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jonr
08-05-2008, 05:36 PM
Kitfox sounds great - has foldable wings and can have floats. But I don't have time to build one.

If I understand the maintenance rules, it would be best if I could get an ELSA kit that is mostly built or a SLSA (completely built LSA).

But I don't see Kitfox on the lists of SLSA aircraft. Are there plans for this?

RandyL
08-06-2008, 06:21 AM
I'll let someone from Kitfox answer the question as to whether they plan to do an SLSA in the future or not, but if you buy a flying Kitfox, which will almost certainly be an E-AB (Experimental - Amatuer Built) then you can do all the maintenance yourself. The ONLY thing you can't do is your annual Condition Inspection, but if you know an A&P with IA you can probably do most of it and pay them to sign it off.

If you buy an ELSA kit or SLSA bird you can also do the maintenance but only after taking and passing the 16 hour course.

Since you won't be building yourself (you sure?) the big decision you'll need to make is whether to buy an EAB or SLSA with the big factor being the medical requirement for the two different sets of pilot priveledges... Sport Pilot vs. Private Pilot.

84KF
08-06-2008, 08:16 AM
Just a few notes...

“The ONLY thing you can't do is your annual Condition Inspection, but if you know an A&P with IA you can probably do most of it and pay them to sign it off.”

Inspection Authorization is not required when peforming a condition report on an experimental amatuer- built aircraft. The mechanic needs only both airframe and powerplant ratings.

Despite popular belief, the A&P mechanic is not authorized to “supervise” any type of inspection. There is no provision in the FAR's for the “delegation of authority” when performing FAA required inspections.

If the mechanic is putting his\her name and number in the aircraft records as performing a required inspection they are certifying that the inspection was personally performed. (not supervised)

It is correct to say that the non-builder\owner may repair or service the aircraft as necessary to maintain a “condition for safe operation” but the FAA required condition report inspection, (in accordance with FAR 43, Appendix D) must be “performed” by the A&P. To what extent the A&P allows the owner to assist is a product of the devloped working relationship, but “inspections” are totally different from “maintenance” in the eyes of the FAA.

On a higher level, it is not ok for an A&P with I.A. (Inspection Authorization) to “sign off” inspections done by others, such as signing off a 100 Hr. Inspection done by an A&P as an Annual Inspection.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=f93e8a6d8629af90ea92e91210c010e1&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.5.7.5&idno=14

jonr
08-06-2008, 08:30 AM
the big decision you'll need to make is whether to buy an EAB or SLSA with the big factor being the medical requirement for the two different sets of pilot priveledges... Sport Pilot vs. Private Pilot.


I believe that this is a separate issue. If the plane meets the LS criteria, then it can be flown by a sport pilot. Doesn't matter if it is EAB, S-LSA or E-LSA.

I hope Kitfox pursues a S-LSA rating for their plane and sells some kits that are more completed. Ie, an 90% done ELSA plane would be great for me and so would doing my own annuals. Resale price should be better too.

I also understand that once your E-LSA plane is certified, you can make modifications as you see fit. This also appeals to me.

Kyle
08-06-2008, 09:13 AM
Hey Guys,

I don't think there are any ELSA kits on the market. The ELSA certification window of opportunity was established by the FAA for the planes that were flying that didn't meet the guidelines for an ultralight but did meet the guidelines for the LSA (Light Sport Aircraft). Those were for the most part the "fat ultralights" (two place) and others that didn't meet the ultralight weight restrictions. As of Jan. 31, 2008 the window of opportunity to certify a ELSA closed. No more ELSA's will be certified except those that had already started the registration process prior to Jan. 31, 2008 with the FAA, then and only then will the FAA consider granting an extension of that date.
Most of the homebuilt kits constructed in the future will be certified as Experimental Amatuer Built (E-AB). There are a couple of other categories but most will be E-AB. A good number of the homebuilt kits that are certified as E-AB will qualify for the Sport Pilot Category. You have to remember we are talking about two different things, the category a airplane is certified in (ie: ELSA, E-AB, SLSA, etc) and the category a pilot flies in (ie: Recreational Pilot, Sport Pilot, Private Pilot, Commercial Pilot etc.) There are Kitfoxes out there that were certified as ELSA during that window of oportunity. Those that did that and are the builder of record can do the maintenance and sign off on the annual condition inspecton provided they take the 16 hr. repairman course. If you buy a ELSA or E-AB and you are not the builder of record then you can do most of the maintenance but have to have a A & P and/or a IA to sign off on the annual inspection. You are limited even more on (I'm a little cloudy on this) how much maintenance you can do on a SLSA airplane (that's a airplane that qualifies for the Sport Pilot category but was manufactured, completely assembled at the factory and the factory is the builder of record).
Sorry I didn't mean to write a book but I think everyone needs to understand the two different issues (the categories for certification and the categories we fly in) and use the correct terminology when we talk or write about it.
Thanks,

jonr
08-07-2008, 10:06 PM
There are E-LSA kits with many more coming. For example,
Van's RV12A.

Or you can buy one of the many S-LSA planes available and register it as E-LSA.

In either case, you (the owner), can then do maintenance and annuals with a 16 hour course.

IMO, Kitfox needs to produce a E-LSA to stay in the market. A wider range of build options and lower cost maintenance after resale.

RandyL
08-08-2008, 08:38 AM
No question there are more E-LSA kits coming, but what I don't see is any advantage to that over E-AB. With an E-LSA kit you are required to build it exactly as the manufacturer specifies right down to every single electrical switch and what is in the panel. With an E-AB kit you are free to make your own choices and customize any way you like. Granted, an E-LSA kit will likely be more complete and thus be a shorter build, especially with the revised 51% rule parameters likely. I'm building my Super Sport as an E-AB (not that there is a choice at present) for these reasons.

jonr
08-09-2008, 10:10 AM
My understanding is that after an E-LSA is registered, you can make changes as you see fit. This needs confirmation.

Don't forget about better resale too - when you go to sell an E-AB plane, the buyer will be looking at more expensive annuals and perhaps even problems finding an AP to do it. Plus the buyer has a little more assurance that the plane was built to standard (ie, safe) specs with an E-LSA . So I expect some premium in the resale prices for the same plane that is E-LSA.

On the other hand, LSA planes may be slower and carry less weight. Hopefully this aspect would be balanced off by the fact that there are more pilots that can fly a LSA (ie, increased demand).

I'm looking forward to more fuel efficient, safe planes (simple, low stall) that are low cost to maintain (owner annuals) and store (trailerable).

jdmcbean
08-17-2008, 10:14 AM
Sorry for the delay in responding.

Are we (Kitfox Aircraft) going to build an SLSA ? ABSOLUTELY !!

As some of you already know the Kitfox was the poster child for the Light Sport Aircraft. The Kitfox SLSA comforming proto-type in being assembled now. The testing is complete and now the dreaded paperwork to go with it is being completed.

Our focus will be on the E-AB and SLSA.

Paul Z
04-06-2011, 05:13 PM
I figured this would be a good thread to post this on.

Blue Ridge Community College in Virginia is offering a LSRM Certification.

"Beginning this summer BRCC will offer a program for Light Sport Aircraft Repairman with a Maintenance Rating.
We are teaming up with Bridgewater College who will provide dorm rooms at an affordable rate for the duration of the class. Contact Fred Dyen at 540.453.2306 or 314.753.1356 (cell) for more information."

Out of State Tuition is aproximately $1550 for all of the classes. Lockwood will be offering a Rotax Maintenance and Repair Class $500 each??" the week before. The Dorm Rooms are $30 per day. Having checked around: Tuition, Dorm Room, Rental Car, and Food will cost less than it would cost at some of the other places that Train you to be a LSRM.

The training dates are in June.

For more information:
information.http://community.brcc.edu/aviation/index.php/light-sport/