Any new pilot advice??

[drummerboy1993]

Hi guys,
First thread post, actually this is the first forum Ive joined ever to be honest. I am 23 years old, almost have my PPL and I am looking into purchasing a KF in the future. Maybe in the next year or so. I live in Idaho and I was wondering if any of you seasoned KF pilots had any advice for me, whether it be flying advice, what model and engine to buy, what to look for, what to look out for, etc... I have actually talked to Paul Leadabrand who lives right down the road from me and I actually live 2 towns over from Homedale where KF is made. I have been interested in the KF line of products for some time, but since I have a full time aviation job now at a local FBO, I think I am ready to start genuinely reaching out for any and all advice my ears can listen to. Thank you for your time in talking to a greenhorn who knows little to nothing compared to you guys. :)

[tx_swordguy]

search the forum with any and all questions. Most of what you have asked is in the forums in one form or another. As far as specifics if you CAN'T find it by all means ask away. The avid flyer forum is also a great tool although the search feature is much easier on this forum. Good luck. I just bought an avid and am having a great time learning my "new" 25 year old plane. It is quite small and they do get bumped around in the wind easily but it is a hoot to fly. I would stay away from auto engines especially up there. Not saying this from experience, but from knowledge gained here. They are usually too heavy. Good luck and keep it as light as possible.

[t j]

I lump 'em into three groups.

Models 1, 2, and 3 have the original aileron/flaperon mixer and small tails. Adverse yaw. Curved wing bottom. A few have 503 Rotax engines but most have 582 Rotax. A few 1s and 2s have been modified to use a 912 Rotax...airframe mods needed. The Model 3 could be ordered from the factory with a 912.

Model 4s have deferential Built into the aileron/Flaperon mixer. The flaperon going up goes twice as far as the flaperon going down. Hardly any adverse yaw. They're a little more roomy. Flat bottom wing for higher cruise speed and still low stall speed. Early model 4s are 1050 max gross wt. Later ones are 1200 max gross and have bigger tails. Not hardly any flying with a 503 but there are a few. Lots of 582s and 912s.

Models 5, 6, and 7 are bigger yet. Same wing airfoil as the model 4's. Bigger and heavier, more roomy yet but slower control response. Still much more agile than a Cub though. The factory supported the 582 for the model 5 but I have never seen or even heard of one flying with it. 912 Rotaxes and some small continentals and lycomings being used.

A lower powered plane will make you learn how to fly and pack light. You must have a good understanding of two stroke aircraft engine operation to fly one. A high powered plane will haul more weight faster. Just push in the throttle and hang on.

Buy the latest model you can afford and a 912 if you can afford that too. I see there's a model 4 with a 912 for sale in your neighborhood.

[Wheels]

I fly a IV with a 912. Get the 912 if you can. I love the plane but the older the engine the more you will need to learn to keep it happy and healthy.
I agree, get the newest model you can afford and remember to buy a plane you can afford to fly not the just the plane you can buy.

Go to Stick and Rudder and learn to fly it or you WILL have an adventure that you don't want. These planes are FAST and fun, Light and fun, maneuverable and fun and best of all, they are fun. I"m in Clark Fork Idaho. Grass strip from the ranch.

[HighWing]

I agree with the advice already given. My airplane is a Model IV-1200. It is my second and my personal preference. I like the responsiveness on the controls, and the light weight for performance sake and by that I mean climb and short take offs and landings.

What hit me the most in your post was your age. I only wish there were maany thousands of others like you with the budding passion that so many of us older guys have developed. Reading your post created a curiosity in my mind and I had to check my log book to see where i was when I flew the check ride. I was surprised to find that it was 2 months short of 45 years ago. I learned in a tail dragger and for all practical purposes , that is all I know. I can second the Stick and Rudder advice. One more thought. My two Kitfoxes have honestly brought me together with the closest friends I have ever found in my life. In my experience, there is a magic about the airplane.

[drummerboy1993]

Thank you guys so much for taking the time to reply to a new guy like me. Yes I have been into aviation since I was about 4-5 but only started training 2 years ago at the age of 20. I dont quite have my PPL yet, but when I do, like I said, I am looking to get one of these KF planes to build some cheap mountain time in. I would like to get a 912, but a KF with a newer 582 is more within my price range. There is a KF 2 for sale just on the other side of the Oregon border for $12,900 with a newer blue head in it. I have been told by a few pilots that the 912 is not only more powerful, but more reliable, however, the 2-strokes can be reliable as well just as long as I stay on top of maintenance and upkeep. I would love a 912! But they are q bit more expensive. In your guys' opinion, is the extra stress and maintenance on a 582 worth the price drop? What advantages would I have with a 582? It seems that a 582 would be a good fit for me. I dont want to fly too fast... I just want to have fun, take some friends and family up, and build some cheap time. And as far as the gentleman with the grass strip in Clark Fork, I would love to have my own strip. Been a dream of mine since I moved from South Carolina to the great west at the age of 12 back in 2006. Thanks again for all your input and tips!

[Rooster]

Wow! Drummerboy!
You go for it.
You won't regret the Kitfox route.
I am from South Africa, and a KF4 has come up in a forum with a 582 in it.
http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=176893 (http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=176893)
It has been on for a while, and I am sure they will take less......
At the $us price ($18 180.00 today), I think you can bang in the bigger engine later and still save??

I have no connection to the seller:), but your excitement has rubbed off on me.........

All the best and Kind regards.
Reid

[Dusty]

A kit fox with a 582 is an awesome match and real value for money aircraft but will be a little harder to resell, a kf3 or 4 1050 can be repowered but I believe weight with 2 heavy aviators would put these at or close to max weight.
A nice kf4 1200 with a 582 may be all you require for local flying and if later xcountry flying becomes your thing,a repower could be an option,but before repowering look hard at the economics of selling and buying one with the 912,
The difference in price here is about the cost of a low hour engine!

[HighWing]

When we began flying our flights of 6 to the Idaho Back Country, one of the regulars flew a Model four with a 582. Actually he was our most experienced pilot having flown DC-3s in charter work in his home state of Hawaii. It was fun watching him 1000 feet below us finding the ridge lifts as he climbed. It was like being in flying graduate school for me. He was the guy that always removed the upper cowl at fuelijg. He never had a reliability problem and was cautious what he flew over. I remember once as the group flew over a broad lava field, he commented over the radio that, "that stuff eats airplanes". He was a couple of miles to the west flying over a road. We were always together as his speed was our group speed. Flying alongside him is my only experience with the 582, but it engendered a great respect for the engine. In keeping with other comments, I should mention that fifteen years later, he now Flys behind a 912 UL with the Zipper conversion.

[PapuaPilot]

Keep up your dream of having your own airplane. I bought a C-120 to build my time in when I was in my 20's and it was a great experience.

Realize the cost of having an airplane is much more than the purchase price, fuel and maintenance. The other two big costs are storage (hanger) and insurance. Maintenance has fixed costs for the annual/condition inspection, engine overhaul/replacement, tires, brakes, etc. and unexpected costs when things break unexpectedly.

When I was considering the 582 vs. 912 my conclusion was that the 582 with overhauls every 300 hours would end up costing MORE than the 912 the has an overhaul time of 1500-2000 hours. Of course this is assuming that you own the plane for 1500 hours or more.

You should consider joining a local EAA chapter, which is a great way to rub shoulders and get some input. Chapter 103 meets in Nampa on the second Thursday of each month. Hope to see you there.

If we end up meeting each other it might mean you can get a ride in a fairly new KF 5 :).

[mcomeaux53]

Go fly with Paul some afternoon. Great guy and some nice planes that might help your judgement. I just did some brush up with him and look forward to next year with some mountain flying hopefully.

[rosslr]

HI Drummerboy,

Great to see you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of aviation fun! And you certainly live in a Kitfox 'rich' environment! Visited the factory yet? YOu can learn a lot from immersing yourself in that place! And I hope you read carefully the response from Mr Papua Pilot - especially the last line -"If we end up meeting each other it might mean you can get a ride in a fairly new KF 5." Now this guy knows a thing or two about aircraft and has chosen a Kitfox - I would be going out of my way to take advantage of his offer! And take the time to listen to his VAST experience in real bush flying too in some of the most rugged areas of the world....

Best wishes and look forward to hearing of your adventures.

Cheers

ross