After Market Fuel Injection

[Esser]

I was asked to start our own thread on this topic. Last year we bought an SDS fuel injection system after many high reviews of the product.

The system will ballpark cost you about $3000-$3500 for the Rotax. That includes everything you need.

The system gets you 10% power or 10% more efficiency. Or a combo of less of both.

Due to my obvious lack of time in the past two years, we haven't hooked up the system fully and have not ran it. Scott Noble may chip in here as he is looking at the same system.

http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b423/joshesser/Kitfox%20Build/12BC06E7-72B3-4F06-B50C-A4BF15AC4F75_zps9kod6bje.jpg (http://s1042.photobucket.com/user/joshesser/media/Kitfox%20Build/12BC06E7-72B3-4F06-B50C-A4BF15AC4F75_zps9kod6bje.jpg.html)

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b423/joshesser/Kitfox%20Build/BE51CA57-35E9-4ECC-92D8-0CAD9F55B939_zpsy6w7htxf.jpg (http://s1042.photobucket.com/user/joshesser/media/Kitfox%20Build/BE51CA57-35E9-4ECC-92D8-0CAD9F55B939_zpsy6w7htxf.jpg.html)

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b423/joshesser/Kitfox%20Build/44FF5B2E-3444-4F39-B2FB-E301531505CC_zpsj60m69ss.jpg (http://s1042.photobucket.com/user/joshesser/media/Kitfox%20Build/44FF5B2E-3444-4F39-B2FB-E301531505CC_zpsj60m69ss.jpg.html)

[jmodguy]

Will be interesting to see how this works out. I am going with the flyefii.com version which is built off of the SDS.
The SDS system (and EFII) has a pretty good track record in auto racing and aviation.
Good luck and keep us posted!

[WWhunter]

Yes, please keep us posted!! I looked at it, around the same time as you purchased yours, and realized I didn't have the time or enough knowledge in these systems to warrant buying one. Besides, I didn't want to be the test pilot. ;)
Hopefully as more of these units are sold and used there will be a baseline of feedback.

jmodguy,
I looked at the efii site and didn't see anything for the Rotax, you have any other info for it?

[jmodguy]

I emailed Robert a few months back and he has put his system on hold for now.
I am going with a Lycoming. The EFII system is pretty well tested on Lycomings, as is the SDS system.
Regards
Jeff

[AirFox]

Josh good idea starting the post! I have been looking at a fuel injection system for a while now and this is what I've learned so far. I am still gathering info so this list will expand as I learn more.

EFI Advantages:
1. Runs the Rotax smother throughout the RPM Range.
2. Less maintenance than the Carbs. No Sync, rebuilds,
3. Fuel Savings.
4. Performance increase. More HP where you need it. Smooth Idle at 1400 RPM - Steeper decent.
5. ???

Disadvantages:
1. Flight depends on the Electrical system, fuel pumps, injectors, throttle body vs Carbs, mech fuel pump.
2.???

I have looked at 3 possible solutions so far.

1.Flyefii.com - Not Rotax specific?
2.EdgePerformance.no - Expensive and based on the SDS system and marked up. They are in Norway and the price is pretty high.
3.SDS - http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html OR http://www.sdsefi.com/rotax.htm
SDS has almost everything you need except the intake manifold. They are coming out with an intake manifold soon according to SDS. At this point this is my choice. Lots of advantages take a look at the links above.

I have taken a close look at and installed system from EdgePerformance. The owner had to rebuild the intake manifold to fit inside his cowl. The injectors stick out too far and the manifold sets too close to the gearbox. That has been my main concern fitting it on my Rotax 912 S under the Kitfox Super Sport cowl with Airmaster Prop control. You can find pictures they post on Facebook. The performance is very smooth and maintenance free according to the airplane mechanic.

I got a quote from SDS and I can get everthing except the intake manifold for around $3500. Including the following.
EM-5 4D
Hall sensor
1 Bar MAP sensor
Magnet disc
Hall sensor mount
Dual pump module
4 X injectors
4 X aluminum injector bosses
AN6 regulator
45mm throttle body bare aluminum or gold anodized
Optional TPS
Optional wideband AFR kit to tune the system .

We have the new fuel trim software now available which allows to to
individually lean or richen each cylinder 10% in flight. That is a $300
option if you want it.


I am looking at getting getting the manifold custom built like the one that I looked at.

I'll keep updating this post as my project continues.

Scott

[jmodguy]

Something you might want to consider for an electrically dependent system is failure modes. Your fuel pump and ECU will not function without power.
Modern day autos will not run without a power source and neither will an aircraft engine with an ECU/electric pump. That said - your car is a bit less frightening if the power goes away.
These concerns are not "project enders" or a reason to not do it if you have a plan to mitigate the risk.
Typically backup batteries are used and there are battery management systems that will allow charging and use of a dual battery system. FlyEFII has a Bus Manager for dual batteries and I am sure there are others.
I understand that there are even lightweight LiPO 12V batteries available now if you are worried about excess weight.
Look into these products as you are planning your systems and you will have less to worry about when you are out and about and your battery goes south on you!

[AirFox]

I'm using 2 batteries along with the generator so I'll have plenty of warning before I loose the redundant fuel pumps.

[GuppyWN]

How long will the system operate on battery power -

When you load shed nothing?
When you load shed EVERYTHING but the fuel injection/pump?

[jmodguy]

How long will the system operate on battery power -

When you load shed nothing?
When you load shed EVERYTHING but the fuel injection/pump?

That would be determined by the battery "size", what other systems/devices you have installed and and would be best addressed by the manufacturer/distributor. The pump is definitely the power hog though...
On your last statement you will also need power for the ECU, otherwise you would be squirting fuel into an engine with no spark!

[Esser]

Ross from SDS said you will have about 30 to 45 min of time in an electrical failure depending on your loads. I feel that is more than enough time in most situations to set yourself up for a non life threatening event. We are setting up our plane with an essential bus and then a secondary bus with a two battery approach as described in AeroElectric connection.

We adding a single injector in the middle of the intake manifold that will be a 70% power back up in the highy unlikely event of an ECU failure that will be controlled by a CB.

[AirFox]

EFI Update

It's been a while since I posted my search for an EFI system. I decided on the Edgeperformance.no 4-1 directport fuel injection system.

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Lots of work went into determining what system would fit under my SS7 cowl. I ordered the "Trixy" intake with the injectors facing forward and aft to clear the cowl. The Trixy intake is swept aft for clearance for the Airmaster slip rings on the aft of the gearbox. The top of the intake clears the cowl by a little more than a 1/2 inch.

Over the past week or so I have been installing the system. The system consists of the intake manifold, Pressure Regulator, vac manifod, ECU, O2 sensor, wire harness, ECI relocation brackets, and Dual fuel pump with hoses and connectors. I've spent about 25 hours on the installation. I'm pretty happy with all the components so far. The system is installed and ready for operation. I found a leak on one of the AN 6 PTFE fuel fittings. This fuel system is really nice but you have to order/wait for everything. As soon as the fitting arrives I'll be starting the engine.

13632

I installed an extra EarthX(2.5lb offset by the weight saved on the EFI sys) battery that will automatically power the ECU and Fuel pumps in the event the Regulator and/or main Battery fails.

Thought there was interest on this upgrade so I'll keep you posted on the first run and results of the upgrade.

Scott

[rosslr]

Hi Scotty,

Nice work - it will be good to hear how you find it when flying. What was your main motivation for doing it? Did you install the Earth X as an additional battery? I have the Earth X as the only battery with a bypass to start and run the engine in the event of computer system failure. (912is sport). Also, I've been away for nearly 4 weeks and the temps have been minus most evenings so I was curious as to the state of the battery on return. It showed 11.7 volts but started up the engine with ease. It has 300 hours on it now and I guess double or triple that no of starts. Happy with it so far and interested to see how many years I get out of it.

cheers for now

r

[AirFox]

Hay Ross,

My primary purpose of the EFI is to modernize the fuel system. The last push was the latest Rotax float recall. I had a sunk float last October and I'm still waiting for a float replacement. Luckily a good friend(Thanks John) came through with a spare float or I would have been grounded all winter/spiring. In the thread above I listed pros/cons for EFI.

I am running the second battery primarily to extend the range of my electrically dependent fuel pump and ECU power. The battery should give me an additional 45 minutes of power with the extra battery.

I will keep posting my progress as I continue this upgrade.

Good to hear from you Ross.

Scott

[DesertFox4]

Looks like a clean install Scott. I imagine you are after more horsepower with this setup. Nice looking components.

[Av8r3400]

Looking forward to a detailed performance report!

[68niou1]

Nice write up Scott- thanks for taking the time to post. Anxiously awaiting results!😃👍

[kmach]

Nice!
Looking forward to your reports.

[AirFox]

'THIS IS HOW A ROTAX 912 ULS(Now Injected Sport) IS SUPPOSED TO OPERATE' My main goal for this installation was to get a smooth running engine. I couldn't be more happy with the results. This engine runs very smooth throuout the RPM range. With the ULS dual carbs I couldn't sync the carbs perfectly throughout the full RPM range. There was always a little rough spot around 2700 RPM and various other vibration issues. I can only imagine a smooth engine will help this engine last. An added benifit was a bit more HP and better fuel burn. At this point I'm think I gained about 4 mph in cruise and gains in fuel burn as well. I will update this post as I continue testing.

I have my EFI installed and over 3 hours of flight time so far. The installation took approximately 25 hours. I had one HP fuel hose leak otherwise the installation was pretty easy. Startup was even easier.

Below are my original arguments for doing this upgrade.
EFI Advantages:
1. Runs the Rotax smother throughout the RPM Range. Check
2. Less maintenance than the Carbs. No Sync, rebuilds. Check
3. Fuel Savings. Check
4. Performance increase. More HP where you need it. Smooth Idle at 1400 RPM - Steeper decent. Check


Disadvantages:
1. Flight depends on the Electrical system, fuel pumps, injectors, throttle body vs Carbs, mech fuel pump. The Ducati Regulator is handling the load so far. There is about an 8A load for the EFI system at full power. I installed a full size backup battery for extended range 2.5lb EarthX. This weight was more than offset by getting rid of the carbs ect.


This is a picture of my EFIS at my normal cruise settings.
13659
This is a picture of my EFIS at 5400 at 90% power setting.
13660
This is a picture of my EFIS at Vy Climb.
13661

As you can see in the attached pictures ballanced EGT's, CHT's and great performance. I have a SS7 with 26" Airstreaks and an Airmaster. I was able to cruise at 139mph Max RPM. WOW is the best description.

Scott

[DesertFox4]

Good news in your report Scott.

Sounds like your primary objective may have already been met. A few extra ponies is a pretty nice bonus especially if you don't have to feed them extra hay.

Best of luck. Will look for future feedback.

[TJay]

How do the O2 Sensors you used like 100LL? There have been some reports in the past about that causing issues.

[AirFox]

We'll have to see on the LL. I am running Mogas at so far. The manual does say to use Mogas. The ECU does not use the o2 sensor at this point. There are plans to incorporate it. At this point the expectation is to manually modify the map based on what you observe from the o2 sensor gauge and the egt's.

[colospace]

Scott, did you have to do anything with your AFS setup due to the EFI?

[Esser]

Scott, glad to see you went with the system and you're happy with it. Are your running just one alternator still?

Makes me excited to finish my plane off.

[jiott]

Looks like your charging system may be barely keeping up, with amps running 23-14 and voltage at 13.2. Normally isn't the voltage at a steady 14.0? That Ducati regulator may at its upper limit. I know you ordered a Silent Hectic regulator; any word on when it might come?

[jiott]

Meant to say amps running 13-14.

[AirFox]

Jim,
My amps are running about 13A on average. My normal voltage has been 13.2 to 13.3 on average since I've been flying. The Ducati should be able to handle 20A. I am well within load capability theoretically. I know what happens if the regulator fails. That is why I installed an extra Earth X battery. I have 20Ah total so at 13A I should have well over an hour to get down safely. First sign of a regulator failure I'll be ordering the Alternator from Kitfox.

I didn't need to do anything to the Advanced Flight EFIS for this EFI upgrade. I have always had EGT's and coolant temps. I am getting much more balanced EGT's since EFI.

Scott

[jiott]

OK, I just assumed your normal voltage was 14.0 same as mine. Sounds good so far, as long as the Ducati can handle a steady diet of 13 amps. Silent Hektic?

[z987k]

Is there a reason you ended up with the edge performance instead of SDS directly with the large price difference?

[AirFox]

I went with Edge over SDS primarily because the SDS would not make a manifold that would work with the Airmaster slip rings that attach to the back of the gear box. The quality of the components(fuel pumps, wire harness, vacuum, fuel manifolds) of Edge EFI system are very nice. When I called SDS the answer was "NO". When I called Edge the answer was "No Problem". The customer service and support from Edge has been great.

The EFI system has been trouble free for around 200 hours now. I think any EFI system would be better on the Rotax than the carb setup.

There is no problem running LL fuel. The Wide band O2 sensor doesn't play well with LL. LL causes the AFR reading to be about 10% high. The wide band sensor was used to fine tune the fuel map in the ECU. Once the map was set the O2 sensor is just used to monitor the AFR(Air Fuel Ratio).

Average fuel burn is around 3.5 gal/hr. The most that I have burned is just under 4 gal/hr. The lowest is 3.04 gal/hr. I have flown 7 hours on full tanks several times. Throttle response and cold start up on this system is incredible. I think the EFI system was well worth the money. It is expensive with any luck the price will drop with competition and production efficiencies.

Another nice thing about EDGE is that it is Turbo and big bore is easily added. At this point I have more than enough power and performance for my flight envelope with EFI only. Good to know though.

I saw Rocky Mountain Kitplanes has been announced as the US vendor for Edge.

Hope this info helps.

Scott

[Esser]

I have SDS. I bought mine before Edge was really a thing. I would go Edge. SDS has a really well developed product but edge has other features I like and like Scott said, you can add things on. Jason has been great with helping me with other things and I think their customer support would be better.

[aviator79]

While my engine won't have EFI right of of the box, I am buying an overhauled 914 from EDGE, and can add my praise for the level of customer service. They've sent me tons of pictures of the overhaul, and the level of communication is beyond my expectations. When I send an email, I usually hear back within a couple hours. I'm not sure Thomas sleeps.

Now you guys have me thinking about having him add EFI before the engine ships.

[Esser]

DO IT!

Is the 914 overhauled already? Did they weld the crank and upgrade the cam so you can bolt on additionsvas you go?

[aviator79]

It is already overhauled. He's hanging onto it because he's building a new engine test stand that he wants to run it on, and I don't need it right away. I don't believe it has the welded crank. It does have 912ULS cylinders and pistons, for a slight increase in displacement. The EFI would make it about as upgraded as it could be. I think you can have EDGE de-rate from the 154HP advertised for the 912STi engine, and if I did EFI, I would probably have mine de-rated. More is not always better; increased brake mean effective cylinder pressure correlates to reduced longevity and reliability. In other words, there is some risk in drifting too far from the configuration used to establish the TBO.

Also, electrical failures aren't that uncommon, and while a backup battery will probably give you enough juice to make a safe landing, in my part of the continent, it could definitely put you somewhere where making a repair would be very difficult. So I'm kind of on the fence. AirFox's review of the system sure tempts me.

[Esser]

Is it at Jason’s in Canada? Or is it in Norway? I’m going to Jason’s later today

[aviator79]

Is it at Jason’s in Canada? Or is it in Norway? I’m going to Jason’s later today

It is in Norway.

I'm really chewing on this idea a little bit. Is there a failure mode of the regulator that damages the battery? I'm curious about Scott's decision to add a backup battery to protect against a regulator failure. I guess a better question might be, how did you guys design your electrical systems to maximize your time aloft when an alternator or regulator fails, and what types of potential failures motivated those decisions?

[Esser]

I could have went more extreme on my electrical system redundancy however I feel very comfortable with how mine is set up. I have one battery and two alternators. The internal Rotax alt and a 40A external.

The only time the the 18A runs is on a shut down check to make sure it is indeed workin in case I need it next flight. I have a long winded reason for doing it this way that I can share if you’re interested(ie why I don’t check it preflight and why I don’t run with both on). Not everyone agrees with my theory. Most people just run with both alternators on.

The chance of having a dual alternator failure and 45 minutes of battery not being enough to get me to an airport seems very slim in my books.

[Ronin]

Carbs or FI? No contest, go for the FI.

[AirFox]

My backup battery is to run emergency items automatically if Either the regulator or main battery fails. I have had regulators fail. If my regulator fails with EFI then I have to have enough battery to run the ECU and Fuel pump. I installed two EarthX batteries that will keep me in the air. Josh's solution to add the external alternator also works. I keep a spare regulator in the plane in case mine fails.

Scott


It is in Norway.

I'm really chewing on this idea a little bit. Is there a failure mode of the regulator that damages the battery? I'm curious about Scott's decision to add a backup battery to protect against a regulator failure. I guess a better question might be, how did you guys design your electrical systems to maximize your time aloft when an alternator or regulator fails, and what types of potential failures motivated those decisions?

[aviator79]

Is the secondary battery just wired in parallel with your main battery, or do you have it isolated somehow? The alternator seems the preferred approach, but I think that external alternator is a $1500 bit of kit.

[AirFox]

The extra battery is isolated from the main bus on the EXPBus that I used for circuit protection. If the Regulator or main battery fails then I turn off the master and turn on the Backup Battery circuit. Only essential equipment will operate. If only the Regulator fails then I pull the Regulator breaker and can run everything off both batteries.

[Esser]

Hey Scott, did you have any issues with the exhaust system introducing fresh air while you were tuning your A/F? My friend made a good point about how a few of the exhaust components and stinger don’t do a super great job at sealing and could vary my results?

[AirFox]

No problems tuning my EFI. The AFR was really stable and predictable. The quickest way I learned to get a consistent map was to tune it at each RPM setting that the Airmaster was set at. Just set the RPM at 5400 for example then adjust the throttle through its range and adjust the fuel in the map to get the desired AFR. 14.7 for max efficiency. 12.8 for high throttle settings and at Idol. Give me a call if you want to chat about my experience. Jason at Bad Ass would be a good resource also.

Good luck Josh.

[kitfox2009]

It know this is a really old thread so I hope someone with experience will chip in (ESSER). Anyway I sold C-FOXK last fall and now with the covitt thing I am looking for a bit of a "project". I am looking at an a/c with a 912UL with an after market SDS EM4 fuel injection and a Garrett turbocharger. This was apparently installed for more power on floats.
Anyone want to speak up that has knowledge about this combination.
Cheers
Don

[fastfred]

Esser
Do you have a fuel map from the SDS set up?