AirParks

[SkyPirate]

since allot of talk is floating around about airparks,,figured I'd start this

[SkyPirate]

I have been doing research on putting an airpark in North East Texas,..
I have researched areas that can have their own water source ( drinking water well) owner gets all mineral rights, no zoning..out in the country but close enough to large town/ small city for shopping etc I have done weather research ( avoiding tornado alley areas..) and rainfall ..dominant wind survey's.. heating source surveys..etc..

Im hoping to find an ideal area that is not in a controlled area,..potential occupants would have no covenants with 2 exceptions,,limited farm animals,,and a minimal fee for runway maintenance,..or a chart could be set up for users of the runway and each take turns mowing etc,..each lot being 5 acres one could set their house back from the runway and have a hangar at the runway or homehangar combo's as I said ,,no rules other then those stated.
I have nothing in stone yet,,nothing commited,,just research at this point

the goal..an airpark that is relaxed and doesn't cost 1,3/4's of a leg and .25 of an arm

[SkyPirate]

I say farm animals..we have horses,..the plan ,,an area for horses ..dogs cats kids what ever kind of wild life ya like :)

[HighWing]

Be careful on the no covenants part. A true story: A buddy of mine while we were both building - me, my Model IV-1200 Rotax 912 and him his Series 5 with 0235 - developed an airpark with almost the exact same ideas you have and with likely the same motivation - lets do this together and make a bit of heaven on earth. (Pic. Attached. I wish he was still here to discuss his experiences with you. He succumbed to health issues).

Apparently everything went well until the lady with the "noise sensitive" horse decided there had to be noise abatement policies attached to the scant covenants already in place. She found a "good" lawyer to help her move things along. My friend, who had a very winnable case was retired at the time and the potential legal costs against his retirement prompted him to walk away from his dream.

Be careful!

[SkyPirate]

Thanks for the heads up Lowell, once it's all said and done, if I sell any lots, there will be some sort of understanding in writing, with each lot being 5 acres, that's 330'x660' , the lots I have been looking at are all different shapes , so lot dimensions will be decided last, first the runway then access to each lot.
I don't know for sure, but sounds like the person that had the horse there might have not been a horse person, I can stand right next to my wife's horses and target practice, they look at what I'm shooting at then look at me as to say ha I could do better then that if I had fingers lol

[SkyPirate]

Sorry for the loss of your friend, I understand all to well the sense of loss with close friends, he built a pretty bird👍

[SkyPirate]

This development I'm in is 86 lots, the smallest is 5 acres, you can't see my house from the road and its 3 floors 10,000 square feet , I use our road now and then for a runway, it's a 120' wide easement I'm a mile in from the main road

[SkyPirate]

The air park I'm considering , I'm trying to find a site that has no houses for at least a mile from its location, but no more then 10 miles from stores etc

[SkyPirate]

Looking for at least 100 acres,, with room for a 3,000 ft runway, that will depend on the shape of the site lot, 300 acres would be better, with ponds a plus, then a potential water landing area could be put in, basically " room to expand" this is where no zoning is a good thing

[SkySteve]

the lady with the "noise sensitive" horse

sounds like the person that had the horse there might have not been a horse person
Agreed. The horse was not the problem. But, you do have to deal with the people. I have horses, love horses, been around horses all my life. Just be very, very clear that it's an airpark, with active airplanes that make lots of noise and come and go at will. I'm a real estate Broker and work with developers designing and selling subdivisions. I use big bold print on all contracts and have lines for initials on every non-normal point. Buyers are required to initial and sign regarding everything/anything required for a subdivision. Oh, and I also have a very well known, good, aggressive, mean arrs attorney.

[SkyPirate]

If my wife didn't want to move to Texas, I'd consider doing it here in Missouri , if you own at least 3 acres here, in a no zoning area you can do anything you want without a permit, just build it

[SkyPirate]

There are 4 family's from California that moved out here just because the permits to build are a large cost of doing anything, and a seperate well for fires? What's up with that? Someone in the state legislature own a well drilling company?

[SkyPirate]

good points Steve,..yes not going into this blind..my family use to build 60 houses a year, every house built above standard,,no I don't want to build anymore houses lol my next place I'm handing over the blueprints to someone else lol

[SkyPirate]

I have a lawyer/cpa/etc..and he is licensed in Texas as well as Missouri

[dcsfoto]

check the local laws In Little Rock Ar a lawyer decided to put in a paved strip and planned to fly a Citation from it. the locals went nuts, and it turns out that his airport was within 5 miles of the city limits and they can impose local zoning laws within 5 miles.

great paved strip that has never had an airplane on it.

[SkyPirate]

dcsfoto,,yes ,,that's why im looking for a no zoning area,..outside of city areas ..once its there if city growth encroaches,,too late,its established,..
grass strip is the plan at first,,light aircraft ,,the runway will have a stone base of 4 to 6 inch 3/4 rock then a fine aggregate put over the top that can support centipede or a like grass that has a complex root system ..it gets dry at times in Texas,,so something that is hearty that can take abuse, eventually by putting the stone base in first and then a fine aggregate,,if it turns out chip and seal is the next option,,,the base is already there,,so burn off the grass compact and seal it

the areas I have been looking at have a sandy soil ,,so if you have landed on a sand runway ,,its like tossing horse shoes..eventually you get a pit (low area) after repeated landing in the same spot,.by putting the base in your eliminating that to an extent..a chip and seal threshold at each end is an option too..all this will depend on the area that is chosen

[SkyPirate]

strategy ..find the proposed site..check laws..water source..power source..airspace..prevailing winds,,weather,, get perk tests done..etc,,if all lines up and it looks like a go ,,purchase property..
another option NE texas is an agricultural area,..there are allot of existing runways on property's for crop dusting,..and they are large parcels,,so if by chance I find a possible site with existing runway half the battle is done

[BerkutFX]

Hello,


NE Texas is humid as heck! I would definitely check out the Fredericksburg and Kerville area (anything WEST of Austin). There are some Airparks in the Kingsland/Marble Falls area and further out west by Fredericksburg. The arid shift in Texas starts in the Austin area and is less humid as you move west - Fredericksburg is about an hour drive west of Austin.

Here is a recent FORBES listing on the BEST PLACES to retire.....

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mjf45hfje/fredericksburg-tx/

Austin is getting "californicated" (excuse my language) and everything just keeps going up in price...UUGH! Heading west of Austin is a good area and has more sane pricing levels. You can grow crops and there are many lakes in this Hill Country region so definitely take a look!

[Paul Z]

I wouldn't give a nickel to live in Austin Texas. The Traffic SUCKS, and to use an old term top damne many YUPPIES! Fredericksburg area is nice Fredericksburg has become too commercialized! The Harley Groups ride that area constantly. But I do like Fredericksburg.


Hello,

NE Texas is humid as heck! I would definitely check out the Fredericksburg and Kerville area (anything WEST of Austin). There are some Airparks in the Kingsland/Marble Falls area and further out west by Fredericksburg. The arid shift in Texas starts in the Austin area and is less humid as you move west - Fredericksburg is about an hour drive west of Austin.

Here is a recent FORBES listing on the BEST PLACES to retire.....

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mjf45hfje/fredericksburg-tx/

Austin is getting "californicated" (excuse my language) and everything just keeps going up in price...UUGH! Heading west of Austin is a good area and has more sane pricing levels. You can grow crops and there are many lakes in this Hill Country region so definitely take a look!

[BerkutFX]

I wouldn't give a nickel to live in Austin Texas. The Traffic SUCKS, and to use an old term top damne many YUPPIES! Fredericksburg area is nice Fredericksburg has become too commercialized! The Harley Groups ride that area constantly. But I do like Fredericksburg.
There is a nice Airpark between Fredericksburg and Kerville... perfect location in my opinion. It is also very nice to have your Airpark location close to a Municipal Airport (about 12 miles away for the Airpark in this area).

[SkyPirate]

There are a few not far from where I'm looking, I'm hoping to have a Mogas resource anyways

[Paul Z]

There is a nice Airpark between Fredericksburg and Kerville... perfect location in my opinion. It is also very nice to have your Airpark location close to a Municipal Airport (about 12 miles away for the Airpark in this area).

What is the name. The problem with most Airparks is they tend to build or want you to build McMansions. I want a 2200 to 2500 square foot home, I don't want or need more than that.

[KFfan]

"californicated"

I vote to add this "term" to Webster's Dictionary :cool:

[SkyPirate]

Im with you Paul ..3000 sq ft max for us now,..the only reason we have this 10000ft place is my wife wanted it,,well after cleaning it for 7 years she is coming to her senses :)

[SkyPirate]

I have pretty much lived all over the world,no matter where you go there are very few places with in my budget/grasp that have the best seasons all year round, so its either killer hot in the summer and doable from sept to june or its awesome from april to November and freeze yer arse off winters, further west in texas there are water rights to deal with..I don't want to be on a meter where you cant take a shower but once a week because of drout,,and I don't want to be on town water at all, or town sewer..yes there is cost of a well and septic system but its a part of the property and I don't have to worry about a 9 year old sitting in the shower for 40 minutes running the water :) I guess its up to what your willing to put up with,
my goal in this endeavor, cost efficient home town feeling flying community that can be realized without all the excessive rules , sure there will have to be some..but as minimal as possible
it can be done..
Im hoping it does not turn into a clicky Im better then you because...... airpark..relaxed demeanor is the goal..be yourself relaxed,,not I better act this way because of so n so,,

[BerkutFX]

What is the name. The problem with most Airparks is they tend to build or want you to build McMansions. I want a 2200 to 2500 square foot home, I don't want or need more than that.

Here is the one I was talking about...

http://www.aviationacres.com/Texas.asp?CMD=AirportDetail&ID=16590

From Canyon Lake Airpark south of San Marcos to Silver Wings Airpark near Fredericksburg there are a good range of Airparks NW of San Antonio to West of Austin.

Another good resource ---> http://www.thirtythousandfeet.com/resident.htm

[SkyPirate]

to my point of relaxed..a friend is coming over shortly and we are going to have a beer and a bon fire :) shoot the shiot have a few laughs then call it a night


how many airparks can you do that in? at one of the ponds there will be a fire ring..anyone that lives on field can use it.. that kind of relaxed.

[SkyPirate]

wow ,,I just looked at http://www.aviationacres.com/Texas.asp?CMD=AirportDetail&ID=16590

that is not what I'm looking for..I bet if your lawn gets over 2 inches you pay a fine at that place,..living in an area like that is to city'fied for me ,the cheapest listed home was 450K and I bet that's on a 100' square lot

[BerkutFX]

wow ,,I just looked at http://www.aviationacres.com/Texas.asp?CMD=AirportDetail&ID=16590

that is not what I'm looking for..I bet if your lawn gets over 2 inches you pay a fine at that place,..living in an area like that is to city'fied for me

I have been to many of these Airparks west and south west of Austin and I have found them all to be very laid back with friendly property owners.

Here is more details on Silver Wings ---> http://www.silverwingsfly.com/

If you really love water here you go ---> http://canyonlakeairport.net/

[SkyPirate]

silver wings looks nice..more on my lines with close to a 5 acre lot

[SkyPirate]

I looked at a place north of dallas on the lake.nice home but...after researching it ,,the guy was selling because of a neighbor,,and the lots were on top of each other houses very close to each other,,you couldn't step out in your yard without 4 neighbors asking you what you were doing and why did you paint your house that color...
been there done that..

[av8rps]

I always thought airparks were cool, so I decided to create my own a few years back. So here's that story;

About 15 yrs ago I had decided that I missed living in the country (was born and raised on a farm), so I bought a really nice 60 acre parcel of land with a half mile of riverfront on it along with a beautiful spring fed pond. The realtor actually laughed out loud when I told him I was going to make a private airport on it, as there wasn't anywhere longer than a few hundred feet that was flat where I told him I was going to make the runway. So he just couldn't imagine how I would ever get it flat enough to land an airplane on it?

But after a long summer of effort operating a small bulldozer and my ford tractor, I ended up with a really nice flat 2450' x 75' runway that faces 250 degrees, which ironically is about perfect for the winds in the area. I even got the FAA's blessing (along with the neighbors, the township, the county, the state, etc) so it is officially in the FAA database (Wisconsin 3WI3). Now granted, it has very large white pines at each end, so I typically refer to it as my "STOL ONLY Airport" , which keeps most of my spam can friends from wanting to land there :rolleyes:. But for my Kitfox, Highlander, or Lake Amphibian, it is a great little airport (notice in the one picture below one of our own [Jim S] is back taxiing for takeoff after coming to see me in his Kitfox IV. He used less than half the runway for landing, and about an 1/8th to depart.)

It was a really great project, and I can't even begin to tell you the accomplishment I feel from having created my own little piece of aviation paradise...

Unfortunately, I never built a house or hangar on it :confused:. Once the runway was done my wife and I got real serious about building our dream log home overlooking the river, along with the monster-hangar I had always envisioned for all my toys. But after settling in on house and hangar plans, we came to the realization that neither of us were ready to give up living on the lake. We had lived on this lake since we were 25 yrs old so it truly has become our home. And I just love flying off water. AND we love the community and all the friends we've made here (campfires with friends enjoying a beer with us is a VERY regular occurence). So we ultimately wrote off that whole episode in our lives as our "joint mid-life crisis", and decided to just sit on our airport property until we grow up :D

In the meantime, since the property is only 20 miles from our lakehouse, I go out there and screw around when I feel like it. Occasionally I will even land my Highlander there (on the runway which I now only mow when I feel like it...thanks to big tires!).

But who knows, maybe one day I could still build there? There's really one problem with that... (hint: the last picture reveals it)

If only it were just a thousand miles further south ;)

[SkyPirate]

Nice av8rps that's really al you need for room ,..isn't it funny those that have not worked the land cant imagine how it can be shaped at will with a little effort ..good job~!

[SkyPirate]

this is one of the places Im looking at not the best photo ..but it wont take much to do it ..its 106 acres N/S strip is 2100' long E/W is 2800'

[Rooster]

Hello all.

We did it here in South Africa.

http://www.wingspark.co.za/wings/home.asp

As the guys say, watch out that your original ethos of generosity and like-mindedness is not hijacked by someone who thinks that it is better to enhance the value of their investment than to promote aviation in general.

This has worked well for us so far, and is a fine collection of like-minded people who are very friendly towards each other as well as visitors.

The laws weren't too difficult regarding the sub division of agricultural land.
We bought the whole farm, formed a CC and the go/no go number of shares was 21. above 21 shares, each share became cheaper. At 21 shares 12500.00 dollars, and at Max (42 shares) it was 7500 dollars. The whole farm (320 hectares) cost about 200 000.00 dollars at the time. Each share gave you 25x25meter (don't know this in your language) piece of land with electricity point. There is a good well on the farm, but residents collect rain runoff in 10 000 litre tanks from their hangar/home roofs and have never run out. The runway area is fenced off with game proof fencing to keep the wildlife off of the runway and the farm is rented out to a local cattle farmer for a touch extra income. Now, shares are selling at min 30 000 dollars and this is where the original ethos comes under threat, as new entrants may be more selfish than the original dream realising generous, aviation-in-their-blood types.

Do contact the management committee in the website to get their input if you like. they love to share their experience and what they have learned, with others.
Regards
Reid

[SkyPirate]

Nice set up Rooster,

75 meters square is about 245'x245'

An acre is 43560 square feet roughly 208.71' squared

I'm hoping to do something similar but 5 acre lots, I'm going to be moving to Texas, and with a set up like this in mind, but I really don't care if I sell any lots, but the opportunity will be there, financially I have to do it with in my means so if no lots get sold I'm not hanging my arse out on a limb, and that will be my guideline as to how /where/when .. When it can be realized.
I know there are flyers that would like an opportunity to have something like this available.. The only hold back for most is what's involved , relocating, income if not retired, etc
This has been a dream of mine for many years, Texas is where it's going to happen only because my wife wants to move back.. I almost did it in North Carolina 10 years ago, but ,,, I got married ,,,, :)

[av8rps]

Thanks Chase. Yes, it is funny how so many can't imagine building their own runway / private airport / air park. But it truly is a rewarding experience, and even though it can be a quite large effort, it was a lot of fun.



Nice av8rps that's really al you need for room ,..isn't it funny those that have not worked the land cant imagine how it can be shaped at will with a little effort ..good job~!

[av8rps]

Reid,

I like what you did. Very, very nice. Having investors each get their own lot for such a small investment is an excellent way to get one of these going. I am very impressed that an L39 can operate from that runway. I wasn't aware they could operate from grass.

Hmmmm???? Maybe I need to start selling lots on my airport? I can sell off 3 acre lots (or larger) without having to do anything, so maybe I could do something similar even now. Food for thought...

Paul


Hello all.

We did it here in South Africa.

http://www.wingspark.co.za/wings/home.asp

As the guys say, watch out that your original ethos of generosity and like-mindedness is not hijacked by someone who thinks that it is better to enhance the value of their investment than to promote aviation in general.

This has worked well for us so far, and is a fine collection of like-minded people who are very friendly towards each other as well as visitors.

The laws weren't too difficult regarding the sub division of agricultural land.
We bought the whole farm, formed a CC and the go/no go number of shares was 21. above 21 shares, each share became cheaper. At 21 shares 12500.00 dollars, and at Max (42 shares) it was 7500 dollars. The whole farm (320 hectares) cost about 200 000.00 dollars at the time. Each share gave you 25x25meter (don't know this in your language) piece of land with electricity point. There is a good well on the farm, but residents collect rain runoff in 10 000 litre tanks from their hangar/home roofs and have never run out. The runway area is fenced off with game proof fencing to keep the wildlife off of the runway and the farm is rented out to a local cattle farmer for a touch extra income. Now, shares are selling at min 30 000 dollars and this is where the original ethos comes under threat, as new entrants may be more selfish than the original dream realising generous, aviation-in-their-blood types.

Do contact the management committee in the website to get their input if you like. they love to share their experience and what they have learned, with others.
Regards
Reid

[HighWing]

All good comments. As I mentioned we moved here 15 or so years ago. I don't know when it happened, but the airport is now owned by the county and receives Federal Funds which is not all bad. It was developed in the early 70s when our area was just a pit stop between the Bay Area and Lake Tahoe. It was developed as a semi mountain getaway for the aviation nut with a nearby golf course. Now it is a community of commuters - drivers to Sacramento and fliers who work in the Bay area - then, of course, the retired people.

Many of the houses are small as you would expect from the early years - a place to sleep on those lazy weekends getting away by air. Newer homes are larger, some with three car garages as well as large hangars.

Since these projects can live forever, some thoughts. The guy across the street - second owner - is in one of the largest homes in the airpark. He commutes to OAK for his work at SouthWest Airlines in a Twin Comanche. he can't get it in his hangar because the door is not tall enough to fit the vertical Stabilizer. He keeps his Piper J-5 in there all alone. He rented for a while - the big bucks on top of the mortgage but now keeps it tied down outside. If possible, build for the next guy - much easier when on the market. We just repaved the Taxiways / Streets to the tune of 1 Million 2. Plan ahead on that stuff as well. This is one reason the FAA $$ is not a bad idea - they take care of airport maintenance. Build a garage. Can't imagine moving all the cars twice every time you want to fly - many do here. Another friend flew a Stearman. No garage and again the hangar door was a tad short. Not only did he have to move the cars, he had to let some air out of the tires and refill every time he flew to clear the top wing. I also helped him re-cover an aileron after his wife misjudged the stop point. I am not a lazy guy, but those things could sure stifle an impulse to punch a few holes.

[SkyPirate]

raising a hangar is easy crib it up above the altitude you want it pour a kneewall set it back down add to your door,.. if the hangars are standard...and bolted to the floor if they were driven or buried posts its a little more involved,..I have raised houses and put full basements or footers under it then set it back down,, I once moved a 60' x 120 ' church ..it was 29' to the peek..it took 8 hours to move it 7 miles..but all done in a day but it took 4 days to ready it

[SkyPirate]

the easiest way to raise a hangar if it has the standard bolt down steel gerters..add one of these to each leg then pour the knee wall after and encasing the knee braces

[SkyPirate]

well the place I listed earlier is out, so next.... this one is better in dimension

[Rooster]

I like what you did. Very, very nice. Having investors each get their own lot for such a small investment is an excellent way to get one of these going. I am very impressed that an L39 can operate from that runway. I wasn't aware they could operate from grass.

Hmmmm???? Maybe I need to start selling lots on my airport? I can sell off 3 acre lots (or larger) without having to do anything, so maybe I could do something similar even now. Food for thought...

Paul

Yes, Paul. I couldn't believe it either, but when I saw the guy sidle up to the AVGAS pumps and fill up, I nearly fell over backwards!

By the way, we sell both Mogas and avgas at Wings park. It has become the preferred stop for people travelling down the coast, rather than East London airport.

The max number of shares is still 42 and they are all accounted for and buildings are going up steadily.

PS How do I "quote a previous poster?"

Regards
Reid

[SkyPirate]

Lower right in each text box click on it, and it will open a new box, edit what you want to post, add your text :)

[av8rps]

WAIT A MINUTE! YOU said he filled up with AVGAS??? An L39 can run on avgas?


I like what you did. Very, very nice. Having investors each get their own lot for such a small investment is an excellent way to get one of these going. I am very impressed that an L39 can operate from that runway. I wasn't aware they could operate from grass.

Hmmmm???? Maybe I need to start selling lots on my airport? I can sell off 3 acre lots (or larger) without having to do anything, so maybe I could do something similar even now. Food for thought...

Paul

Yes, Paul. I couldn't believe it either, but when I saw the guy sidle up to the AVGAS pumps and fill up, I nearly fell over backwards!

By the way, we sell both Mogas and avgas at Wings park. It has become the preferred stop for people travelling down the coast, rather than East London airport.

The max number of shares is still 42 and they are all accounted for and buildings are going up steadily.

PS How do I "quote a previous poster?"

Regards
Reid

[Esser]

Maybe an L19? haha

[HighWing]

[QUOTE=SkyPirate;46367]raising a hangar is easy crib it up above the altitude you want it pour a kneewall set it back down add to your door,.. /QUOTE]


I guess there are hangars and there are hangars. I stand by my advice. If anyone reading this decides to participate in an Airpark community it likely will be around for a long time Plan wisely!

[beeryboats]

WAIT A MINUTE! YOU said he filled up with AVGAS??? An L39 can run on avgas?

When I pumped AVGAS as a kid we had a small jet trainer fill up on gas and one quart of oil. At first I refused to pump the gas until he showed me the POH that stated it was acceptable. We were having problems with line guys filling "Turbo" Cessnas with JetA when they were really just turbocharged gas engines....

[PapuaPilot]

Jet engines can run on almost any type of fuel and Pratt & Whitney PT6 engines are approved to run on avgas.

[SkyPirate]

That's nice Lowell👍
Right now at my house( no runway) I have a plane in the down stairs shop now, and room for 2 Kitfox ( or 8 if you fold the wings :). In the upstairs shop ) if this all pans out , the idea of putting a flying community together.. I plan on a bunker style hangar with the house on top, 40'x60' hangar with 12' ceiling , it will depend on the lay of the land of course.. So the main floor of the house is ground level on the front, hangar out the back

[SkyPirate]

something on the lines of this..thought about a crows nest/tower type deck above roof line ..maybe..off to the side

[jetsrforkids]

Google Critters lodge. It's a very nice, small airpark between Houston and Dallas. They also host a great fly-in every year. Best part (for the ladies) are the flushing toilets, no porto-potties.

[jetsrforkids]

Take a look at Critters Lodge in Leon County in between Houston and Dallas. It's a very nice spot and they hold a great fly-in every year.

[Paul Z]

I'm trying to find a place to build a retirement home. Critters Lodge doesn't offer Property for sale from what I can tell.

[GregA]

Paul,

Try D17 in western CO (Westwinds Airpark). Lots for sale there - I'm planning to build this year. Caution: desert. But, no landscape maintenance.

Greg

[Wheels]

Delta Shores Clark Fork Idaho has a few houses for sale. Snow in the winter, mud in the spring, grass summer and fall. Lots of animals and the prettiest landscape in America

[vetdrem]

I have an airpark lot for sale in Arkansas. tract "F" on Winfield Air Park.

winfieldairpark.com

Louie

[SkyPirate]

54AR Winfield is 161 NM from me, im still checking property in NE texas, something will show up, im not in a rush, got to sell this place first, almost ready for the market