Kitfox series 5 outback questions?

[KCannaday]

Hey guys first time posting here and wanted to get some opinions on a series 5 kit I located just down the road from me. How do the series 5 kits compare to the new 7 kit and would 11k be a good price for this kit? Any input is appreciated thanks!

http://barnstormers.com/tmp_images/06/a6/.watermarked_ba77ac82d38f74889bf76821f53c68ab.jpg

[n85ae]

Basically the same airplane, with relatively minor changes in the 7, the big
question would be how well constructed is it? If the build quality is good
then likely it's a good deal.

Jeff

N85AE, Series 5, IO-240B

[KCannaday]

Basically the same airplane, with relatively minor changes in the 7, the big
question would be how well constructed is it? If the build quality is good
then likely it's a good deal.

Jeff

N85AE, Series 5, IO-240B

Thanks Jeff for your response, I'm going to take look at it this weekend and see what condition it's in. I was told over the phone it had a few damaged ribs in the wings due to storage and being moved around that would have to be replaced.

[kmach]

The model 5 is the same basic airframe as the 7.
The later models 6, 7 and 7 ss have improvements that could be added to a 5 especially early in the build stage.
The 6 and newer have weldments so as to convert back and forth from trigear to taildragger ,the 5 is either TD or Trigear not convertable without welding in these attachment points.
The later models have a larger elevator and a different engine mount which moves the engine forward a few inches(912uls) . There is also a boot cowl that allows sealing the firewall to cockpit more effectively.The elevator control rod setup is different on the latest models which allows for an extended baggage compartment .
These are some of the items that come to mind, I am sure that there are more ,I am not an expert but am aware that there have been improvements since the 5. I have a 5 and like it, I do wonder what the improvements would do to it.:)

[jmodguy]

I saw that ad! Looks like all the hard work is done. The others pretty much told you what you need to know. Other than that I would mention that you check the wing spar thickness. The 1550 gw spar wall thickness is .065. The 1440 gross weight is .058.
If you want to use anything heavier than a 912 you will want the heavier spar.
Also check the wing rigging. You definitely do not want to have to re-rig the wing.
If you do decide to move forward and are wanting to go 912, I have a complete 912 FWF kit that came with my V project that I am looking to sell. :D

Regards
Jeff

[PapuaPilot]

I agree about looking at the workmanship. Look for any corrosion, especially filiform corrosion under the powder coating. If you don't know what to look for take someone who does like an A&P or someone that has built a plane.

You need to know how the wing sweep was set when they drilled the holes for the forward spar to fuselage pins. This determines which engine you will put on it. If it was built with zero sweep it is setup for the Rotax 912 engine. If it has a one degree forward sweep it is set up for heavier engines like the IO-240, O-290, O-235, etc. This would be hard to change without major rework on the spars and $.

Wing rigging means:
Dihedral - Needs to be the same angle on both wings and set per the construction manual specs.
Washout - Both wings need to have the same amount. I measured my wing's washout at 3 stations (inboard, middle/lift strut area and outboard) with a digital level and each station was within 0.1 degree to the other wing. This can be slightly adjusted with the lift strut rod ends.
Sweep - Already mentioned.

If you find serious problems with the wing rigging or poor workmanship it might be best to walk away from it unless they are willing to bargain and you are willing to deal with it.

As far as a fair price; this is what I did when I bought my Outback second hand. I looked at the Kitfox website and checked what it cost to purchase the same things new (airframe, accessories and options). I was not willing to pay more than 50% of new and only if everything was in very good shape.

I didn't see any instruments or radios with the plane you are considering, but there are holes in the instrument panel. If they are including instruments you need to decide if they are of any value to you. In my opinion 20-30 year old radios and instruments have almost zero value. It's better if you get to decide on your instruments and avionics.

Things you may want to upgrade:
If the header tank is plastic (they leak) you really should get the new aluminum one ($200+).
Tires: the 8.50x6 tires are probably very heavy and stiff for a Kitfox. I would replace them with 6.00x6 4 ply or Desser 22" tundra tires ($150 - $400).
Landing gear: There is a Grove aluminum main gear available if you don't want the bungee gear (~$1600).
Elevator: If you are installing a heavier engine you really want the larger elevator from the factory ($500+).
I saw some Poly Fiber cans in the picture. Most likely they are out of date and shouldn't be used (0 value).
I didn't see the windshield in the pictures. If there isn't one they are about $500.
All this to say there could be significant costs just to do upgrades.

If you get this airframe realize you still need the engine/accessories, prop/spinner, firewall forward package, avionics and instruments. If you buy all of this new you are looking at an additional $30,000-50,000 to finish the plane. You can buy a flying Kitfox model 5/6/7 that is in good shape for the same $40-60K.

The Outback I bought second hand included the fuselage, wings, Grove landing gear, every available option, upholstery kit, trailering kit, FWF kit for the IO-240 engine, a brand new Continental IO-240 engine with all of the accessories, prop, spinner, tools, covering materials, nav/strobe/landing lights, electrical system and the molded instrument panel. The only things not included were the radios and avionics. Things I upgraded & changed were: tires, header tank, elevator, prop, nav & landing lights (to LED), alternator and one magneto (to electronic ignition).