Potential Builder -- How Bad Is It?

[StuBob]

These questions have probably been asked dozens of times in different ways, but a search here hasn’t turned up what I’m after.

I’ve been involved in a couple of all-aluminum kits and found them frustrating. For instance, you get everything lined up perfectly per the plans. Then you drill a hole and find that one of the six pieces you just drilled has a too-small edge distance, meaning you have to order all six parts, wait a week for them to arrive, and wonder exactly how you’re going to do it differently next time.

So I’m curious about your build experience. What are the most frustrating things? What mistakes have you made and how have you remedied them? How many extra parts have you had to order?

And about fabric: Aluminum kitbuilders often fly off Phase 1 and more before getting around to painting. Since that can’t be done in a fabric airplane, does everyone have to have a paint booth? Is it reasonable to get everything covered and take it to a paint shop?

Last question: Trial building. Aluminum kits generally start with a tail, making it fairly easy to start without making a 5-figure commitment. But Kitfox starts with wings or fuselage. It appears you’re pretty committed from Day 1. Is there a way to dip a toe in the water without spending $6k? Going to someone else’s shop gives a little insight, but it doesn’t tell me what will keep me awake at night or what questions will make me pace the garage in a cloud of profanity.

Thanks, guys. And thanks for a great site!

[avidflyer]

You might consider an unfinished project. That would keep the cost down, and if your work is descent, anything you do to it should somewhat increase it's value if you decide building is not for you. Covering and painting is not real hard if you follow the manual. I've done several with polyfiber system and it's simple and easy to paint. My paint booth is plastic hung from the ceiling in one stall of the garage. Back window open, and a 20" box fan blowing out on the other end. (more or less) Jim Chuk

[WWhunter]

Stu-bob, Check your messages. I might be able to help you out.

[Dave S]

Stewart,

There are probably a lot of questions a person needs to evaluate for themselves that others can't answer, as we do not all have the same tolerance for challenges and our abilities vary....what I will say is while building an airplane, fabric or metal, is a big venture - it is certainly within the abilities of anyone who has some mechanical aptitude and is willing to learn and is motivated to get it done - the challenges will be overcome - they are just different challenges for aluminum vs tube and fabric. A major part of the deal with building is learning on the journey; and, that is not bad, that is good. None of us became pilots or builders because it was easy.

Jim Chuk's response to your question is right on regaring how to minimize your costs if a person is not real sure they want to build.

I tend to think along the lines of once a person decides they do want to build - just buy the whole kit if you can afford it at once as this will result in less total cost in the end and if you get stuck on one assembly you can work on a different one (one strategy for dealing with frustration) - if you get tired of wing building you can mess with the tail feathers if you have all the parts - or pick at the panel, etc.

Now - you wanted to know what kind of challenges? What kind of things had to be redone?

My big embarrassment was letting a spar tube get away from me on the wing jig which resulted in needing to get replacement spar tube; however, the old spar tube is now holding up my yard light in front of the house so it is not a complete loss - but I learned not to repeat that experiment!

I know of some folks who felt a little anxiety about drilling the hole in the front spar tube to match the fuselage because you only get one shot at getting it right - that needs to be done by the builder if pre-rigged wings are not purchased.

There were a couple re-dos on parts painting and a couple re-do's on fabric but neither cost much and the final result made me happier with the project.

I got used flight instruments and one had to be exchanged. Had a bit of a hassle with the compass and settled on the one Boeing uses which works perfectly.

A couple good things with tube an fabric construction - Fabric is very forgiving and can be shrunk over just about anything and can be repaired along the way. I happened to drop a phillips screwdriver point first on the belly which made the decision for me as to where the drain hole was going to go - add a grommet - good to go. Second thing - with the construction of a Kitfox - the final rigging, dihedral and washout is adjustable after building the wings - something a person cannot do on some metal wing aircraft. The Jig welding of a Kitfox Frame assure that the weldments are correct.

Now - I did dip my toe in the water a bit as I worked with an A & P on rebuilding a tube an fabric short wing Piper - the guy was more than willing to let me do operations I wanted to on the painting prep and fabric work. Maybe not the same as doing your own project bit it is still experience.

Painting? - I just did it out in the open in the yard - waited for the best conditions & went for it. Most would like a partly enclosed deal - there's cheap ways of improvising a paint booth.

Welcome ot the community!

Sincerely,

Dave S
KF 7 Trigear
912ULS Warp Drive

[jiott]

The only redo I had was messing up the inside of a spar tube trying to force the insert into it. Had to buy a new spar. Everything else went fine, just following the manual carefully. Fabric covering seemed intimidating at first, but after one day got the hang of it and it became enjoyable. I chose not to paint it myself for various reasons and yes it is quite doable to rent a U-Haul truck and transport it to and from the painter's facility. He did a beautiful job, much better than I could have done.
The only areas where you are kind of left on your own is the panel and wiring. However, even this can be learned and done by a beginner. I did it myself with a little help and it turned out great-everything worked the first time I turned it on!

[Av8r3400]

Make the pilgrimage to Oshkosh this summer. You aren't that far, in Indiana.

Be sure that you take enough time there to spend a couple days doing some of the builder's seminars. You will learn a lot of skills and knowledge that will help you make a more educated decision for yourself. Things like painting, welding, fabric covering, wiring, engines, are all things that you can learn the basics of to help you in your decisions.

[HighWing]

I have built two Model IVs and helped finish a Series V. I also spend a couple of years helping a friend build a Lancair IV. In my mind, the Kitfox manual is quite well written and very straight forward.

Attention to detail with following the manual should keep you out of trouble. With regard to your experience with drilling to close to an edge, the only time, as I recall, that would be an issue with the Kitfox build is during the wing rigging and riveting in the spar inserts - previously mentioned in other replies. I always find reassuring that with the something like 4000 plus Kitfoxes flying, I can't imagine every amateur builder - all 4000 of them drilling those rivet holes totally to specs and Kitfox has bragging rights in that they have never had an inflight structural failure.

[StuBob]

Thanks for the input, guys. I'm not sure where this will wind up.

[jmodguy]

StuBob
I'm in Carmel. Picked up a KF 5 project back in August. It was pretty far along - "almost ready to cover". Been teaching myself how to cover with the tail feathers. It is not difficult at all.
When it gets warm(er) I'll be rigging the wings. Fuse and wings are at Metro. If you want to take a look let me know.
Regards
Jeff

[rosslr]

Hi StuBob,

You certainly have chosen an interesting sub-title for you post - 'how bad is it?'. As someone who has recently finished the build and now flying, I would suggest you retitle it to "How Good Is It?' - you just might get different answers.

I found the process, the factory support and the support forum this site to be VERY good. to be more specific, the kit was very intact ( only a couple of very small items missing), the manual to be very thorough and well laid out(I only needed to get clarification on a couple of points), The combination of N-step instruction and the cross referencing to the accompanying diagrams excellent, the listing of all parts and references to the part no's a great help and the technical level needed to be only moderate. As a first time constructor, coverer, painter, engine installer, electrics and avionics installer ...... I coped ok and enjoyed nearly all of it ( except the stuff ups but that was my own fault!). The factory support is legendary and this site is full of very knowledgeable and generous.

So, how bad does it get? I don't know.
How good does it get? Extremely good. and even better when flying!

cheers

ross

[StuBob]

Jeff -- I tried to send you a PM but it appears it didn't go. Trying again. I'd really like to see your airplane.

Stuart

StuBob
I'm in Carmel. Picked up a KF 5 project back in August. It was pretty far along - "almost ready to cover". Been teaching myself how to cover with the tail feathers. It is not difficult at all.
When it gets warm(er) I'll be rigging the wings. Fuse and wings are at Metro. If you want to take a look let me know.
Regards
Jeff

[Agfoxflyer]

I agree with Ross. I built a Series 5 as a first time builder about 10 years ago. Since then I built a RV-9A & RV-10 with my brother (he paid for them, but I get to fly them!) and helped on several other aircraft projects. In my opinion the Kitfox manual and parts packaging is the best I have seen. I found the construction straight forward and when I needed help, it was easy to find., whether the factory, forums, or EAA members. My favorite part of construction was the covering process. You see the most progress toward a finished aircraft. Least favorite was paint with Aerothane. Told my brother I had painted my first & last airplane. Therefore we hired out the painting on the RV's. My paint booth for the Kitfox was one of the "carport frames" with canvas top. 10 x 20. I put two layers of 6 mil poly over the frame. Whole thing costs maybe $150. I did borrow a new 5 ton AC so I could paint in the summer Georgia heat and humidity. That sucker would pull it down in the booth from 95 deg high humidity to 65 deg low humidity in about ten minutes.

[jiott]

Well said Ross!

[skbenson]

Great fun, great support.