Ready for DAR

[jonstark]

I'm just about ready to have a DAR come look over my model IV.

What recommendations would you offer?
It's my first kit built but am A&P with IA for many years.

Thx,
Jon

[jiott]

I would recommend you visit your local EAA chapter meeting and ask those guys who they recommend and who to avoid. Should be lots of local experience there.

[jmodguy]

What jiott said...

[DesertFox4]

Make sure your paperwork is in order. Have cowlings off and maybe tail fairings for inspection. I can't remember if I had my seat out for inspection. Too long ago since my 4 was inspected. Weight and balance was looked over by my DAR.
He did look through my photo album of the build. Seems like evey inspection is different. Good luck.

[jonstark]

By paperwork do you mean anything beyond registration and weight and balance?

I have no photographic documentation of the build nor any build logbook. Just a lot of dirty pages in the builders manual. I'm hoping my credentials carry the day.

Jon

[Flybyjim]

Why did you not keep a photo and written log of the build, this is paramount in the inspection and working with the DAR. Same is true to get the repairman certificate.

[Dave S]

Jon,

The assembly manual, which has places for dates & signatures etc. can serve as a build log book. Since you are an A& P with an IA you won't need a repairmans cert to do the annual condition inspection.

[Flybyjim]

So please correct me here if I am wrong. Just because you have your A&P/IA does not excuse a person from proving you actually built the plane does it? Just a question and clarification for future situations.

[jrthomas]

I took lots of pictures during my build. My DAR never looked at them. As far as I know, there's no requirement to keep a builders log. I didn't keep one and my DAR didn't ask for one. The number one thing is to have all your paperwork. Here's what I have in my notes, 8050-3 aircraft registration form, 8130-6 application for airworthiness certificate, 8130-12 eligibility statement and airframe and engine logbooks. He also required me to make up a flight test program. There's no official form for this so I made up my own. I had a pretty extensive list with temps, rate of climb, stall speeds, best approach speeds, stuff like that. It's been a while so I may be leaving something out. It's really not that big a deal if you're prepared. I talked to my DAR ahead of time and even faxed some of my paperwork to him ahead of time to be sure I had it all right. A good DAR is going be a great help and he'll do all he can to help you to get everything right. I can't say enough good things about mine. He's done 2 planes for me and annuals too. Good luck, James Thomas

[jrthomas]

Oh, and one more thing, your weight and balance sheet. James Thomas

[jonstark]

Thank you James. Just what I needed.

Jon

[jrthomas]

Glad to help Jon. James Thomas

[dcsfoto]

better check with a DAR first photos are a requirement

I have a DAR friend in your area call me if you want

David Kelm
Kitfox SS 912iS
A&P,IA,DART,DARF
501-804-9285

[jmodguy]

David
Can you point me to the FAA document that says photos are required? I did some digging after I read your post and didn't see anything requiring photos.

Thanks
Jeff

[dcsfoto]

will do tonight

you can look at FAA Order 8130.2H

note: when you google you will also see 8130.21H that is for FAA Form 8130-3 tags

[bumsteer]

I only did a quick scan but Para. 459 e says pictures MAY be used as documentation but I don't see REQUIRED used anywhere. Hopefully David will provide the correct paragraphs.

Rick

[jiott]

My DAR didn't ask for any photos or build log. I was surprised. He did look at a couple of EAA Technical Counselor reports that I showed him. He walked around the plane for no more than 10 minutes; the rest was all paperwork. I know they are all different, but that was my experience. Kind of a let-down actually.

[dcsfoto]

Para 459(e) is correct

first there is FAA DC Policy then Regional Policy now down to Office Policy.

In my area , due to all the builders for hire our office policy is to look close at photos and the build log. The Kitfox build manual is what i am using along with photos.

Best to get a DAR and see what they need

I do Kitfox aircraft in my area for free but I am in Little Rock Ar

call me if needed

David Kelm

[Dutch]

My experience was about the same as Jim. Getting the repairman certificate however was another matter. The FAA guy wanted way more selfies than I was able to produce. He finally relented when I explained to him that I was the one who took the photos & therfore could. Not possibly be in the pics. Anyway good luck.

Dutch

[tommg13780]

I think Dutch has brought up the most relevant point. The purpose of build log is to verify that all construction work was done by amateur labor. I've been through 3 original A/W inspections and build log was never mentioned unless I volunteered to show it. All of these inspections were done by a DAR. I'm ready to ask for a repairman certificate on my 4-1200 and that has to be done at the FSDO, at least that's the policy in the Albany, NY FSDO. I'm in the same situation as Dutch with lots of photos, text and receipts but none with my face in the picture. As I understand it the repairman interview is generally done by an FAA administrator at his/her desk. A possible substitute for the selfie type photos may be a sworn affidavit that's been notorized stating that you have performed the build labor with possible exception of allowed tasks such as paint work etc. good luck, we have a great guy (DAR) that's authorized to inspect in your area as well as most of the New England states. His contract is through the Boston MIDO. He's quite reasonable on price and travel expense.

[jonstark]

[QUOTE=tommg We have a great guy (DAR) that's authorized to inspect in your area as well as most of the New England states. His contract is through the Boston MIDO. He's quite reasonable on price and travel expense.[/QUOTE]

The FAA DAR directory is out of date. They have all retired in my area. What is your man's name? Local builders are now having to use a FSDO inspector.

Jon

[tommg13780]

Ron Jones, DAR located in Eaton, NY, near KVGC. 315-684-7221. He generally answers the phone at his shop. I'd suggest a pre-inspection meeting to review paperwork for errors and omissions. After that he opens a "window" that may be 30 days to actually perform the inspection. The paperwork is by far more critical to a successful outcome that the airplane.

http://eatonaviation.com/

[efwd]

Hello Gentlemen.
With regard to a builders log. I started construction of my SS7 March 12 of this year. I have not created a builders log outside of placing dates on the pages of the construction manual. My RV4 I started 15 years ago didn't come with such a manual that has the completion date lines to fill in so I kinda thought this would suffice. I have been meaning to call John to ask this question but since your mentioning this here I guess its as good a place as any to get some information. I have been taking photos of my boys and I doing the build so I should be fine by the end with photo documentation but the log? Are you just "journaling" the build in a book as I did years ago or how exactly do they wish for you to log the time? It seems journaling is just going to be paraphrasing the construction manual.
Thanks
Eddie

[DesertFox4]

Eddie, you should be fine with using the build manual. It has a place for date and your initials when a build task has been completed. That was acceptable to my DAR back in 2003 for my model 4 build along with photos. Of my current build I bet I have 500 plus photos already and many more to come before completion.

I do recommend keeping photos of the build and trying to get yourself in as many of the photos as practical throughout the different phases of the build. If I find myself alone and wanting a photo of a part of the build with myself in the photo as proof, I set my digital camera on the timed photo setting and quickly get into the shot before the timer takes the photo. After I accumulate a batch of photos I transfer them to a flash drive containing all my build photos. That flash drive then goes into my fire proof safe until the next download of photos. With photos of you building and your dated and initialled build manual, it would be hard to dispute just who did the majority of the construction, either for your airworthiness certificate or your repairmans certificate.

[jiott]

Another really good reason to take lots of photos is for the benefit of the people on this forum. After you are done with the build and happily flying, many of us find it interesting and helpful to others still building by continuing to be part of this forum and sharing our experiences. Many times someone will ask a question about some part of the build or modification they made and it is great to have a store of detail photos you can share to show how you did it. I wish I had taken more close-up detail photos in addition to the general overall views.