd]

I thought that I read in the FARs that you can charge to instruct in an E-AB. AFTER I paid both for the aircraft rental as well as for the instruction I thought it was strange that I was charged "openly" for it. I didn't object. I would have paid even it weren't allowed. I believe I read that transition training for type was allowed. The premise being safety improvements for those of us preparing to fly our newly built aircraft. I may be wrong but no skin off my back. I'd do it again if I am.

[atc310r]

Thanks everyone for the insight. Just to be clear I would be looking to charge for this flight instruction.

When she spoke on the phone she did elude to the fact that it was kind of FSDO discretion. You can't really blame those guys for being heaitanf thought. If they approve a LODA for some guy to instruct in his E-AB and then they end up crashing during training and somebody is hurt or killed, the NTSB is going to ask that FAA official why the approved the LODA and they better have something to fall back on.

My thoughts are this: make my plane an E-LSA because those have more documentation behind them than an E-AB. You have annuals and I will get the 16 hour cert so at least I have some small degree of documented training. That way they can take comfort in the fact that if something happens they are covered to a degree. I always try to myself in their shoes.

[aviator79]

I thought that I read in the FARs that you can charge to instruct in an E-AB. AFTER I paid both for the aircraft rental as well as for the instruction I thought it was strange that I was charged "openly" for it. I didn't object. I would have paid even it weren't allowed. I believe I read that transition training for type was allowed. The premise being safety improvements for those of us preparing to fly our newly built aircraft. I may be wrong but no skin off my back. I'd do it again if I am.

Not relevant to the OP, but you're right. Per FAA Order 8900.1, a flight instructor may be compensated for providing instruction in an E-AB, but may not be compensated for use of an E-AB. From a practical perspective, this means you can pay a CFI to teach you in a plane that isn't theirs. I wouldn't try to walk the line of claiming that the student was paying only for instruction and not use of the aircraft. I don't think that would hold water at the hearing.

[atc310r]

Not relevant to the OP, but you're right. Per FAA Order 8900.1, a flight instructor may be compensated for providing instruction in an E-AB, but may not be compensated for use of an E-AB. From a practical perspective, this means you can pay a CFI to teach you in a plane that isn't theirs. I wouldn't try to walk the line of claiming that the student was paying only for instruction and not use of the aircraft. I don't think that would hold water at the hearing.

I was thinking the EXACT same thing... Good luck to anyone who wants to try and play that game.

[beeryboats]

As the owner of a model IV I'm going to need training from a CFI. So I can pay him/her as long as I'm the owner. Is this correct?

[t j]

I receintly got a flight review from a CFI for hire in my kitfox. He charged for me for flight instruction.

[Av8r3400]

It is perfectly legal, not any type of grey area, to hire a CFI to instruct you in your own Experimental aircraft.

[atc310r]

Well I just sent the Boston FSDO an email asking what things they would like to see before they would be comfortable issuing a LODA for this. We will see what they come back with.