folding wings every flight

[awilson]

Hi guys. Is it REALLY practical to fold the wings for each flight. In other words take the plane home with me after every day that I fly and keep it in the garage. Reason I ask is i have seen a couple Kitfoxes tied down at my local airport and I wonder what the circumstances are. Guess I could ask. I live less than 2 miles from the airport.

Plus my other concern is I also want it on amphibs so how high is the tail going to be? I'm thinking 10 or 11 feet tall. If so, can I tip the nose up somehow so the tail goes under my 9 foot garage door?

Any experience or commets are appreciated.

I'm beggining to think that even if it is determined to be technically feasible,,,,,, is it practical?

[jiott]

I originally was going to fold my wings and trailer it to/from the airport to save hanger cost. I quickly determined that to not be very practical. You will have much more fun and log many more hours if you can just drive to the airport and quickly jump in your plane for maybe just a short sunset flight, etc. To me the main value of the folding wings is to be able to occasionally trailer it for repair if it is not flyable.

[airlina]

I agree with Jim , If I had to trailer my Kitfox back and forth , load and fold and unfold , my flying time would be reduced by a bunch. Once a year is enough to get it home to do my inspection. Its a nice evening, think I'll go for a sunset cruise. Bruce N199CL

[rocketman2tm]

For me, the folding wings have come in handy during the building stage. I can have one wing folded out and the other folded back and have the plane fit in the garage.

[beeryboats]

I have my own airport, but no hangar. I've kept her in the barn during her refit, but the doors are too narrow to go in or out with the wings unfolded. After owning a sailboat for years, I've learned if it's already in the water you will use it more. The same will translate to the airplane. If I kept her in some sort of shelter during the summer, it will get flown more. So I'm looking into some sort of shelter where I can store with the wings out.
Jay

[awilson]

A lot of useful insight. I definitely appreciate it. I think this is the reality of it. I very much value the easy wing folding because it's not a big decision then to bring it home to work on ,,,where all my tools are!. But every flight would become a hassle. When you want to steal an hour for yourself you don't want most of it tied up in preparation.
thanks much

[Paul Z]

The tools needed are not that extensive. I would buy a small tool bag, and get a set of metric & inch sockets set, and metric & inch open & closed end wrenches, metric & inch Allen wrenches, screw drivers, and vice grips. Harbor Freight has goo prices. Throw the bag in the plane, you need the tools as an emergency kit, in case of a problem on a trip. I also throw in 8 spark plugs, and 3 quarts of oil.

[awilson]

For me, the folding wings have come in handy during the building stage. I can have one wing folded out and the other folded back and have the plane fit in the garage.

Rocketman, I never thought of that. Excellent point.

[t j]

I trailered my plane to the airport for every flight for the first five years. It seemed like a lot of monkey motion. Then I went in partners on renting a hangar with a Sonex owner.

It was a small T hangar. Half the rent was $135 which was affordable for me. The most I had ever flown in a year was the first year...40 hours...and I figured now I would fly a lot more.

The only way to fit the planes without folding the kitfox wings was Kitfox in first then the Sonex with its tail under the kitfox wing.

I had to open the stubborn hangar doors, push the Sonex out the doors and out of the way, push the Kitfox out and out of the way, push the Sonex back inside, and close the stubborn hangar doors. Then do it all in reverse when I returned from my flight.

I took me about the same amount of time to get ready to fuel up and preflight as it did to trailer the Kitfox....more in the winter with chipping ice and shoveling snow in front of the hangar and busting my butt when I slipped on the ice.

The hangar was drafty and dirty. Birds got in...even and owl. I couldn't tinker on my Kitfox like I did when I kept it at home and had to trailer it home to do any significant maintenance on it.

My hangar mate was a college student and after two years he graduated and flew away to Texas for work. I wasn't flying any more often than I was before renting the hangar. It wasn't worth $270 per month to me to keep the hangar so I went back to trailering for every flight.



http://i.imgur.com/jcDdZiZ.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/ZyFHKKD.jpg

[Norm]

There is a lot of wisdom in TJs post. I can not say for sure what I will do as my KItFox is still in the rebuild stage. I have my hanger a half hour drive away but I could park an enclosed trailer 5 min down the road and fly from there. The question I am faced with is would I fly more with the plane close with the wings folded in a trailer or 25miles away and not have to fold the wings. One of the reasons I am rebuilding a Fox is to allow me the freedom to choose from a couple of options. As hanger rents increase I can build a trailer for less than a hanger and keeps my options open. I think if you only get to fly weekly then folding every time might make sense, but if you get to fly daily then a hanger that allows you to pull it out and go might be the best option. The thing about the KitFox is it does allow you options. Something you don't get with most other planes.
I had a hanger that I had to use a dolly system to get the plane in and out and while it worked ok it was troublesome. I still got 100hrs a year in that hanger and I think wing folding might be less trouble.

[t j]

I you can just fold the wings and push the plane straight in and out of the hangar it only takes about 5 minutes.

Unloading or Loading on a trailer and securing everything takes me about 20 minutes minimum on each end of the flight.

[Norm]

I was thinking more of useing an enclosed trailer as a hanger so I would not secure after every flight. You are right though I got the kitfox when I had to use the dolly system and thought folding one wing would be easier than the dolly. Tom looks like a nice plane. Do you have an Album

[t j]

Norm, I don't have a album. My kitfox is a tinker toy compared to what most people build today. It's a classic 4 with just a Rotax 503 engine. Very basic bare bones. The only electrical accessory is the starter.

[awilson]

I now have a more realistic view of the realitles of trailering. I guess I will never know till I do it. But for sure one thing is certain the Kitfox gives you all options. One minor thing though:

If I want to tie down for a week or so you really can't do that with the Fox. Rain probably isn't a good thing. But an all metal like Zenith Cruzer is no issue. But then theres hail!

[awilson]

Heres another idea. I live 1.4 miles away from thre airport. Nice Asphalt streets all the way. Why do I need a trailer! Can't I tow it tail first on its gear that distance? I would have to make some sort of tow bar that fits a standard trailer hitch but I am sure it can be done. Does anyone know of any structural concrens with that.

[Dusty]

Heres another idea. I live 1.4 miles away from thre airport...

This wouldn't be legal here(new Zealand)
Tyres would have to be legal for highway use and a light systym would have to be fitted ,as well as a certified draw beam.
Towing like this does make sense but cornering speed and cross wind would be an issue with the original narrow gear

[awilson]

Your right it would be illegal here too without lights. And I bet your right about tires and other standard trailer items.

[Dave Holl]

I have done it in the UK with a trailer board and makeshift mud guards
I will try and find the photos I did it before the fuslarge was covered
Dave

[Dave S]

A couple additional thoughts on trailering.

I don't know what the average competency is of drivers you share the road with in your location; however, back here....not so good....average earthlings here drive like crap. Tailgate...run red lights...switch lanes...cut people off...wear out their thumbs on their devices....wear out their middle fingers communicating...speed.....have no apparent understanding of the laws of physics or the traffic laws. I guess some of them drink and blow dope to get in the mood for driving. We can do a flawless job of driving & trailering and there are people out there we share the road with who don't give a rat's elbow. IMHO....there is a risk in trailering....it's not zero.

A good thing to check & be sure of. Is the aircraft insured when transported in a trailer on the road?. It would have to be either your aircraft insurer; or, your auto insurer. I am pretty sure there are exclusions on some policies. Some policies have riders that must be in place to have coverage for situations like this. If there is a wreck and your airplane is excluded because of language in your policy......that's a lot of value to kiss goodby if it gets crashed on the road.

I know people vary in their risk tolerance and risk exposure, however, might be good to know this and make an educated decision rather than not know and try to figure out what to do if there is an OOPS!

Sincerely,

Dave S

[wannafly]

Interesting discussion. I think we would all agree if we could have a reasonable hanger available we would take it. I don't so I trailer it every flight. Airstrip is a mile down the road and very nice. But no hanger and I'm not about to leave it out side. Still getting 60 hours a year in. I don't find it that hard to fold wings for the privilage to fly a Kitfox:D

[Jerrytex]

I second "tj's" thoughts. I built a tail stand so I did't have to drain the gas, and I folded the wings every flight. I had a friend that scooted his plane over a little in his hangar and I pushed mine next to it. Worked perfect. Trailering it every flight was and is huge PITA! I'd sell before I did that again.

Also, if you can't find a hangar buddy, you might want to look/ask around at the airport. At my airport, the city has a maintenance hangar. They rent a back corner out to a guy with a trike. A folded Kitfox would take up about the same space. You might be able to find an area that is impractical for a regular plane but a folded Kitfox would squeeze in just fine.

[jiott]

Just curious; Of those who fold the wings for every flight, how many of you take-off/put-on the little front wing root fairings each time? Or do you just leave them off all the time?

[Jch]

FWIW, I have folded and unfolded my wings for the past year to fit it in the hangar with another plane. Is it a minor hassle? Maybe. Does it make me smile to think I am hangaring it for free. You bet! :):)

[t j]

No need to take the front spar wing root fairing off to fold the wings. They stay on.

[awilson]

Im not too worried about this issue in 1.4 miles. BUT I would definitely want to be insured. So great point! I will definitely check this out. I don't want to fall through the cracks of insurance!


A couple additional thoughts on trailering.

I don't know what the average competency is of drivers you share the road with in your location; however, back here....not so good.....

[Dusty]

Having an airplane airborne in less than an hour of deciding to fly(35 min for me) in the early phase of flying can't be underestimated!
Those half hour nonsense flights after work will probably rate as some of the most enjoyable flying to be had.
The spar cuffs on my 3 come off and are not a problem
The 4 is part of the leading edge

[t j]

The fairing can stay on when folding the wings.

[awilson]

The fairing can stay on when folding the wings.

Are the doublers inside the spar made of steel? And how about the points on the fuselage? Because to me if they are aluminum then those holes will get oversized and oval fast and I would worry, worry wart that I am.

[t j]

Attach lugs are same as the rest of the fuselage...4130 Chromoly Steel. The doublers are Zinc coated steel. The spars are 6061-T6 Aluminum. Probably folded these wings hundreds of times. Pins are still snug.

I think the later models have 4 doublers on each spar. Inside and outside the spars both top and bottom.

[jiott]

That is correct, the model 7 has 4 steel doublers on each spar.

[HighWing]

One more possibility. Chase has talked about this and realize it is not practical for most, but as costs of hangar rental space is brought up, it sure puts a great spin on my house payment.

When building my first Model IV, the garage was going to be my hangar. I spent a lot of effort trying to get the folded length of the airplane to fit in the available space. Then on a trip back from a Scout camp where we picked up our son, we stopped along the way to see the place where I used to have my Cessna 170-B serviced. My wife and son saw a home for sale there, loved it and the rest is history. Since my work was almost exactly between old home and new home - about an hour commute - it was doable. We moved and the wingtip of my new Model IV is about 15 ft. from my right elbow as I type this. Since we moved in, two Friends with Model IVs have also moved in and a third lives nearby but rents an otherwise unused hangar attached to a home down the street.

[Paul Z]

Too bad the Sub Division is in California, or I would consider it.

[HighWing]

Ha! Had to laugh! I've lived here since 1946 and watched it become what it is - not fun watching. My only problem is that given our elevation above the winter fog, below the snow line and winds seldom above 10 kts. and given most days are fly days unless a front is passing through along with great neighbors we haven't figured where to go, though we talk about it all the time. I have five kids - FL, KS, WY, Ga and AZ. All nice places but the extremes there give us serious pause. Think wind - sometimes the really extreme kind, humidity, and extreme temps. Right now it's 98°, 45% humidity and wind 4 mph. It sort of makes this place seem pretty good despite being Cantaffordya.

[Paul Z]

Cantaffordya.

Never heard it called that but, it definitely sums up my problem with living there! When I traveled out there for work, I was always amazed at the $$$$ everything cost. Hell I could treat my wife an I to a very nice dinner for the cost of eating lunch in LA. I was sure glad I was on business expense when I went.

Hell I looked at the vacant lot around the corner from your House. They want more for it than I paid for my house.

[HighWing]

Hell I looked at the vacant lot around the corner from your House. They want more for it than I paid for my house.

I hope you were looking at the combined lot - a little over an acre on the end of Fairway. Most of the lots for sale have been on the marked for years. it makes me wonder what the sellers are thinking. There is one lot, however listed at $136,000. Considering the two higher figures posted as hangar rent, the cost per month is estimated at slightly more than the $500 per month hangar rental. This is primarily the reason I posted my experience. If you are paying a fairly high hangar rent, it effectively reduces the price of the home proportionately. Consider a hangar 35ft. X 45ft. with 14ft. Ceiling and a 20ft. X 12ft. door for say $500 a month or $1000 a month. One of my Kitfox buddies keeps his Kitfox - wings extended - and his Bonanza in his hangar. (Pic Below) Some of the homes, surprisingly have no hangars, but imagine pulling your airplane out of the garage, unfolding the wings and then taxiing to the runway on the Street/Taxiways as they are called.

This is all just food for thought, but does give one major reason why we're still in Cantaffordya..

[Esser]

How much roughly is a house with a hangar on the airport? How much is the monthly fee? If you don't mind me asking

[HighWing]

There is one house listed currently. 3 bdr. 3 Bath 2380 sq. ft. with hangar no garage, but carport. No size given on the hangar. Asking $480,000.

A note on the airpark. Cameron Park came into being during the late 60s. The airport and a golf course were the attractions. back then, it was pretty much out in the country and became a natural rest stop for Bay Area weekenders on their way to Lake Tahoe. I would guess that most early homes were built as weekend getaways. Some of he older homes are fairly small and often uniquely designed. Later as the area grew up, larger year around residences were built. Today we have two major super markets, two major pharmacies a couple of hardware stores and numerous restaurants. My home and the other shown were both built about 1995 - same builder. We have about 90 homes with runway access. HOA/airport access fees are $300 a year.

[Esser]

Wow, that is extremely reasonable. I paid that for my 1300sq/ft house sans airport. But I live in a fairly expensive housing market. Maybe I'll retire to California haha.

[Paul Z]

I was looking at the double lot. $480,00 isn't bad, and only $300 a year for homeowners is great. The homeowners at my brothers place is $158 per month. I'm surprised the houses are that reasonable. My vision of California cost is LA. A friend of mine sold her 1200 square foot condo for $600,000 a few years back. I would have guessed closer to $750,000 on the airpark.

[rosslr]

Sounds like the thought of palm trees are beckoning Josh ...."come to me, come to me, take off your freezer suite and let the sun make vitamin D ...."

[neville]

I have been trailering my SS7 tri-gear the 3 miles to the airport for two years now and find it "no issue". It takes about 1hr for each evolution. The biggest problem is all the interested people who want more information about the plane. That can add up to 2 hours extra at the airport. See the sticky about trailering a SS7 on the forum home page. True, the longest operation is fueling and defueling the aircraft. The load/unload/wing unfold/fold takes about 20 min each way. Big plus is keeping the plane at home makes wife happy as I am home instead of at airport every day.