It's Official My Model IV will have a 912

[Norm]

It's official my Model IV will have a 912. I picked up an older 912 and after 10 years of playing around with 582's and learning how to keep them running and avoid cold seizures and motor outs, I get to learn a whole new way of running motors and staying in the air. I did not get an exhaust or motor mount so I have lots of work to do. I have been searching the photo albums looking for mounting techniques. Please feel free to add any photos on firewall forwards for the 912.

[Jono]

I'll take some photos this weekend (if nobody else chimes in sooner)
1993 Model IV with a 912ULS Round Cowl

[Norm]

Thanks that would be great. The more photo's the better. I am thinking of building a bed mount for simplicity but time will tell. I am still in the recover stage. It should have been done months ago but I keep changing things and adding moifications to make it better???? Then family commitments get in the way. And I know I just added a whole bunch of work going to the 912 as I had the complete firewall forward in a 582 including mount etc. I guess I can lay a little blame on DesertFox for making me want the 912 bad enough to go to the extra cost and work. Steve took me for a ride in his Model IV with the 912ULS and I am still in awe. No wonder the KitFox is the worlds most popular kitplane.
I have a really early model 912 with the ignition in a silver box that mounts on the firewall. If anyone has any information on this style ignition including wiring diagrams I would sure appreciate the help. I have found the two yellow that go to the rectifier and there are two whites that I suspect go to the mag to ground switch but the previous owner says the white go to the tach. Any thoughts on this.

[Jono]

I have a really early model 912 with the ignition in a silver box that mounts on the firewall. If anyone has any information on this style ignition including wiring diagrams I would sure appreciate the help.
I'll see what I can dig up.... I think I've got a similar era 912.


I have found the two yellow that go to the rectifier and there are two whites that I suspect go to the mag to ground switch but the previous owner says the white go to the tach. Any thoughts on this.
Not 100% sure... hopefully my pictures will make it a little clearer.

I'd also suggest that you go for the "improved mount" (with the welded semicircular gusset) We didn't have the gusset and the mount cracked at about 250hrs.. (quite common apparently) All fixed now
Example of the engine mount:
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Photo From: http://kitfoxaircraft.com/support/service_bulletins/sb54.htm
Jono

[Av8r3400]

That is the first generation ignition system for the 912. It is no longer supported by Rotax or anyone else.

I would highly suggest that you call LEAF (http://leadingedge-airfoils.com/techhelp.htm), and speak to Brett at extension 154, and discuss your options on how to make this a flying engine again.

[Planesmaker]

If the old ignition system is working, I don't see a need to change it. I have had a skyfox with over 3000 hrs on the old ignition system. Still going strong. Tom

[Norm]

Thank you for the reply about if it ain't broke don't fix it. That is pretty much the way I feel. Anybody I talk to about the older ignition system is that it seems to be very solid. I was talking to another teamKitFox member and he mentioned that the last he heard his old plane had 1850hrs trouble fee. I am a little confused about the wiring on the old ignition system as I don't know where the mag ground wires are. I see two lugs on the aluminum box and I am thinking that these to ground will shut the ignition off. Of course I am a long way from starting the motor but I do not want to destroy anything without first finding out how this is wired. Thanks for any help you might be able to provide.
Norm

[Planesmaker]

Yes the 2 posts are for the ignition ground wires. The box is bulky but it all seems to work well. Regards Tom

[Norm]

Yes the 2 posts are for the ignition ground wires. The box is bulky but it all seems to work well. Regards Tom

Thanks Tom

[Jono]

G'day Mate,
As promised some photos of my 1993 era Rotax install.

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9163

9164

9165

9166

9167

9168

I'll be near the plane for the next 2 days so if you have any special request photos just ask :-)
Jono

[Norm]

These photos are great thanks so much for the images. They are much better than I could have taken. If you can get some of the mount at the back it could be helpful but I know they are tough to get because there is so much in the way in back. I noticed you are using an older KF style filler. Where did the spider tank come from. Did you make that yourself. Curious. Thanks again for the photos. They are helpful.
Norm

[Jono]

If you can get some of the mount at the back it could be helpful but I know they are tough to get
Not quite what you're after but best I could do sorry :(
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(Above - Top down view of the engine rubber isolator mounts)

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(Above - Looking up at the bottom of the engine, note the aluminium shields around the isolator mounts to stop heat damage from the exhaust)

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(Above - Oil cooler mount, I believe the location of this is optional, this one is inside the round cowling)

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(Above - Another top down view)

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(Above - Top down view of rubber mounts)

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(Above - Looking up at bottom of engine and the hangar roof :D)


I noticed you are using an older KF style filler.
Not quite sure which part you're refering to but most likely it did come with the kit (Dad was the builder)

Where did the spider tank come from. Did you make that yourself.
Dad wouldn't have made it, so most likely came with the engine.

Thanks again for the photos. They are helpful.
Norm
Not a problem, too happy to help, I remember being a "young tacker" watching Dad send fax to SkyStar and wait hours for a response due to the time difference (U.S.A vs Australia).. if only the internet had evolved earlier :)

[Norm]

All great pictures. Thanks for the help. Your right about the net. Sure helps a lot with information exchange.
Thanks again
Norm

[KFfan]

Not a problem, too happy to help, I remember being a "young tacker" watching Dad send fax to SkyStar and wait hours for a response due to the time difference (U.S.A vs Australia).. if only the internet had evolved earlier :)

Al Gore wasn't available....:eek:

[Norm]

Jono
I was wondering if I could bother you to post a picture of the water collection on top of the motor. Because one of you pictures show an older style filler tube I suspect your water collection is home fabricated. Since I may have to make one for my Model IV 912 Pictures would be helpful. I remember you are not always at your hanger and there is no hurry so next time you are out if you could get some shots that would be great.
Thanks Norm

[Jono]

Sure, I wont be back until the 29th August, but will certainly take some pics for you. I did ask dad about the water collection part and he said it came with the kit. So perhaps Skystar made them?

[Norm]

Thanks That would be great. I don't need them in a hurry as I am still some time away from getting the motor going.
Thanks again
Norm

[Norm]

Hey Jono
My plane is about ready to fly but I have an issue with the ignition system. One mag drop is radical. Unfortunatly I have the older silver box similar to the one you have on your plane and I can not find any information on the net.. I believe my plugs are in the wrong order compared to what is written on the box. I was hoping you might have some documentation or possibly could check the firing order of the plugs as they come out of your box.
Thanks for checking for me.
Norm

[Planesmaker]

hi Norm
it could be just plug leads in correctly placed or just leads breaking down. had the same thing with a skyfox here with bad mag drop on one ignition turned out to be the leads arcing out, they were original. inside that metal box is........ 2 cdi's and 4 coils just like any other 912 oh and a mess of wires! take note where each wire goes and to what coil. to check the leads you could start it in the dark with cowls removed and see any spark leaking, careful keep clear of prop please. i am overseas at tbe moment and aircraft has been sold but my notes may still be there( someone else used them, hope they kept them) I will be back in october. Tom

[rosslr]

yes, I missed you at Tumut!

r

[Norm]

Thank you Tom. I agree it could be leads or the boots also seem to be an issue with 912s. The reason I am looking for firing order is because there are numbers written on the box in felt pen and they don't correspond with what is stamped on the box. Also there are two different sets of numbers stamped on the box. The plug wires do not seem to match any of the writing or stamped numbers. I may change the order but will do it after marking the current location of all the leads. I think the worse that can happen is a rough run or no run. I may also change out all the leads which brings up another question. I know on the 582 only a set of wire leads (not carbon) should be used. Is there a specific type wire that should be used on the 912. Thanks for any insight.
BTW When we say we are overseas we usually mean we are in Europe. When you say overseas in Australia, where are you.
Just Curious

[Planesmaker]

Hi Norm
i bought 10 m of wire lead from ebay be careful there are several types, i will try and find a link for you. i bought new caps too but old caps were quite sad.
I am in Russia atm.
Tom

[Planesmaker]

http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/Rotax-912-914-582-Spark-Plug-Ignition-Wire-Ultralight-Engine-Aircraft-Sparkplug-/331787072749?nav=SEARCH

[Planesmaker]

yes, I missed you at Tumut!

r

hi Ross will you be going to ozkosh? we are hoping to go for a day. Tom

[Av8r3400]

912 uses a copper core wire. I thought 6mm but could be wrong. The local auto parts stores all had it in bulk. There is a second insulating sheath over the wires that I could only find from Rotax.

The plug boots are available online for a fraction of what Rotax wants.

Your engine with the old style ignition may be different, YMMV.

[rosslr]

tom, weather dependant, yes.

r

[Norm]

Thank you all for the replys. SUCCESS It turns out the number 1 and number 3 Cyl plugs were reversed. With some logical troubleshooting and the help of KitFoxJim the plane now runs like a charm and Flys too. Jim did the first circuit in her and then I got a chance to try it. I have to go back to pilot school as it is quite a bit different than what I have been flying. What a great feeling. After 3years I got her in the air. Oh and safely back on the ground.
Thanks all for the help.
Norm

[DesertFox4]

Big congrats Norm!! Glad you got the wires sorted out. Hope to hear tails of exciting Kitfox flights next we meet in the desert southwest.

[Norm]

WOW What an amazing airplane. I took SuperFox for a ride and I am really impressed with the whole package. The 912 is super smooth with a nice low rumble from the exhaust. Still early testing but I am seeing easy speeds of 80 to 85mph. I was concerned about selling my old plane because after 7 years of flying her I thought what if I don't like the Fox. Concerns are at rest as the SuperFox is really Super. Thanks to all who have helped me here with motivation and guidance. A special thank you to KitFoxJim who really kept me going when it seemed like I was ready to quit.
Got go and see if I can get this smile off my face.
Norm

[kitfoxjim]

Norm's first Landing can be seen here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z2iIiCVpWQ

We now have one HAPPY guy!

[DesertFox4]

Jim, would love to watch the video but Youtube marked it as "Private".
No can play.

Sounds like a keeper Norm. Have fun!

Great to have good help like KitfoxJim for motivation, assistance and guidance.
Another experienced pair of eyes to look over your project is always a blessing.
Way to go Jim.:)

[Norm]

Hi Steve
You can try this link
https://youtu.be/jk7xZwCnqTs

I am not sure why it worked for some and not for others. It was not working for me and then it started to work.

[Norm]

I also flew over to my friends farm strip this morning and he shot this video of the SuperFox checking out the runway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w9sHCCuveE&feature=youtu.be

Norm

[Esser]

Great to see. Congrats Norm.

[DesertFox4]

All links working. Thanks. Great to see you in the air and in a Kitfox Norm.:)
Good result of a lot of dedicated effort. Congrats again.