Kitfox IV utility

[Etp]

I have a Piper Pacer that I am considering selling and buying a Kitfox IV. I don't really need the 4 seat capacity but like the decent cruise performance, luggage capacity and ability to handle turbulence and crosswind easily. However, I am attracted to having a noncertified plane that I don't have to worry about STCs for mods and cheaper parts.
What are the limitations for the KF in crosswind? How does it handle it turbulence? How are long cross-country flights in the plane? Has anyone used them for light, occasional IFR?

[DesertFox4]

Eddie, the model 4 with a Rotax 4 stroke will give you a cruise speed from 105 mph to 120 mph. Depends on 80 hp. or 100 hp and lift strut fairings or not. Also prop choice will affect this number. My model 4 with 100 hp and Ivo prop and lift strut fairings installed will cruise 115 to 120 mph easily and higher if you want to push more fuel.

Crosswind landings, I believe the book shows 12-15 knots or so. I've got the tri-gear so can do a little better. Have done better many times. The four has plenty of rudder and great roll authority even below the stall speed.

Cross country flights have ranged from Phoenix to Idaho many times. Several times to California. Minnesota has been done in one day several times from Phoenix also. Baggage capacity on my model 4 is at 125 lbs for C.G. purposes but I usually limit to 60 lbs. for turbulence induced loading. Tested to 215 lbs. static so good safety margin strength wise on mine. Not sure what others test to.

Never flown it IFR but a few others have. Mine is not equipped for it nor am I rated for IFR flight

I too left the certified aircraft world behind and never looked back.
No 337 forms to fill out , you can do your own conditional inspections and sign them off if you built the plane and hold a repairman's certificate. Can do all your own upkeep ect.
Lots of model 4 owners on the forums and they will share their numbers and thoughts too as they see your post. Welcome aboard. Hope when you move over to the experimental side of the game you will enjoy it as much as I have.

[jiott]

My experience has been with the model SS7, but when I was taking my flight training in Boise with Stick & Rudder I witnessed Paul Leadabrand land the Kitfox in about a 30 mph xwind as a demonstration of the airplanes capability. It has enough rudder authority to do this (much more so than a Piper SuperCub according to Paul) if the pilot is capable. It is a light plane so it does get thrown around in turbulence and gusty xwinds, but the rudder and aileron response is superb if the pilot knows what he is doing.

[Slyfox]

ha, ok. jiott. well lets see here. I land my fox at about 35sh. so if I had a cross wind of 30, that means I have a 5mph forward. simple, I land cross runway. :D and I have done it. :rolleyes:

[efwd]

Welcome aboard Eddie from Loma Linda, not to be confused with Eddie from Yorba Linda. (thats me).
If your in the OC feel free to stop by and check out my SS fixing to get covered.
Eddie

[HighWing]

ha, ok. jiott. well lets see here. I land my fox at about 35sh. so if I had a cross wind of 30, that means I have a 5mph forward. simple, I land cross runway. :D and I have done it. :rolleyes:
This brought a smile to my face. Several years ago a flight of 6 (1 Rans S-6 that needed the fuel and five Model IVs) returning from the annual Idaho Back Country week needed a fuel stop and a nights rest. Our closest airport was Jackpot, Nevada. Winds were from the west and favored Runway 33. As we approached (as a flight of 6) it became apparent that the winds were fairly strong at about 90 degrees. Our flight leader estimated 8 kts. The estimate was for me an airplane saver :-) I had handled 8 often enough to not be that tight on final. Once on the ground, though, it was apparent that 8 was way low. After taxiing to the pumps it was impossible for the non parking brake guys (me included) to exit their airplanes without wheel chocks. The wind speed was determined to be over 20 kts. once on the ground. Who knows what would have happened if I had known what was really happening. The talk while we fueled was that if we had actually known, we would have landed on the taxiway leading to the pumps - short but doable in that wind. As previously mentioned, the airplanes can handle a lot. At the time, I guess I had about 600 hours in the IV. Would I do it again? Not on purpose.

[Etp]

Eddie, the model 4 with a Rotax 4 stroke will give you a cruise speed from 105 mph to 120 mph. Depends on 80 hp. or 100 hp and lift strut fairings or not. Also prop choice will affect this number. My model 4 with 100 hp and Ivo prop and lift strut fairings installed will cruise 115 to 120 mph easily and higher if you want to push more fuel.

Crosswind landings, I believe the book shows 12-15 knots or so. I've got the tri-gear so can do a little better. Have done better many times. The four has plenty of rudder and great roll authority even below the stall speed.

Cross country flights have ranged from Phoenix to Idaho many times. Several times to California. Minnesota has been done in one day several times from Phoenix also. Baggage capacity on my model 4 is at 125 lbs for C.G. purposes but I usually limit to 60 lbs. for turbulence induced loading. Tested to 215 lbs. static so good safety margin strength wise on mine. Not sure what others test to.

Never flown it IFR but a few others have. Mine is not equipped for it nor am I rated for IFR flight

I too left the certified aircraft world behind and never looked back.
No 337 forms to fill out , you can do your own conditional inspections and sign them off if you built the plane and hold a repairman's certificate. Can do all your own upkeep ect.
Lots of model 4 owners on the forums and they will share their numbers and thoughts too as they see your post. Welcome aboard. Hope when you move over to the experimental side of the game you will enjoy it as much as I have.

That is every useful information. That's decent weight allowance which should be enough for light weight camping. I've heard mixed things about them from the other pilots on the field with some loving them and other saying them are terrible in turbulence. I was talking to one IA who has worked on a few and he was saying he really likes a model IV with a O-200 modified to put out 115-120hp which really turns it into a rocket ship.

You in the Phoenix area? I'm in SoCal which is a short hop. It'd be awesome to fly some before jumping in. I'd be happy to buy some gas and lunch sometime!

[Norm]

It'd be awesome to fly some before jumping in. I'd be happy to buy some gas and lunch sometime!

Carefull Most people that ride with Steve end up with a Fox. I did.

11902

I did love the ride with Steve. His plane has amazing performance.
Good luck with your Fox experience.

[DesertFox4]

Eddie, all my spare time is dedicated to building my new model 7 Super Sport so odds of any trip for any reason is slim until it is finished. Sorry. I love taking folks on Kitfox flights. If Phoenix is in your immediate destinations future, please let me know and I will make it happen.:)



Heed Norm's warning Eddie. One flight usually does it.:eek:

[Etp]

This brought a smile to my face. Several years ago a flight of 6 (1 Rans S-6 that needed the fuel and five Model IVs) returning from the annual Idaho Back Country week needed a fuel stop and a nights rest. Our closest airport was Jackpot, Nevada. Winds were from the west and favored Runway 33. As we approached (as a flight of 6) it became apparent that the winds were fairly strong at about 90 degrees. Our flight leader estimated 8 kts. The estimate was for me an airplane saver :-) I had handled 8 often enough to not be that tight on final. Once on the ground, though, it was apparent that 8 was way low. After taxiing to the pumps it was impossible for the non parking brake guys (me included) to exit their airplanes without wheel chocks. The wind speed was determined to be over 20 kts. once on the ground. Who knows what would have happened if I had known what was really happening. The talk while we fueled was that if we had actually known, we would have landed on the taxiway leading to the pumps - short but doable in that wind. As previously mentioned, the airplanes can handle a lot. At the time, I guess I had about 600 hours in the IV. Would I do it again? Not on purpose.



Those are pretty impressive crosswind landing numbers. I'm sure the Kitfox will keep you on your toes. With the Pacer I've landed with winds gusting to 30k at 90 degree crosswind. Ran put of aileron quickly but never came closer to running out of rudder.

[Etp]

Eddie, all my spare time is dedicated to building my new model 7 Super Sport so odds of any trip for any reason is slim until it is finished. Sorry. I love taking folks on Kitfox flights. If Phoenix is in your immediate destinations future, please let me know and I will make it happen.:)



Heed Norm's warning Eddie. One flight usually does it.:eek:

Wouldn't take much as Im looking for an excuse to get one anyways! No, i was thinking it's give me a good excuse to fly out to Phoenix if you have time.

[Etp]

Welcome aboard Eddie from Loma Linda, not to be confused with Eddie from Yorba Linda. (thats me).
If your in the OC feel free to stop by and check out my SS fixing to get covered.
Eddie

Those SS are awesome plane but out of my price range to buy. It's be fun to come down sometime though.

[av8rps]

That is every useful information.... (snip, snip) I was talking to one IA who has worked on a few and he was saying he really likes a model IV with a O-200 modified to put out 115-120hp which really turns it into a rocket ship!

I find that IA's comment interesting as I've been around these planes since their inception in the 80's but have never seen a Kitfox with an 0-200 for power. I admittedly have heard of a few, but kinda think if they worked as good as he described we wouldn't be putting up with the price or complexity of the 912 Rotax.

The Kitfox 4 really was not designed for the weight of a Continental. If that is a desire you need a Model 5 or newer.

But if you want a real hotrod Kitfox 4, just put a 100 hp 912 in it. Or go really crazy and do a 914 or a hopped up 912s turboed to 140 hp. You take a 650 lb Kitfox 4 with that much horsepower and that little weight and you will probably have an airplane that would either blow most people's mind, or maybe scare them :)

[Etp]

I find that IA's comment interesting as I've been around these planes since their inception in the 80's but have never seen a Kitfox with an 0-200 for power. I admittedly have heard of a few, but kinda think if they worked as good as he described we wouldn't be putting up with the price or complexity of the 912 Rotax.

The Kitfox 4 really was not designed for the weight of a Continental. If that is a desire you need a Model 5 or newer.

But if you want a real hotrod Kitfox 4, just put a 100 hp 912 in it. Or go really crazy and do a 914 or a hopped up 912s turboed to 140 hp. You take a 650 lb Kitfox 4 with that much horsepower and that little weight and you will probably have an airplane that would either blow most people's mind, or maybe scare them :)


It is a lot of weight. Haven't heard of a 140hp 912. Seems like longevity would be an issue with that much power. Would make an awesome mountain plane!

[Av8r3400]

A Zipper 1417 (http://zipperbigbore.com/zipper-1417-turbo/) is good for 135 hp if you like a turbo.

A Zipper 1622 High Power (http://zipperbigbore.com/1622-high-power/) is good for 120 without a turbo.

The Zippers have become proven, reliable mods to the 912 series engines.