PDA

View Full Version : Encoders



Dave S
01-09-2016, 11:38 AM
Question for those that know more about this than I do......

When our Kitfox was built, we installed a new but very basic (read that cheap, I think) King Encoder.

The first one got alzhiemers a little less than two years ago and could not be adjusted to spec by my avionics shop. So got a replacement of the same model....at the time of installation, the Avionics person got the new one calibrated right on the money. I periodically do mode C checks with a local tower to be sure things haven't gone south ....alas, the gremlins have been active again and this week my tower reported a 600 foot deviation from my altimeter (which I am pretty sure of because I was occupying the same altitude as others in the pattern). Tower was kind enough to let me get my business done at the 'port and depart after shutting off the mode C.

Two questions

1) Are King encoders basically junk?

2) Anyone know the track record of other encoders (Trans cal for instance which has a 4 year warranty)? What have you had good luck with?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Dave S
Kitfox 7 Trigear
912ULS
St Paul, MN

Av8r_Sed
01-09-2016, 03:52 PM
Is your an Ameri-King AK-350? I've had good luck with mine even though it's 20+ years old (only flying for the past 4 years though). It takes a little while to stabilize the readings on startup because of the little oven getting up to temperature inside. No experience with others.

jrevens
01-09-2016, 08:43 PM
I've had an ACK A-30.5 in my Thorp for 25 years And it has remained spot-on after maybe one adjustment many years ago. I've gotten another ACK for the Kitfox. It is a model A-30.9 which looks identical to the 30.5, but it has the RS-232 outputs necessary to communicate with my ADS-B transceiver. When shopping at Oshkosh last year, almost all of the various avionics vendors I talked to mentioned and recommended the ACK units first, although there are several other good ones out there.

Dave S
01-10-2016, 06:18 AM
Thanks for your comments.

Paul - the exact model is an AK 350, but it was manufactured much more recently than yours. I have been on this earth long enough to know that not all production runs create products of equal quality - sometimes a vendor will change manufacturer - I have no idea if that is a possible factor on not in the case of the King unit I happen to be using.

John - you bring up an interesting point - I am dragging my feet on the ADS-B deal because of all the turmoil out there in the market at this point...I want to see both the market and FAA get real about this before I go and jeopardize my children's inheritance; but..... it sounds like a person would be wise to get a unit with the RS 232 9 pin serial port, otherwise when the time comes with an ADS-B Installation, the encoder would be worthless anyway if a person required ADS-B - correct?

Dave S
KF7 Trigear

bogmonster
01-10-2016, 07:07 AM
Dave,

Navworx has a TransMonSPE that just clips over your coax cable of your mode c transponder and decodes the stream. Costs about $200.

http://www.navworx.com/navworx_store/Experimental_Aircraft_Transceivers/

Are you coming to our pancake breakfast next Saturday?

MJH

KFfan
01-10-2016, 08:16 AM
I offer this as another take on ADS-B;

http://pilot-protection-services.aopa.org/News/2015/December/ads?CMP=EML.benefits.yodice.09JAN.16

If you don't want/need ADS-B out there are a number of programs/apps available to "see" both 1090 and UAT

Just my $.02

jrevens
01-10-2016, 12:00 PM
...

John - you bring up an interesting point - I am dragging my feet on the ADS-B deal because of all the turmoil out there in the market at this point...I want to see both the market and FAA get real about this before I go and jeopardize my children's inheritance; but..... it sounds like a person would be wise to get a unit with the RS 232 9 pin serial port, otherwise when the time comes with an ADS-B Installation, the encoder would be worthless anyway if a person required ADS-B - correct?

Dave S
KF7 Trigear

I believe it depends on what kind of other equipment you have, Dave. For instance, if you have a Dynon unit and also have their mode S transponder w/extended squitter, you can satisfy the "out" requirement with that - you don't need a UAT like the Navworx unit. Actually, that goes for any kind of set-up with mode S w/ext. squitter, along with a WASS certified GPS signal source. If you're old-fashioned like me, & have a bunch of "steam gauges" and a nice GPS (but not WASS certified), then something like the Navworx unit can make a lot of sense. The reason for the serial output signal from the encoder is to communicate with the UAT (like Navworx), as well as the transponder. The unit that reads the transponder signal by just clamping around the antenna cable is for a different task - it is there to satisfy the FAA requirement that when you set your transponder on a specific code the UAT also "sees" and sets to that code automatically. If you have any kind of a modern transponder that has a serial output, you can connect directly to the UAT and don't need a clamp-on sensor, which is not only a cheaper way to go, but better in my opinion. If you have an older transponder, the clamp-on device is an option. The UAT set-up with Mode C has some advantages & disadvantages. It requires another antenna to broadcast the "out" signal, whereas with mode S w/ ext. sq. you can do it through the existing transponder antenna, however, I think you still need another device & antenna to receive the "in" weather data, etc. With a UAT, you can do both "in" & "out" with one antenna, separate from your transponder antenna. A couple of other points - other countries mostly require (or will require) mode S w/ext. squitter. A plus for a mode C set-up is that not only is the transponder less expensive, but the ongoing testing requirements are less involved & cheaper.

If you don't have ADS-B when the time comes, it will sure eliminate your ability to fly in a lot of airspace that some of us need or want to. I wouldn't be able to get in or out of my home airport without it. It helps to make you more visible to other traffic. One of the neat things about the Navworx unit is the "stealth" mode, where when you are VFR & set at 1200 the unit broadcasts a random non-identifying code instead of the special code that identifies your airplane specifically.

Dave S
01-10-2016, 03:19 PM
Appreciate the comments - I sometimes feel like I am getting involved with voodoo when dealing with electronics:o

An update on the other equipment I have. All my flight instruments are legacy analog gauges. The Transponder is a Garmin GTX 320 which has only the db-25 connector which is currently hooked to my db-25 only connector on the King encoder.

Doess that throw any monkey wrenches into the mix regarding replacement of my encoder with a unit that does or does not have the db-9 serial connector?

I do need to comply with the ADS-B requirement - my location is right under a Class B veil & I do use control tower airports anyway. Trying to understand this stuff so I keep the expenditures as reasonable as possible but only with reliable equipment.

Sincerely,

Dave

jrevens
01-11-2016, 01:17 AM
Dave,

I believe that your transponder will probably work with the Navworx unit (ADS600-EXP), but you would have to use the TransMonSPE clamp-on device. The cost of that is definitely much less than the cost of a new transponder (like a GTX 327).

Av8r_Sed
01-11-2016, 01:51 PM
Some of the ads b products coming out still support the older parallel/ gray code encoders.

Somewhere in your decision matrix you need to consider if you're going to take advantage of the ads b input and the weather & traffic info it provides. If so, you have to be careful to pick a solution compatible with the software you use.

I use Foreflight with a Stratus 2 receiver. For me, the Navworx solution wouldn't be a good choice because it's not supported by Foreflight. I'm considering purchasing the Appareo ESG transponder since it will work with Foreflight/Stratus, my existing AK-350 altitude encoder and includes the WAAS GPS source that I don't currently have. It will replace my GTX-327 transponder which I believe will still have decent resale value.

Neither the Navworx ADS600-EXP or Appareo ESG are shipping yet, so it would be good to see them roll out and get some time on them.

jrevens
01-12-2016, 09:43 AM
Some of the ads b products coming out still support the older parallel/ gray code encoders.

Somewhere in your decision matrix you need to consider if you're going to take advantage of the ads b input and the weather & traffic info it provides. If so, you have to be careful to pick a solution compatible with the software you use.

I use Foreflight with a Stratus 2 receiver. For me, the Navworx solution wouldn't be a good choice because it's not supported by Foreflight. I'm considering purchasing the Appareo ESG transponder since it will work with Foreflight/Stratus, my existing AK-350 altitude encoder and includes the WAAS GPS source that I don't currently have. It will replace my GTX-327 transponder which I believe will still have decent resale value.

Neither the Navworx ADS600-EXP or Appareo ESG are shipping yet, so it would be good to see them roll out and get some time on them.

The Navworx ADS600-EXP units are shipping now... I received mine about a month ago. I have an iFly 740 for the Kitfox, & also run FlyQ on my iPad - I love both of those platforms/programs, so Foreflight isn't an issue for me. It'll send traffic & weather to iPad apps like Seattle Avionics FlyQ, Hilton WingX, and iFly - it has built-in WASS GPS & WiFi. It also displays on non-proprietary systems such as Advanced Flight Displays (AFS), and Grand Rapid Technologies (GRT) EFIS's. You can connect via the WiFi &/or an RS-232 Serial channel. It meets the ADS-B Final Rule Technical Amendment, dated 2/9/2015, affecting 14 CFR 91.225 (b)(1)(ii) which permits ADS-B OUT in the NAS with devices that meet the performance requirements of TSO-C154c. The price is $1299 at this time.

Av8r_Sed
01-12-2016, 11:03 AM
The Navworx ADS600-EXP units are shipping now...

I'm glad they're shipping now. One of their web pages is out of date and states they'll start shipping around June 1. It would be interesting to hear your impressions if you get a chance to try it out.

One of the features I really like about their product is the "AutoStealth(tm) Mode" that randomizes the ICAO code and sets your N number to "N0" when you're flying VFR.

Sorry for hijacking the encoder thread Dave. I'll stop now.

mr bill
01-12-2016, 02:02 PM
Over the last 30 years I have used both Trans-Cal and ACK 30s in different planes and never had a problem with either.

Dave S
01-18-2016, 07:56 AM
Appreciate the comments and info....and the data on ADS-B rrelated to this equipment.

Dave S