Flying Private Pilot w/o Medical

[jiott]

A few of us have been having a discussion, but don't know any real answers. Here's the question: If you have a Private ticket but have voluntarily dropped the 3rd class medical and are flying with a driver's license medical, have you thereby forced yourself to fly totally by Sport Pilot rules, i.e. day only vfr, only light sport qualified aircraft, no vfr flight over cloud layers, etc.

I'm sure some of you CFI's and other knowledgable people out there know the answers. My take is yes, you have turned yourself into a Sport Pilot even though your ticket still says Private on it. Otherwise why wouldn't everybody forget the medical and keep flying Private with no loss of priveleges.

[rv9ralph]

You are correct. You would be limited to flying aircraft that fit into the Light Sport Category and operating under those rules.
However, if you pass a 3rd class medical you can again exercise your privileges under your Private Pilot certificate.
Another however, if you subsequently fail to pass a 3rd class physical, you are grounded until you can pass.

Ralph

[Paul Z]

Good Question, I fly only VFR, a daytime only, I have no landing lights, but I don't like night flying.

[SkyPirate]

Flying PPL without a 3rd class if you have transitioned D airspace and its logged you don't need a endorsement, if your SPL , you need an endorsement to land at a towered D airspace , not sure on the C airspace .. I stay out of that traffic

[TahoeTim]

You can get a b,c,d endorsement for sport pilot.

The bad thing about failing the third class medical is that it grounds you from all flying. I wish Congress would move on the PP drivers license medical bill.

[896tr]

I know several people that are flying without medical certificates. One of them even lands at a class B airport. So my question is, with current staffing and budget what are the chances of getting caught? And what kind of "penalties", if any, would likely be imposed? Inquiring minds want to know.
Steve

[Av8r3400]

I know several people that are flying without medical certificates. One of them even lands at a class B airport. So my question is, with current staffing and budget what are the chances of getting caught? And what kind of "penalties", if any, would likely be imposed? Inquiring minds want to know.
Steve


If these people are private pilots, flying without a third class medical under light sport rules, nothing will happen to them. They are perfectly legal.

If they are only LS pilots, flying without the control tower endorsement, yet working the system right, most likely nothing will happen to them.

[jrevens]

Something to also consider if you're breaking the rules - you're risking an awful lot if you have an accident where insurance is involved. You're also going to potentially hinder any possible easing of the current rules for everyone. I'm not trying to be preachy, but if you have much to loose, and you value the freedoms we enjoy now, think about it.

[Paul Z]

I went in and out of Boise , I have a Private Pilots License flying on my Drivers License. I would imagine if there were an issue with it Paul Leaderbrand would have told me.

[jrevens]

I went in and out of Boise , I have a Private Pilots License flying on my Drivers License. I would imagine if there were an issue with it Paul Leaderbrand would have told me.

Paul,
If your airplane is Sport Pilot legal - registered as 1320# gross, etc. - and you didn't lose your medical before deciding not to renew it, and you meet the other requirements to be Sport Pilot legal, then you are OK. I don't know what you mean by having an "issue" with it, but the rules are pretty clear in that regard. If you're not OK and you have an accident, for instance, your insurance company & the FAA are going to have a real issue with it. I don't know if Paul knew you had a medical or not, or if he asked you. I don't know if you have insurance to protect your assets or the people who you could potentially harm.
The point I was mostly trying to make is that it wouldn't take very many "incidents" or accidents where guys were found bending or breaking the rules to affect the probability of the feds allowing the additional easing of the rules that we're trying so hard to get right now. Guys should just think about it and don't do something dumb that might affect all of us, that's all I'm saying. I'm not naive enough to not know that there are, & always have been people flying airplanes illegally. It's just a different world today than when I started flying over 40 years ago.

[Lion8]

If you fly into controlled airspace without an endorsement weather you are private of Sport, there is nothing wrong with that until something happens. You can rob a bank and everything looks ok, until you get caught. If you drop from Private to Sport, you do not retain the privileges of Private until you go back to Private.

[vetdrem]

Letting your medical expire is NOT "dropping your private" I have allowed my third class medical expire because both my planes meet the sport pilot requirements, I never fly at night, etc. etc. I am still a private pilot. If asked, I reply that I am a private pilot exercising sport pilot privileges.

If I decide that I need to fly a plane that does not meet the sport pilot requirements, I only need to renew my medical.

At no time is my license changed to "sport pilot".

Louie

[Paul Z]

Paul,
If your airplane is Sport Pilot legal - registered as 1320# gross, etc. - and you didn't lose your medical before deciding not to renew it, and you meet the other requirements to be Sport Pilot legal, then you are OK. I don't know what you mean by having an "issue" with it, but the rules are pretty clear in that regard. If you're not OK and you have an accident, for instance, your insurance company & the FAA are going to have a real issue with it. I don't know if Paul knew you had a medical or not, or if he asked you.

I have had my Pilots License since I April of 1983. At my last medical, I had to play the games with the Medical Examiner over a simple Basel Cell Skin Cancer. After that I decided I wanted to fly on my drivers License.

I started looking for a Kitfox Experimental, that was certified as an ESLA. I was surprised how many owners were willing to outright lie to me about the status of the plane. I found only one that was actually Certified as an XLSA with weight limit of 1320. John McBean saved my bacon on this, telling me what to look for in the paperwork.

I went up to the factory to purchase a Series 7 Kit, and John sowed me 703KA the first Factory SLSA for sale, we struck a deal, I now own a Certified SLSA 703KA.

When I went up to fly with Paul we had talked several times, I was the only SLSA owner, that Paul L was unable to fly with, out of the 18 or so owners. I had told both Paul and Preston I was flying as an SLSA Pilot on my drivers license as my medical. The first time I went up to Boise in May of 2014, that I wanted to fly a Tail Dragger to make sure I really wanted to convert mine. I also told Paul I wanted to do some Mountain Flying, we did both, and man was that fun.

Then when I flew my plane up to get it converted I flew with Preston to get familiar with the news 703KA Tail Dragger. In getting my Private Pilots License , I had received my pilots license long before the Endorsement rules for Class B, C, or D. I had been signed off to go into a Towered Control Airport Procedures in May of 1982. I have flown into Dallas Love Field, Addison, Dallas Executive, and San Antonio International many many years ago. I told Preston, I was no longer comfortable flying into Towered Control Airports, and that I wanted to get current. So in my week of familiarization with 703KA as a Tail Dragger we practiced Approach, Tower, Ground, Clearance Delivery, and Departure Communications and the differences for Class B, C, or D Airports.

[SkySteve]

Paul,
(I sure do like your new avitar!) ;)

[Paul Z]

Paul,
(I sure do like your new avitar!) ;)

Well the guy that took the picture is a great friend!

I wish I wasn't so darn FAT!

[Av8r3400]

… If you drop from Private to Sport, you do not retain the privileges of Private until you go back to Private.

I disagree with this statement.

A class D endorsement for a sport pilot certificate holder is about training in radio communications and operations in a controlled airspace. This training is already given in the private pilot licensing process as required by FAR.

This was confirmed by a call to a friend who is a LS instructor.

However, if you can cite the FAR proving me wrong, I will humbly yield.

[digital_photog]

I disagree with this statement.

A class D endorsement for a sport pilot certificate holder is about training in radio communications and operations in a controlled airspace. This training is already given in the private pilot licensing process as required by FAR.

This was confirmed by a call to a friend who is a LS instructor.

However, if you can cite the FAR proving me wrong, I will humbly yield.

I have to agree with this. I am a private pilot with instrument rating. When I dropped my medical and went to flying light sport back in 2009 I asked my instructor about this. He didn't know the answer but checked and reported back to me that as a private pilot I already had the communications training that was required. It makes sense. (not saying that everything the government does makes sense. ;) )

[JimS]

I think flying in the class B-C-D airspace is about the only private privledge that follows to being a sport pilot. You will lose the ability to fly at night, above 10,000', above an overcast (even "broken"), and one I have to be careful of when I let my medical lapse is getting a "special VFR " clearance when the class D airspace my airstrip is located in is less than 1000 and 3 miles. Might be some more but these are a few that come to mind.

JimS