build time for a SS7

[big jim]

Hi guys, I have seen some info on here about guys going over 2000 hours to build there planes and I was just wondering is the factory being deceptive in there 1000 hours to build or can a well versed fabricator with a well equipped shop do it in a 1000 hours. I am very interested in building a 7 but if it takes over 2000 it might force me to reconsider. Thanks for your help. Big Jim

[jiott]

My SS7 took about 2300 hours, but I am a first time builder with a shop kind of crowded and not super well equipped; also by nature I am slow and careful. I did NOT get the quick build wings or the prefab kit. I estimate the QB wings would save about 500 hours.

[Paul Z]

Go Read the Build Post from Oz build SS7, Ross is an Australian Builder. His post will give you a very good idea of what is involved.

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=5029

[DesertFox4]

Jim, I haven't finished my 7SS yet but my model 4 took around 1,200 hours to complete but I had many mods from stock that added time to the build. I did it in 14 months of pretty steady effort. I don't think the model 7 SS would be much more if you kept your Kitfox simple. Lots of high timers are building the fanciest versions with all glass panels, auto pilots and the like.
Advertising a universal build time for all situations is tricky. Just know that it varies for all kit manufacturers as they control nothing about your shop, it's equipment set up and your skill level. I think a needle, ball and airspeed model 7SS with a know engine like the Rotax is doable.

Now with that said, if you're going to invest your valuable time and financial resources in a kit built aircraft, don't you want the best one available? And where else are you going to get all this free support from all these good folks to help keep you on your time table and budget? :) Order your Kitfox 7 SS and never look back. You'll never regret it when you see the quality of the kit and the build manual.

[jiott]

Yes mine was not a "simple" build. I put in a glass panel and nearly all the optional items except QB wings and auto-pilot. I counted all my time in the shop even if it was cleanup or just thinking thru a project. Now that I have built one, I think I could do the same kit again in 1200-1500 hours, using the QB items and my naturally plodding pace. I totally agree that the choice of a fine aircraft, excellent kit and support far outweighs build time differences of a couple hundred hours or so. When you are done and enjoying it you don't even think of the time spent working on it. It all becomes a proud memory of an enjoyable time.

[jiott]

I have two friends, Airfox and Floog, who built SS7's similarly equipped to mine in well under 2000 hours. Both of them first time builders using the QB options. Maybe they will chime in.

[rosslr]

Seeing that Paul has dobbed me in I had better respond!

Our kit arrived Oct '13. We are about to fit the engine and avionics and while I am not working to a time line, I imagine it will be flying before the 2 year mark arrives. For info, I still work occasionally and travel a fair bit so I was not working on it every day, all day. Additionally, we are first time builders and spent a lot of time reading and thinking before undertaking a job. The kit is comprehensive and the manual very good. The icing on the cake is this forum where the guys are really knowledgeable, generous and supportive. If was doing it full time, and knew what I wanted in terms of engine and avionics, I think it is very achievable in 12-13 months.

Apart from that it has/is a great experience and now looking forward to flying it!

cheers

r

[Dave S]

I'd second Jiott's comments about build time on the wings. FWIW - the slow build wings are a major contributor to time on task. Another builder up my way said the wings are the components that take the most time to build. I believe if a person can finance it, getting the quick build wings can cut down time-on-task quite bit.

In our case, the S7 took 1200 hrs & 3 years, first time builder, slow build wings, work and life going on at the same time and majorly complicated by getting seriously burned in the skystar bankrupcy. Standard gauges - no exotic electronics. Small unheated garage & basement used for construction room.

Dave S
KF 7 Trigear
912ULS Warp Drive
St Paul, MN

[Paul Z]

It's not only about build time. I'd make one recommendation go look at a Kitfox or any other plane you might be interested in, up close and throughly. Look at the Quality of the Welds on the Fuselage, the Jigs/Fixtures used to Weld up the Fuselage, the Jigs/Fixtures to build the Fast Build Wings, and the tooling use to make the Wing Ribs etc. I was looking at one of the Kitfox Competitors Aircraft, I just recently got my LSRM-A certification, and I was thinking of building a Kit because I really like the performance of the particular model. I got digging on their Web Site, and there are a couple of photos of the Tail Feathers, the inside of the fuselage that told me everything I needed to know about the particular aircraft. Looking at the Weld Quality I would be extremely hesitant to build a Kit that had welds that were worse than my welding capabilities. I would be concerned with Weld Penetration. I would also be concerned with spending 1500 to 2000 working on this kit. Those look like some Crappy Welds! Kitfox has a very good Welder working for them and that is more important than the time to build!

[jiott]

Amen, I second Paul's comments. Being an engineer I was very impressed with my visit to the Kitfox factory and seeing the extensive fixturing they use to keep everything square and straight. I think it is the main reason the airplane flies so well on the maiden flight. Just a small amount of tweaking the wing rigging for a slightly heavy left wing is all that is necessary, and maybe a little rudder trim. Actually the factory could probably eliminate almost all rigging tweaking by telling you to add a turn or so (on the strut rod ends) of wing twist on initial assembly. A perfectly built straight airplane will always want to turn left a little due to engine torque and P-factor.

[Dick B in KY]

My daily build log shows 2369.0 hrs total build time up to the day of airworthiness inspection and certificate issue. Took my time building, no quick build anything, ordered parts as they were needed and could be afforded. Worked on something every day, maybe not long hours , but did something to keep project going. By the way, I'm an A&P so I know it's built right.

Dick B

[SkyPirate]

where is that dang LIKE Button when ya need it :D

[SkyPirate]

and they say old dawgs cant learn new tricks :) thanks Paul I saved it ")

[Esser]

I second Paul's comment about quality of the kit. I have been helping some friends with their planes and Kitfox has a very high quality to their kits compared to many but not all others.

I haven't kept track of my hours. Partly because in Canada we don't have to keep a meticulous log and partly because I didn't want to pace myself against a number as a first time builder. If I had more free time, it would have ben flying 2 years ago....

[PapuaPilot]

So far I have 935 hours building my KF 5. I only am counting the time that I am actually working to build the plane; not time studying, reading online or ordering stuff. I bought the plane 18 months ago from the original owner. He had done 25-30% of the build but I redid several things that would account for about half of his time. I would estimate 1100 hours of my time by the time I finish. It would probably be 1250-1300 hours if I built it from scratch with QB wings.

As mentioned; your experience, workshop and tools available can make a big difference in the build time. I have been an A&P for 32 years and just got my IA rating. I have the availability of a paint booth, special tools, machine shop, powder coating machine, etc. where I currently work. All of these things have made the project go quicker than average.

I'm getting close to the end and can almost taste it. :D

[AirFox]

One year four months from Kitfox delivery to first flight. I have a full time job and a family at home. I build my kit in my two car garage. The build would have been done in a year but I didn't leave enough lead time for the FWF Kit, Engine, and Prop. I did get the quick build wings and Pre-fab kit. I would recommend both options. I was a first time builder and had a fun time building my Kitfox. The factory help is just incredible. Like many of the other builders on this forum I consider John and Deb McBean from Kitfox friends now. I did a build thread if your interested.

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=4013

I've been flying my Kitfox SS for just over a year now and would make the same kit choice if I was going to do it again.

Good luck on your choice.

Scott

[big jim]

Thanks for all the responses, I own a metal fabrication business and we have all types of fab and machine equipment and I have plenty of room to work and a lot of experience building cars and motorcycles so I am hoping I can do this in a 1000 to 1200 hour range.

[mr bill]

For me, scheduling or setting deadlines would take a lot of fun out of the build. I had enough of that during my career (now retired).

[jrevens]

I'm with you, mr bill. I really enjoy building things... but now I really want to get this thing flying. Been dreaming about it too long. I'm SLOOOW! It doesn't help that I have another airplane to fly. Now I'm going to have to figure out where I'm gonna' keep 2 airplanes! I know... poor me! :rolleyes:

[Meyertheflyer]

It took me 2 years and 3 months with 1336 hours of documented build time as a first time builder. But, in that time I built quality memories, a wealth of knowledge, and most importantly, I built friendships within my EAA chapter and the Kitfox community that will last me a lifetime. I'm now researching another build.

[Paul Z]

You should consider what time it takes for a person to build a scratch built aircraft. I started a P.O.S. (Piece of S**t) composite aircraft, it took well over 3000 hours, I was getting pretty close to completion and developed a sensitivity to the Epoxy. Considering I wore glove 99% of the time I was surprised I developed a sensativity. Not only am I sensitive to Epoxy, I am also now sensitive to Latex Gloves. I would never recommend building from scratch, and not if you have a life.

[jrevens]

You should consider what time it takes for a person to build a scratch built aircraft...

I know all about that, Paul. My son was 6 months old when I started to build my Thorp in 1975, from 236 blue line drawings & raw metal. He was almost 16 when I completed & test-flew it in 1990. Luckily, I didn't develop an allergy to aluminum. ;)