SS7 & Highlander

[Ramos]

Hoping you savvy members can help me better understand the differences between the current Kitfox and the Just Aircraft Highlander. Please assume that both are as 'set-up' as possible for off-airport operations and both are powered by the Rotax 912ULS. Also assume the pilot to be of average skill and not a true back country jockey capable of wringing every last thing out of either model. Thanks in advance, I appreciate the feedback.

[Av8r3400]

The Highlander has an under-cambered wing which will fly slower than the Kitfox. This wing will also hit an aerodynamic brick wall at about 100 mph. Lots and lots of power to make it go faster. A Kitfox will have little issue cruising at 125 mph when set up to do so.

The flaps on the Highlander add lots of drag allowing steeper approaches. The Kitfox needs more competent energy management.

The cabin widths are similar, with the Highlander having a larger baggage area.

The Kitfox has adjustable rudder peddles where the Highlander has adjustable seats.

The controls on a Highlander behave like a Cub or Champ. The Kitfox is far more sporty and quick handling, IMO much more fun...

Highlanders are more expensive.

[Paul Z]

Kitfox Super Sport $22900, Just Aircraft Highlander $24900, no a big difference in price for the base kit. Personally I would prefer the real flaps. I've flown both along with the SuperSTOL. To me the all seemed to fly about the same, and the Highlander flew as fast as my Kitfox. The SuperSTOL was SLOW, I've heard Cruise Speeds of 81 to 90, and the one I flew cruised at about 86. Take off & landing in the both in the Kitfox & Highlander are about the same. The take off & landings in a SuperSTOL could best be described as an experience! I like the baggage area in the Just Aircraft much better. They use Cables for the Ailerons & Flaps. To me the deference is all a matter of taster & preferences.

[jiott]

The Highlander I looked at did have a larger baggage area, but that was because they didnt use a separate bag to contain the baggage and hold it away from the outside fabric walls. They had installed some 1/4" foam panels against the fabric in an attempt to protect the fabric from punctures, etc. I like the Kitfox baggage kit approach much better.

[Ramos]

Thanks guys. In all honesty, I would be fine with any cruise speed as long as it's at least 80 mph. My furthest waypoint is 85 miles. So, the difference between 90mph and 120mph is about 14 minutes. What is important in this case, is slow flight and take off/landing distance in irrigated pastures and furrowed wheat fields. I suppose a decent argument could be made for certain ultralights for what I have in mind. However, I am not getting any younger and I would like a reasonably comfortable cockpit (I am small) with a decent heater. We also get a fair bit of wind around here. Primary missions are checking cattle and running parts. When I first started on this journey, I seriously considered the CH701. I really liked the aluminum skin. However, regardless of its' STOL capability, it does not seem to be strong in the slow-flight area. And, no, I am NOT saying it is a fast airplane. :D

[Paul Z]

For low & slow, hands down the SuperSTOL. However, get ready for the sticker shock, it is about $22,000 to $24,000 more expensive.

[Ramos]

For low & slow, hands down the SuperSTOL. However, get ready for the sticker shock, it is about $22,000 to $24,000 more expensive.

Yes, I agree. Ideal but out of budget. I have also considered if a guy found the right KF IV, at the right price, and then putting an STi wing on it and possibly swapping out the landing gear. Could be tough to find the right deal, though. Those are two very expensive changes to make. I have lusted after a KF since the mid 80's. However, I wonder if a Highlander is not the better fit in this case. I would love to find out that a Classic IV in stock configuration is all I need with the addition of 26" tires! Just not quite smart enough to figure it all out!!! :D

On Edit: After a quick trip through both websites, the two kits price out the same. Did my best to keep it apples-to-apples. KF STi and Highlander with a few upgrades. Quick this and quick that, both kits. Both with 912ULS and 29" rubber. Right at $64K. So, it would seem that pricing is not a determining factor between the two. Am I realistic in figuring 2-3 years of my life to make either one flight ready?

[Paul Z]

After a quick trip through both websites, the two kits price out the same. Did my best to keep it apples-to-apples. KF STi and Highlander with a few upgrades. Quick this and quick that, both kits. Both with 912ULS and 29" rubber. Right at $64K. So, it would seem that pricing is not a determining factor between the two. Am I realistic in figuring 2-3 years of my life to make either one flight ready?

It depends, do you have a full time job, or a 60 hour a week job like I did before I retired. I would get every fast build kit offered. I especially would get the quick build wings, and make sure they are rigged to the Aircraft. With the wings built in a jig you are pretty well assured the plane will fly as advertised.

[Av8r3400]

Support?


Kitfox: 30+ years of kit manufacture and a very well written and complete manual.

Just AC: They give you a book in the kit with some pictures in it.



Kitfox: TeamKitfox - Over 52,000 postings with over 4700 members.

Just AC: Wings forum, section #3 of 32, 18k posts mostly about Steve Henry showing off.

[Ramos]

Support?


Kitfox: 30+ years of kit manufacture and a very well written and complete manual.

Just AC: They give you a book in the kit with some pictures in it.



Kitfox: TeamKitfox - Over 52,000 postings with over 4700 members.

Just AC: Wings forum, section #3 of 32, 18k posts mostly about Steve Henry showing off.

All of the above, plus KF HQ's is 4-5 hours away from me. Have no doubt that these points will figure heavily in my decision. That being said, I am trying to determine which aircraft has the flying characteristics that best fit my needs. Just working on one piece of the puzzle at a time. Even if the Highlander is determined to have a performance advantage for me, it could still be ruled out for other reasons. I fully accept that my budget will require some compromises. If I could afford a SuperSTOL or the STi/180 Titan John is flying, I would go with the STi simply because it is a Kitfox. :)

[Paul Z]

You might want to go read this thread. http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=2894&page=2

[jrevens]

Support?


Kitfox: 30+ years of kit manufacture and a very well written and complete manual.

Just AC: They give you a book in the kit with some pictures in it.



Kitfox: TeamKitfox - Over 52,000 postings with over 4700 members.

Just AC: Wings forum, section #3 of 32, 18k posts mostly about Steve Henry showing off.

Yep... you rock! Well said, brother!
Just Aircraft seem to be good people. A couple of things that I prefer on the Kitfox design - as mentioned, more push rods, less cables, and the general quality of the weldments and design of structure (to be fair, this was when I was looking & making my mind up - things could have changed on the quality front since then). I like a few other things better on the Kitfox also, both major & minor. A big part of it for me is & was all of the people in this great big family. A little friendly competition is good.

[Ramos]

Alright, you guys! Your highly valued responses, along with a PM or two, are beyond compelling. Thank you all.
Jon Ramos

[TJay]

Ill bet your getting the exact opposite answers on the Just site, I will say I am building an early kitfox so I am all about the Kitfox dream, But on the other note I have purchased many items from just aircraft because the price is General cheaper on parts, some parts are interchangeable between the airplanes,
Now to add to this I have had a few questions which I called kitfox and both John and Debra were more than happy to stop and help me,

[av8rps]

Over the years I've answered questions a lot of times about the differences between various designs because people knew I had experience and/or owned most of the planes in question. I dont' recall any longer exactly where all those answers are at in the vast world wide web, but here is one link where the Just Aircraft forum had someone wondering about comparisons of a Kitfox to a Highlander. I put a link further down where we compared Highlander to a Rans, since I've learned that is usually the other question I will get...

http://wingsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=218&t=22512&sid=321378ff262c82c378296965a81aee59

Rans info here:

http://wingsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=218&t=21446&sid=321378ff262c82c378296965a81aee59

http://wingsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=218&t=21586&sid=321378ff262c82c378296965a81aee59

To update my comments in those older postings, I do want to say that I think the new Kitfox SS7 STI is one rocking machine! I don't really need more STOL capability than what a standard Kitfox can do, but if I did I'd have a heck of a time deciding between the Kitfox STI and a Just Aircraft Highlander. ( Note I did not include the "Just Super STOL", as I believe that aircraft is pretty much in a category of its own - although with minor mods the Highlander is VERY close to the Super STOL's capabilities).

So the reality is, any of these choices are great aircraft. And even though many don't think there is much difference, there are differences that you need to look hard at to determine which one meets most of your criteria. For me, I could easily live with any of the choices as I prefer some things from each different aircraft. And frankly, if you decide later that you made the wrong choice, or maybe your needs just changed, most of these choices can be modified to meet your new preferences. This design "family" is probably the most versatile aircraft ever made. So you pretty much can't go wrong.

I hope this helps you more than it confuses you :)

And remember, this is free internet advice. ;)

[Paul Z]

And remember, this is free internet advice. ;)

I like AV8RPS comment, the Best Quote of the entire post! :D

[Ramos]

This is ALL way more help than confusing, and thank you. I also agree that of the two aircraft discussed, either one would be a pretty good choice for my use. Low speed controlled flight and reasonable STOL. I don't have plans that require super short take offs and landings. Rather, the ground conditions are less than ideal so the less time spent rolling across it is just way easier on man and machine.

TJay, I trust all you guys here. Didn't really feel the need to post this on the JAC site. Figured they would all tell me that the Superstol was a must. :)

[Paul Z]

My problem with the SuperSTOL, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[av8rps]

I agree the Just Aircraft forum would orobably be pushing the Super STOL. And I agree it is probably the ultimate homebuilt STOL machine, so I can't say I'd blame them.

But for me, I like the Highlander more. Minorly modified the Highlander is almost as STOL as the SUPER STOL (it will actually takeoff shorter than the Super STOL). But the Highlander will cruise faster, haul more weight, be easier to build, and cost less. A nice lightweight (650 -700 lb EW) Highlander is an exceptionally performing aircraft that is also really strong and downright rugged, as it was originally designed for the off airport, rough stuff.

By comparison, I'd call the Kitfox Super Sport more of a "Gentleman's STOL" aircraft. That's not a negative, rather just my observation & opinion.

[Av8r3400]

I have NEVER seen a 650 pound Highlander! Everyone I have ever seen have been 800 pounders. Many way more than that!

What does your's weigh?

[av8rps]

Mine weighs 680 lbs with 8.50 tires. And fwiw, I have seen lighter ones than mine.

There was a Super STOL built that was in the low 600's, even had nitous with a 115 hp 912. But he admittedly went crazy on weight reduction as he built it to win Valdez (unfortunately it was damaged by a truck running into it while it was shown at the Alskan Airmen Convention a day before the contest, so it never saw the competition).

I agree that many will weigh more, but they can be built light if that's what a guy really wants. If I recall correct, Steve Henry's latest highly modded Highlander is around 700 lbs.