Kitfox IV offer - ask for advice

[Thommy]

Hello everybody
I am new to this forum and quite new in the topic of kitfoxes at all …


My history of flying: I started in the end 90s as a hang-glider pilot, after a while I added paragliding also powered paragliding and ended two years ago with the PPL license (here EU-LAPL(A)). So we went to the next airfield (me and a friend) and we bought a PA28-160 from 1962 …
But the flying in a PA28 is not that what I wanted to do, sitting in a big piece of metal like an airline pilot …


So why I am writing this is to ask for some advice.
I god a Kitfox IV offered, which has been in the air for only 25 hours, the age is about 6 years. The power plant is an interesting Nissan MA12 engine with 1.2 liter and 65hp.



Looks ok, but not brand new, of course, need minor work before flying.
I would like to buy this kitfox, but I am a stupid beginner in terms of kitfoxes.
What do you think is a common marked price for such a baby? Here in Germany prices vary quite a lot and comparing with Avid or Eurofox are difficult.


What is the most important thing I have to look at?
Are there obvious things to look at to see “bad handling history”?



I know it is difficult to judge a plane or give advice through the internet, but I thought I would try it here in this forum.
Thank you, any comment is welcome, and sorry for my poor English.



Greetings
Thommy

[Av8r3400]

That plane with that engine will be very heavy and underpowered. I would advise to keep looking.

Just my opinion.

[rosslr]

Larry, I assume that being heavy, it would also push the CG forward and affect trim?

r

[avidflyer]

If it's only flown for 25 hrs in 6 years, there probably is a good reason for the lack of flying time on the plane. Maybe the seller realizes this, and will let it go at a reasonable enough price where you could re-engine the plane so it would be a better airplane. If you want a Kitfox aircraft, I would guess the supply of them in Europe is rather limited, and you may not have as many options as someone over here in the USA. Jim Chuk

[Thommy]

Thank you for all the information

if I consider to change the engine would the "pure" frame be worth 23000$?
I could fly with this engine and maybe change later …
Are there any “weak” spots I have to take a closer look? Can a frame, control-cables etc. or the fabric become “old” over 6 years? Or is it rather a “new” plane? I have seen several from the early nighties with prices around 15k$ to 20k$

Greetings
Thommy

[avidflyer]

If you figure the engine is worthless, then $23,000 it pretty expensive for the rest of the plane. I don't have any idea of the price of Kitfoxes in Europe though. I'm referring to the US market where there are a lot more of them available. A 6 year old Kitfox is pretty new, but then so much will also depend on how good of a job the builder did on the plane. Jim Chuk

[kmach]

The builder got creative/experimental with his choice of engine. What is the empty weight ? and gross take off weight ?
The question of what other areas did this occur popped into my head, Take a long hard look at the workmanship, get an aircraft maintenance engineer to inspect before making any purchase decisions .

I personally would make a list of what you want in an aircraft, engine, avionics, weights ,... and wait for something that matches.

Some items are an easy replace item , those would not affect my decision. An engine is not easy to convert or cheap. start with the engine mount, the engine itself, controls, gauges, propeller, cowl.

If you have some detailed pictures that would help in advising.

[TY2068]

Get in touch with Olle1975 here on the forum. If he's close and/or willing maybe he can inspect it and give you an informed opinion. No harm in asking right ?

Here's his YouTube Channel.

Olle1975 Kitfox

Nissan MA-12 powered Kitfox
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IysEwZKDndM

Looks like about 1,000'/min climb to me.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3kK-V7Y8R0c

[Thommy]

Hi

I talked to the person on the video you (from TY2068) have posted "JohannUL", he is very nice and told me that I could easily buy the plane. He has seen it when it was not stringed he knows the former owner of the plane. The former owner was a car-mechanics … He also said it is no problem with the Nissan Engine it runs well and consumes less … few things make me little nervous: he said that the flaperons need to be guided with a bearing on the fuselage … the “collecting tank” should be installed. In addition, some sort of aileron or elevator “way” limiter need to be installed …
I have not heard or read , of any structural failures of the K-IV so hopeful this one was build correctly and hopeful the builder used to use the right glue where is needed … J
I don’t know what the builder kit for a Kitfox costs but I assume it is more than 23,000 and not to forget the assembling hours …?

The plane has 289 kg or 637,136 lb (pound)

cheers
Thommy

[TY2068]

In the comments section underneath one of the videos Johann states that the Nissan engine is delivering about 75hp and the plane has an approximate 1,000'/min climb rate. Not an expert by any mean but I'm fairly impressed by what I see in the videos. As long as it was never been crashed and repaired I'd have little reservation buying it at that asking price. In Germany the chance to buy any Kitfox is surely limited.