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jrthomas
09-04-2016, 01:11 PM
I'm starting to think about cabin heat again. I found this and the price is right, it looks good and it's from an established company. Anyone know anything about it? http://seareycanada.com/Aircraft%20Cockpit%20Heaters.htm
James Thomas

jiott
09-04-2016, 03:46 PM
James it looks pretty much like the Kitfox factory heater option. Why not just buy theirs and the kit comes with all necessary fittings, hardware, hoses, tees, etc. plus instructions.

jrthomas
09-04-2016, 04:33 PM
I didn't know Kitfox offered a heater. I didn't find one on their website catalog. What most impressed me with the heater from Canadian Light Amphibs is the price compared to others I've found. They offer two heaters. Both have dual fans. The 7500 BTU is $139 and the 15000 BTU is $179. Not sure what hardware is included. Spruce has a similar heater, smaller overall with one fan for $434 minus hardware. They're kind enough to sell the installation hardware for another $243. To me, that price is insane. I can go to NAPA and put together my own for a fraction of that price. But for $139 I'd buy and save myself the trouble. I talked to Deb at Kitfox last week. I didn't think to ask about heaters. I'll give her a call back and if her price is good I'll definitely buy from them. I'll call CLA too and see what hardware comes with theirs. Those "tee" fittings might be hard to find at NAPA if they're not included. I'm not flying another winter without heat. I'll let y'all know what I find out. Thanks, James Thomas

DesertFox4
09-04-2016, 06:04 PM
Kitfox Aircraft's heater kit is pretty comprehensive.:)

avidflyer
09-04-2016, 07:57 PM
That Canadian one looks like it uses an oil cooler for the radiator. Looked on ebay under oil cooler and found this as well as larger ones. Don't know if they will do the job or not. JImChuk
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Racing-15-Row-10AN-engine-Transmission-Oil-Cooler-7-Electric-Fan-Kit/131274490592?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D38804%26meid%3D916018467ccb4c84b53e55bd09e8 d75c%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Da g%26sd%3D191925273321

rv9ralph
09-04-2016, 09:16 PM
The cabin heat kit is on page 22 of the Kitfox Aircraft Parts & Accessories catalog. Here is the listing:

Dual Cabin Heater Kit for Rotax 912, 912S Series 5, 6, 7 and Super Sport Cabin Heater Kit

Heater Kit
Part #10076.500
$399.99

Ralph

efwd
09-04-2016, 11:27 PM
I'm in for $399. I probably don't even need it here in southern California to be quite honest but I don't aim to stick around home you know. Isn't that why we build our own plane? As soon as I need to get my Firewall forward kit I will be getting my heater from John and Debra. I don't want to have to do anymore leg work than I need to. There's a project in my garage to work on.

jrthomas
09-05-2016, 05:06 AM
Thanks avidflyer for the tip on the oil cooler on Ebay. For $84.98 it looks like it would be worth checking out. Thanks rv9ralpf for the tip on the heater from Kitfox. It looks like the heater for the model 3 and 4 is $325. It has a single fan. The larger heater for the models 5, 6 and 7 has 2 fans for $455. So far the heater from CLA looks like the best deal by far with 2 fans for 1/3 the price of the others. I see no reason that the higher priced heaters would be any better or worth 3 time more. In my experience, everything airplane related is overpriced. The worst offender so far is the Neat Heater from Spruce for $677 with installation hardware. I'll make some phone calls today and let y'all know what I find out. James Thomas

wheelerg
09-05-2016, 06:43 AM
I have the kitfox heater and am very happy with the heat provided even in the dead of a Canadian winter

jrthomas
09-06-2016, 05:01 AM
Check this out, 16,000 btu, $190. http://www.universalpartsinc.com/shopping/productDetails.aspx?i=750255&c=10550

Dave S
09-06-2016, 07:02 AM
JR,

Be aware that you will probably need the radiator "T" fittings also if your plane does not currently have a heater. I believe everything, including the "T"s came with my heater kit.

I am very much in favor of having a two separate switchs for the two fan system - on our S7, I installed a single switch which often means: run it and cook or turn it off and freeze.

jrthomas
09-06-2016, 09:02 AM
UPI sells "Y" fittings, similar to "T" fittings but with a slant for $16.95 each. I have the nice aviation quality hose clamps already so I won't need to order those. They also sell a shut off valve for $15.00. I think I'll give them a call. It looks like the best deal overall I've been able to find if you consider BTU, overall size and price.

jiott
09-06-2016, 09:11 AM
Dave, You could easily convert your single switch to a single 3-way switch using the same hole in the panel. My 3-way works great: center-off; down-one fan; up-two fans. Just a little rewiring.

colospace
09-06-2016, 03:29 PM
I have no clue yet (Turtle Build you know) as to whether it is the best way to go, but I made an airflow diverter to separate the flow of each fan to their respective footwells. I plan to put the fans on separate switches to allow pilot or passenger to turn on according to their needs. I also have a control valve to modulate water flow(with its knob just under the panel to the right of the throttle and choke). It is set forward to avoid interference with the right stick.

kitfox2009
09-06-2016, 03:57 PM
Hi Gary
Very cool looking installation. Not sure if you will benefit from the diverter or not. I also have a control valve but usually run it wide open and just flip the power switch on or off as necessary. Nice touch on yours though. Great looking work.
Cheers
Do

inzersv
09-07-2016, 11:08 AM
I have the Kitfox heater and have the copilot side blowing down and the pilot side blowing up for defrost. I flew with a friend in his KF IV on ski's a few winter's ago here in the Pacific NW and we never turned the heat on. My way, the wife can't complain and the windshield can be deiced if need be. Each side is on a separate switch.

jrthomas
09-07-2016, 01:04 PM
I ordered this one after lots of looking. http://www.universalpartsinc.com/shopping/productDetails.aspx?i=750255&c=10550 At 16,000 BTU's I should be able to roast a turkey. It should be an easy install with its compact size. There's no reason these things should be so expensive, just a heater core with a fan behind it. I wish cooling was so simple. With all the Lexan over head, full acrylic doors and turtledeck, it's like a greenhouse inside if the sun's shining. Winters tend to be fairly mild in NC but when you need heat, you need it bad. I should be able to fly without a jacket this winter. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

TJay
09-10-2016, 07:15 PM
Ha roast a turkey I like that, hopefully not suck all the heat right out of your engine,

jabkwab
01-18-2017, 01:38 PM
I am working on a cabin heater for my model 4, and filosophizing a little about efficiency.
My thought is that water always follows the way of least resistance which, mainly because of the thinner hoses to the heater core and the restriction of the ball valve, would be mainly via the belly radiator. Therefore reducing the efficency of the heater core.

Would it be worth to install a three way ball valve in the coolant lines? This would give the possibily to divert coolant from the belly radiator to the heater core, maximizing capacity.
Downside would be that such a ball valve is quite hefty, I have one laying around and it weighs about 3 pounds.

Of course you would need to watch out for engine overheating with the belly radiator completely blocked, my theory is that during very cold weather a big enough heater core ( I am planning on using one originally used on one of those Thielert aircraft diese engines) this won't be too big of a problem.
Also, these three way valves theoretically have infinite intermediate positions. Allowing coolant to flow both to the radiator and the heater core.

So the big question is, would this extra weight and complexity be worth is? Or is my rambling mind seeing problems that really don't exist?

I am curious to your thoughts


Jan

jiott
01-18-2017, 02:31 PM
I think you are overkilling a problem that doesn't exist. Don't know the low ambient temps you fly in, but a heater core of the size you are considering with a big heavy 3-way valve and large hoses sounds like extreme overkill. The standard heater core that Kitfox sells has been adequate for most of us including those that fly in northern Minnesota and Canada (maybe those guys will chime in if I am wrong). And this is without any 3-way valve to force more flow thru the heater core-enough naturally flows thru to do the job.

My system has no valve, not even a 2-way shut-off in the heater line. In the hot summer coolant still flows thru, but with the fans turned off I don't feel any noticeable heat. A very effective, simple and lightweight system. I know there are quite a few guys who installed a heater shut-off valve, but maybe they fly in Arizona where even a tad of extra cabin heat is a problem.

Av8r3400
01-18-2017, 03:00 PM
I do not have a valve in the heater core line. I didn't in my old plane either. It wasn't necessary. I do have one of Lowell's in line thermostats to the belly radiator on the Mangy, though. This does help in diverting more heat to the core than without.

DesertFox4
01-18-2017, 03:41 PM
I can't think of any Kitfoxs that I fly with here in Arizona that have a shut off valve on the heater core. I know I'm not installing one in mine. Not sure we would notice a little extra heat on a 110 degree day anyway. ;)

Dave S
01-18-2017, 04:31 PM
HI Jan,

I don't know that it is necessary to try to divert more coolant to the heater.....with the standard setup for our S7...we stay quite comfy in the cabin flying in temps of -15 to -20 C. We do not fly in temps colder than -25 C.

I started out with a shutoff valve to close off the heater in the summer but found that my experience was similar to others who have reported that without a shutoff valve very little heat comes through to the cabin with the fans off...I eventually removed the valve in favor of simplicity and a very small weight reduction.

I can see where a valve which can regulate the water flow would help controlling the cabin temp in those in-between temps as full heat is way too much.

I think the biggest issue in maintaining a comfortable cabin temp in very cold weather is minimizing the number of "pneumonia holes" or cabin leaks.....the current Kitfox model is much easier to tighten up than the earlier versions.

kmach
01-18-2017, 09:29 PM
Dave S is right , its the air leaks around the cockpit that get you.
The standard kf heater kit for my 5 keeps me warm at -20C

jiott
01-19-2017, 11:25 AM
Just as a comparison; the heater core in your car is very similar in size to the standard Kitfox heater core, and the coolant temp flowing thru it is also roughly the same temp. Your car stays warm in very cold temps but the car cabin volume is much bigger than a Kitfox cockpit. I agree the heater is fine, the main problems are the leaks and drafts. The slots and openings in the tail for the stab trim are major scoops of cold air that then blows forward on the back of your neck. Seal these up with some flexible rubber like Floog did and its like doubling your heater size.

neville
01-21-2017, 07:05 AM
Colospace, please post the info on the valve shown in the 3rd picture. Mainly where to get one and size of ports

colospace
01-21-2017, 10:17 AM
First, I have to give credit to John Evens for finding this valve. It is from Peterson Fluid Systems (Henderson, CO). My build log just notes it as being -8, push-on. Check their web site petersonfluidsys.com