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Kitfox Guy
02-10-2016, 05:08 PM
My Odyssey PC 680 battery gave out today after 15 years of service! Before I go out and buy another PC 680, I want to find out what improvements in battery technology have been made in the last 15 years, and what other Kitfox flyers are using.

ken nougaret
02-10-2016, 05:58 PM
Wow, 15 years, Thats the kind of endorsement that leads me to getting an odyssey 680 for my project. I was going to get the earthx lithium but am worried about a lithium fire. The size of the 2 batteries is the same. Im going with the odyssey.

n85ae
02-10-2016, 06:08 PM
I use a Scorpion, I'll try to find the part number. It's same size as PC-680
but cranks my IO-240B a lot better, cost less as well.

I replaced my PC-680 with it, and I would buy another.

I'm sure you can find one here:

http://www.scorpionbattery.com/

Jeff

SkySteve
02-10-2016, 06:14 PM
I bought an Odyssey PC625 in 2007. I just bought a new one for my Kitfox and put the old one in my 4 wheeler. I only bought a new one because the battery in my 4 wheeler gave out and I thought it might be time for a new one in the Kitfox. The 625 is 2 lbs lighter than the 680, has higher CCA and higher reserves.

Dave S
02-10-2016, 08:17 PM
Kitfox Guy,

We have a unique electrical system.....added the aux alternator, separate busses for each alternator and two PC 680's - and a cross tie.

The Primary 680 was installed in 2007 prior to the airworthiness inspection and a brand X gel battery from Batteries + for the secondary. The Brand X died after 15 months & replaced that with a PC 680.

To date, both 680's are doing fine - with the "resting" voltage right where it was when new. Cranking speed and capacity does not seem to have changed any since new - engine spins over like it should on either or both batteries.

Sincerely,

Dave S

kmach
02-10-2016, 08:53 PM
EarthX , 36C I believe is the model I put in last summer , lots of power and light.

n85ae
02-11-2016, 09:24 AM
I'd add a comment about the PC-680's, I was pretty enamored with mine at
first as it was better than the stock B&C, however when I was looking into
the Scorpions (which are used a lot on motorcycles). I realized the specs
were better than the PC-680, and where my IO-240 could be a bear to start
in the cold with the PC-680, it is considerably easier with the Scorpion which
has a lot more Cold Cranking Amps. It also cost a LOT less than the PC-680

I have a really big quick disconnect under the instrument panel, and use
it to plug in a car battery as a booster for really cold weather if I can't preheat.
Nothing in the tail is cranking the IO-240 when the temps are
zero if it isn't heated first.

I don't know anything about the EarthX, they look good, but seem like they're expensive.

Regards,
Jeff

kmach
02-11-2016, 12:00 PM
Yes,
The EarthX are pricey, but in the weight savings they might be worth it if weight is an issue, I think it weighs around 3 lbs or less and has 360 cca if I remember right. My old battery was 200 CCA and 12 lb. I notice a huge difference on starting, but I also have the high torque starter now as well with the new uls.

Av8r3400
02-11-2016, 07:29 PM
…and the Earth-X batteries are really fun when they spontaneously explode, melt and spray scalding hot blue goo all over the place.

http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/uploads/monthly_07_2014/post-352-0-14407500-1406127318_thumb.jpg

http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/uploads/monthly_07_2014/post-352-0-88786600-1406127679_thumb.jpg

No, it's not my airplane, but a friend's Avid.

I'll stick with my heavy Odyssey 680. Mounting it in the tail helps the airplane handle better, anyway.

kmach
02-11-2016, 08:06 PM
That doesn't look good! What circumstances led to this? Overvoltage ?

I have had mine for only six months, 45 hrs airtime , so far so good.
I know in the instructions they warned about improper boosting.I should look for the book.
I believe the factory is using these , so time will tell I guess.

Av8r3400
02-11-2016, 09:15 PM
He was taxiing at the time, low rpm, with lower voltage on the volt meter.

jiott
02-11-2016, 10:53 PM
Can you find out exactly what model # that Earth-X battery was? I understand they have many models, but only recommend 3 models for aircraft use.

kmach
02-12-2016, 12:07 PM
After seeing the failed battery picture , I did a google search for problems with the EarthX and one of the results was this particular avid story on the avid forum.

jiott
02-12-2016, 01:07 PM
I also did a little research on this and find that the battery in question was not one of the 3 "aircraft" batteries. It was a much smaller battery used with a 583 2-stroke Rotax engine with a pull-starter, so it wasn't even used for start cranking. Don't know what kind of a charging system or voltage regulator is used on a 583, so this may or may not have anything to do with it.

One thing worth noting is that the battery failure was not really an "explosion" but rather a bursting of the case with hot material being sprayed out. There was no fire involved. This is quite a bit different than most other Li-Ion (Earth-X is Li-Iron) batteries that do explode and almost always catch fire. I may be splitting hairs here, but want to point out some differences.

I'm not advocating one type battery over another here, but am very interested and will be watching this closely. I have had the AeroVotz Li-Iron battery in my SS7 with Rotax 912uls for 2.5 years now and have had no problems. When time to replace it I was strongly considering the Earth-X but will be keeping my eyes and options open.

cubtractor
02-12-2016, 02:32 PM
I've been using the Aerovoltz battery for almost 2 years and it's worked great.

jmodguy
02-14-2016, 06:07 PM
Scorpion batteries..... Made in communist China hmmmmm
They stole my personal info from OPM. Gee I get free credit monitoring for a couple years.
They have stolen and continue to steal our tech info. Pretty much everything in our lives is made in China nowadays.
Superior, ECI, Cessna, Mooney, Beechcraft, Continental.... When is it going to end...

neville
02-15-2016, 06:56 AM
With 912iS, Rotax created a service instruction stating 912iS with LI-ion
battery must have an internal battery management system. John Mc B made up
a kit to replace the original Aervoltz with an EarthX which has the BMS.
Installs nicely and has caused no problems after 40 hrs.

jrevens
02-15-2016, 04:37 PM
I'm going to use the made in the USA Deka that Kitfox provided with my kit. It's an AGM battery like the Odysseys, and very reasonably priced & available from multiple sources on the internet as well as locally here in Denver. 220 CCA. I'm not really worried about the weight of the battery at this point - I understand that the newer model Kitfoxes tend to be a little tail heavy, if anything, anyway. Might as well use an inexpensive, reliable battery to start out with - that's what I'm thinking.

PapuaPilot
02-15-2016, 07:19 PM
I'm using an Odyssey 680. It is doing a great job from the tail for starting the engine. I couldn't afford to go any lighter in the tail because of the CG.

jrevens
02-15-2016, 08:37 PM
Makes sense, Phil. I should have said that the Rotax powered Series 7 may typically be a little tail heavy. If you want to carry a load in the baggage area, the heavier, cheaper batteries located in the engine compartment might be a good choice. Can anyone confirm that?

jiott
02-15-2016, 09:37 PM
I think you are right John, but its only a small amount. Since the battery on the firewall is about the same distance ahead of the CG as the baggage is behind the CG, a 10 lb heavier battery will allow about 10 lb more baggage without affecting CG.

I have the Aerovoltz lightweight battery and I nearly always go over max gross (1320 lbs) before I go out of CG range no matter how I configure my load. So I would make my battery choice based on other factors. The thing I really, really like about the Lithium battery is the way it holds charge. I can let the plane sit for a month or more in the winter and it will not lose even a 1/10 of a volt. I never hook up a trickle charger or "battery minder".

colospace
05-12-2016, 07:30 PM
I'm in the process of selecting a battery (likely an AGM). In reviewing the batteries mentioned in this forum, I'm am surprised at no mention of using a Yuasa as these seem to be almost the default battery on motorcycles.
Is anyone using Yuasa or have rationale for not using one?