Landing a Taildragger on Snow

[jiott]

Since it is winter and we have been getting quite a bit of snow here in the NW, this concern has come to my mind. What are the tricks and advice for landing a Kitfox taildragger on a packed snow, fairly slippery (not glare ice) runway. I am talking wheels here, not skiis. There must be many of you in the northern midwest and canada that deal with this all the time. What do I look for that makes the conditions too bad to attempt a landing.

[Slyfox]

I have landed on every type of condition out there other then more then 8 inches of snow or more. Icy, packed, water and ice. I never had a problem. More then once I had a real slick runway and played and landed sideways, was very fun. so, no, there isn't anything special. land 3 point with a stall to land, you will be so slow, it won't matter. :) Of course that's me, for you, don't know.

[Av8r3400]

I did watch a guy flip over a really nice Avid mk4 landing in about 6" of snow on a lake. He had good size tires (Maybe Nancos?) on the plane.

Good soft field technique is required for deep snow without skis. Three point with gentle touch of the mains. Don't "plop" it down. That's what the Avid driver did.

[Slyfox]

best way to learn 3 point is on asphalt in the summer. I can land, 3 point, stay 2 feet off runway, pull back all the way on the stick, stall it and it lands like on a pillow. soft soft soft. then I'm so slow, slower then 35 I'm sure. then I just roll a little bit, never use brakes. that's the kind of landing you want in this snow that's been untouched on the runway. I did that kind of landing the other day with the rv, snow on the runway and came in real slow, on my rv 60kts is slow, touched down with a nice pull back right at the runway and power all the way off. touched down and didn't feel it, stopped within 500ft easy, no brakes. If you can touch down at the slowest possible speed, there isn't much that can happen.

One more thing, big difference between light fluffy and wet and heavy. the amount of snow you can land on depends greatly on which one you have. over 4 inches in heavy compared to 4 inches of light and fluffy. big huge difference. that wet and heavy WILL pull you over.

[AirFox]

I second what Steve said Jim. There is plenty of Un touched snow on our runway still. I got first tracks though.

[jiott]

I appreciate the comments about fairly soft snow, but what I am really looking for is advice for slick hardpacked paved runways. I understand landing as slow as possible, 3-point and keep her pointed straight ahead with rudder as long as there is enough airspeed. What worries me is when speed has bled off and you can only depend on brakes, but braking action may be nil to none.

[Slyfox]

kitfox is a piece of cake, really. don't go fast and when you need to turn and it doesn't, hit the rudder in the direction you want to go and give it some throttle, it will turn. I prefer the kitfox over the rv in slicky snow or ice. it's not that bad, just take baby steps when you move, it is slick it will slip. but the rudder is your friend. it will seem a little odd to push the rudder, hit the brake too, and give power to turn, but it works. try not to slam on the brakes or the tires will break loose. then you slide, so just go slow. hope this helps. oh I have the nanco slicks.

[trentp]

Just stay on the rudders, brakes will be useless since your tires will just slide but the plane won't want to pull like it does on asphault since the tires don't have much traction so ground looping isn't much of a risk in really slippery conditions. It's fairily easy, just feel it out once with a touch and go and expect to slide around a little which is a little discomforting at first. Lots of fun once you are used to it. Beware of heavy snow, even a couple inches of heavy soft snow can pull heavily on your tire, but on hardpacked snow/ice you should not have that problem.

[WWhunter]

Yes, what has been said about slippery and avoid your brakes. Hitting the brakes only makes it worse. Rudder is the only effective thing you have when on slick surfaces. Hopefully the winds aren't bad either.....a plane on slick/icy surface with much wind can be a recipe for disaster! The reply stating to use engine power and rudders is spot on. I no longer fly much in the winter unless on skis. I've seen too many 'opps' episodes with guys trying to land in snow cover runways or slippery ones. Almost bought a 180 that a guy landed and couldn't stop...slid into a slight bank and...everyone got a very good view of the underside of his plane.

[jiott]

Great! This is what I am looking for.

[Floog]

It's like driving a car in the snow. Not recommended unless you have to.
Seems like it's irresistible for a lot of people (me). I want to enjoy the winter flying, so I accept the challenge of the ice/snow. In a car or plane, approach it as if you have no brakes. Basically, it's inertia management. Making sure you have enough room (distance and width) to coast to a stop. Or ground loop to a stop (worse case on a smooth icy surface). Taking off and landing in snow is like having the brakes on. I imagine the amount of braking it would take to nose over on landing as the the friction produced by the snow. That's a LOT of braking in a KF in a 3 point configuration. And if you can take off in it, you can land in it. So, (if you MUST), have fun!

[Micro Mong Bldr]

How about ice? I've been wanting to try Alton Bay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1LWE4-CDXk
The model 2 has less rudder & vstab than the later ones, does that matter?