Kitfox forum US Sport Aviation Expo

[teamkitfox7788]

An FYI, The US Sport Aviation Expo, in Sebring, Florida, this January 14 thru 17 will host three forums on combining touring the US by small motor home and Kitfox (or Just, Avid, Aerotrek, etc). My wife and I have taken our Kitfox IV, Rotax 80, all over the US each year for over a decade. Starting in the Florida keys, hitting down east coastal Maine and the International Seaplane fly in at Moose Head Lake, eating lots of lobsters, heading out to the Pacific coast, crossing back over to play extensively in the Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Moab, Bryce Canyon, Montecello and Canyon Lands area, and on our return playing on remote Gulf coast barrier islands with a whole lot more in between. We rarely stay overnight at RV parks, saving huge expenses that way, which is surprisingly easy. I am happy to share how this process of touring by RV and LSA can be remarkably inexpensive and of course huge FUN. The plane and enclosed trailer, which serves as a mobile hanger and shop, is dropped off at airports along the way where we want to fly, down low and slow, which of course is our pleasure in the Kitfox. Then, when the weather is spectacular we hop in the Kitfox and go flying, what a treat. No need to schedule a check ride to use a rental plane, no scheduling of a rental plane in advance just to find the weather did not cooperate or the rental is out of service and no worries about rental aircraft maintenance history. Best of all the types of places we fly in (NOT OVER) are absolutely meant for light STOL aircraft like a Kitfox. For those who do not fold their wings frequently, From pulling the trailer thru an airport gate to having the Kitfox out of its nest, wings swung and ready to fly is as little as 8 minutes if you have your act down pat. I can show lots of tips on "How To Do It". We have probably 85,000 plus miles over the road with the plane in the trailer without hurting the plane And only been denied access thru an airport gate once. If you get a chance come by one of the forums, love to exchange ideas, learn from others. Oh, I will probably do similar forums again this year at Sun N Fun, Air Venture and Copper State. No sales involved, just info sharing from a member of the SoutherMost EAA Chapter 1241, Marathon, Florida Keys Best to all for the new year. BJ Kitfox IV 1050 Rotax 912 bjones@dmv.com (https://mmail.virtdom.com/webmail/src/compose.php?send_to=bjones%40dmv.com)

[SkySteve]

I saw you and your rig (and giant spiders) at Copperstate this October. You were pretty busy talking with folks and my wife was hungry so I didn't get a chance to chat. We have been thinking a lot about doing something similar here in the western US with a pickup camper. Do you have a book or other form of media with all your secret tips and tricks?

[Paul Z]

Sounds like an interesting form. I think it would be great if you posted one of your adventures on the Kitfox Forums.

I have been contemplating renting an enclosed trailer to haul my Kitfox SLSA to Alaska. Since I fly on my drivers license the Canadians will not allow me to fly through Canada. So trailering it is the only option. How wide and long of Trailer, 8.5 ft X 22 ft?

[wannafly]

I would like to echo those ideas. Post a trip on this site and share other media sources for purchase or otherwise. I fly a fair bit within 100 miles of home so the longer flights and packing and what to take is of interest to me. Dreaming of a flight to Oshkosh...

[kitfox2009]

Happy New Year to all Kitfoxers

I have added a few new pics to my "albums" on Kitfox2009 if anyone is interested in another idea for a trailer.
The empty trailer is less than 2000 lbs which I feel is important when towing behind a smaller RV like mine.
Most of the pics are during construction last summer in my back yard.
It tows very well but unfortunately "life and business" got in the way this year because my plan was to head south before winter.
The only trip so far was a few hundred kilometers across southern BC last fall.
Cheers
Don

[kitfox2009]

The finished product.
All loaded and ready to go. Note prop blade out the back!!!!
Don

[Esser]

Sounds like an interesting form. I think it would be great if you posted one of your adventures on the Kitfox Forums.

I have been contemplating renting an enclosed trailer to haul my Kitfox SLSA to Alaska. Since I fly on my drivers license the Canadians will not allow me to fly through Canada. So trailering it is the only option. How wide and long of Trailer, 8.5 ft X 22 ft?

Hi Paul, if you don't land in Canada on your way we will never know! I honestly wonder if there is a loop hole there....

It's funny how you can't fly here but I can have a 60 month medical because I'm under 40 but still be allowed to fly in the US.

[Paul Z]

Yea, I checked, I was planning a vacation, I was going to fly to Valdez Alaska for their STOL Flyin. I found out I need to get a Class 3 Physical to fly through Canada. I have no desire to walk in to a Doctor, and have him say oops you've got an ingrown toe nail, so you can't get a medical. That would end my flying. As long as I stay out of the Doctors I am in charge, when I feel good I fly when my in grown toe nail hurts I don't fly.

[Paul Z]

The finished product.
All loaded and ready to go. Note prop blade out the back!!!!
Don

I see it is a Boat Trailer. Looks like it takes you longer to unwrap it than to fold the wings. I drive a Toyota Tacoma Truck, I can't tow a Hugh heavy trailer. I/m thinking of getting an Enclosed Trailer. I need to go Fold the wings and do some measuring to see what trailer size I would need.

[kitfox2009]

It takes about 30 or 40 minutes to load or unload. I haven`t done it many times, so I may get better at it.
The intent was for long hauls. I have a small open trailer for short trips.

[ken nougaret]

BJ, you present a good forum. I saw you a couple of times at sunnfun and sebring. Hope to see you again at sebring 2015. Ken

[ken nougaret]

Kitfox2009, what is the length of your boat trailer used for your new rig. What is the material of your frame and front. Thanks, ken

[teamkitfox7788]

There are of course lots of trailer options. Two have been started in this thread. A modifeid single axle boat trailer and dual axle enclosed trailer.

The boat trailer with "fabric" enclosure keeps weight way down, is more cumbersome to load and unload and has less floor storage space but for limited use and a small tow vehicle a great option.

Since the Just Super STOL is too big to fit in 8 foot 6 inch wide trailer at least one fellow took his on a flat bed type vehicle , really slick looking rig, to Alaska. Again probably not everyones choice to have the plane exposed to elements , kids, and unsavory characters over night in parking lots.

Most Kitfoxes are about 22 feet long folded so a 24 foot long enclosed trailer seems to be adequate. Measure your plane then think about trailers

Most enclosed car trailers have rear corner structure that makes the ramp door opening too narrow to get a Kitfox thru and into the trailer.

One of my trailers is an 8 foot 6 inch wide trailer, identical to the one the Kitfox factory used early on with 1.5 inch wall studs front to back. This allows enough ramp door opening to squeeze a Kitfox in but loading is slow and must be done carefully or wing leading edges scrape against the trailer structure. So it was a PIA to load and unload the plane. Took too much time and effort compared to alternative -WIDER TRAILER

That trailer was 27 feet long with camper features in front and I pulled it with a 2,500 series Yukon XL (Suburban clone) Wife did not like smeelin"plane" in camper area so along came the conversion van and no motel or camp ground costs, big cost savings there but increased enrty cost for used conversion van.

Check pickup mounted camper as a tow vehicle for overhang of camper interferring with enclosed trailer front corners while trurning and trailer tongue lenght necessary for clearance. You may find that the truck is at gross rear axle weight rating with the camper and another 500 to 1,000 pounds of trailer tongue weight causes serious handing problems. Not sure.

Most class B and C motorhomes are limited to 500 pound tongue weight and 5,000 pounds gross trailer weight. Those that I have towed with have handling problems except the Chev y/Roadtrek 190 series conversion vans which are on a one ton chasis, have short coach overhang and great towing physics (and rated for 8,200 pound trailers!) That van is easy to drive around when dooing the see the USA in your Chevrolet part of our trips.

I accidentally got a 9 foot wide 24 foot long trailer, what a joy to load and unload the kitfox. The other trailer is now banished to hold a little Kubota loader, backhoe out of the sun and salt air down here in the Florida Keys.

Yes 8.5 feet is the strating point for general max width in most states. An online permit good for a year solves that in most states if you choose to bother but is generally a waste of money. All of us who tow much wider, longer and heavier sport fishing boats up and down the east coast have found from experience that under 10 feet wide no one bothers with a permit unless they are commercial haulers and go thru commercial weight stations. Use common sense, don't tow thru narrow city streets which are not interstate, don't go thru old bridges in the Northeast that are real narrow. Some folks should not be towing a row boat. Know your own limitations.

If I were going to buy a new trailer I would catch up with Mark Sorenson, Custom Aircraft Trailers, who has an arrangement with Arising Trailers to build an 8 foot 9 inch wide aircraft trailer. His base trailers are about $6,000 new. Two 3,500 pound gross weihht capacity Torsion axles give a low floor which makes loading easier and gives a soft ride for plane, very good idea there.. The thinner the wall studs the more room inside and the easier to load and unload. Have gussets welded in at the top corner near the rear wall stud to roof cross member joints to avoid weld cracks at those corners

Get ramp lift assist that does not get in the way of ramp door opening. Single peice roof to avoid leaks. Springs built into ramp door hinge line or a torsion bar in that same area,This needs to be done right or it does not work well. Two doors on passenger side good.

If you will be on the road significant distances, up grade to load range E tires and the largest tires that will fit on your trailer. Most original equipment ST (Special Trailer) tires in load range C are foreign junk. LT (Light Truck - passenger) tires are better quality ever since Firestone tires were blowing out and Ford Explorers were rolling over with kids and soccer moms inside. After that LT (passenger tires) started getting serious quality control. The big boat dealers and big boat trailer shops say go with LT tires based on experience.

IF YOUR RIG IS EASY AND SIMPLE AND QUICK TO LOAD, STRAP DOWN PROPERLY AND UNLOAD THEN YOU WILL PLAY MORE AND HAVE MORE FUN.

IF IT IS CUMBERSOME YOU WILL NOT USE IT NEARLY AS MUCH.

BJ 2004 Kitfox 1050 Rotax 80 Roadtrek 190

[teamkitfox7788]

Paul Z

Typical enclosed tandem axle plane trailers weigh about 3,500 to 4,000 empty. Check Toyota trailer weight rating to see if an enclosed 6,000 lb loaded trailer might work

The enclosed tandem axle trailer weighs about twice as much empty as the modified boat trailer pictured in this thread.

I bought the 9 foot wide tandem axle trailer I currently use on the used market off of Barnstormers

WanaFly,

I used to fly to Oshkosh from Md for the day in my PA-39, early start and slow ground speed outbound but quick on way back thanks to a pair of turbochargers on the PA-39

Once retirement, Kitfox, enclosed trailer and conversion van came into the picture I usually take a leisurely trip out and back flying here and there along the way down low and slow in the Kitfox. (no need to consider tents under a plane wing anymore for an extended stay at Air Venture)

[kitfox2009]

Hi Ken
The original trailer is a 24 foot Carni 2008 model that I purchased locally for 1700 dollars.The beauty of this model is 15 inch rims, real trailer tires,hydraulic brakes,movable axel location and torsion suspension. I found to get the hitch weight right it was necessary to drop the aircraft ramps below and outboard the frame rails. This also lowers the overall center of gravity .
The material is a heavy duty 18x28 hay storage tarp. They are cheap so I carry a spare. The tarp is winched down by having one half inch steel conduit in the pocket. It is only the rear 6 feet or so that gets rolled back for loading.The hoops are formed from three quarter inch conduit. Trailer is 102 inches wide, maximum for BC..
The floor and front is plywood covered with Coverall building fabric.
Sides are roofing steel. Uprights are 2 inch angle iron.
I utilized salvage material as much as possible.
Cheers
Don

[ken nougaret]

Thank you don, good job. Ken

[teamkitfox7788]

SkySteve and Paul Z

I posted a couple of batches of pictures on Photo bucket some time ago.

to get to them copy and paste the following into your browser. http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/N154K/library/Keys%20N154K%202013

There are several sets of photos,click on one, if it opens, click on a photo to expand it and see notes for the photo, then click on an arrow next to the photo to go to the next photo

I am not good at this stuff and a couple of the files did not load photos so you will not get anything if you try to open those, sorry

BJ Kitfox IV 1050, Rotax 912, Roadtrek 190 motor home
bjones@dmv.com

[SkySteve]

Thanks, BJ. Will check them out.

[av8rps]

This thread is close to my heart as I started dragging an Avid Flyer around on a trailer behind my camper way back in 1987.

At first I used a Ford E-150 short wheel base van that I had built a crude bed in so we could sleep in it. I used an open trailer to haul the airplane. Later I had a custom cover made for the Avid that wrapped it up like a cocoon, protecting it from light road debris and weather. That worked well, but I had more desire for better accomodations when out camping for longer periods.

So I bought an older 22 ft Winnebago Class C-motorhome for $4500. Man, it was like heaven camping in that compared to the van...now I had climate control when sleeping in the queen size bed, gobs and gobs of storage so my wife could take all the shoes she wanted, and ice cold beer in the fridge for our evening entertainment ;). Now we were living!

Then a year later I bought a set of floats for the Avid, and thats when the real fun started. I was the hit of the campgrounds wherever I showed up. Because we had an extra bed in the motorhome we occasionally would take friends with us. One remembrance of that was when we took friends with us to a campground up on lake Superior. As soon as we arrived I backed the plane into the water at the boat landing (after folding out the wings in the parking lot and putting the turtle deck cover on - all of 5 minutes). Then we dropped the trailer and positioned the motorhome in the campsite with the awning out, and took my Honda Elite 250 Scooter down from the back bumper rack. After we had the campsite all set up, the girls took the Honda to town to do some shopping. In the meantime my buddy and I flew up and down the Lake Superior shoreline sightseeing, taking in all the beautiful scenery conducive to a pristine clear water shoreline laced with caves, rivers, inlets, marinas, beautiful homes, etc, etc. The conditions were perfect, so my friend and I flew all afternoon, spending nearly as much time taking off and landing and step taxiing as we did flying. But as the afternoon turned into evening we were eventually forced to come back to camp as the sun was beginning to set. The girls were back at camp (with more new shoes :rolleyes:), and had a nice campfire going. A few hours after a really good campfire-cooked steak dinner and some fermented adult malt beverages, we all turned in to our nice cozy camper for a good nights rest.

The next morning I took the girls up for a beautiful lakeshore tour in the Avid, and then later my buddy and I went up for a longer trip to check out the other direction and some islands. The next morning we packed up the camper and the Avid and headed on home. My friends said it was a long weekend they would never forget as most people are lucky to have a fishing boat, much less an airplane you take camping.

I now fly an amphib airplane and live on a lake, so I don't have a lot of need to camp anymore ;). But I miss doing that and sometimes think I need to find time to do it again. I keep thinking I'd really like to trailer an airplane on wheels out west to do some airplane camping and booney bashing in the mountains. I just can't allocate the personal time for that right now. But I am most definitely keeping it on my bucket list.

I'm convinced these planes we all enjoy here are probably the coolest toy a human being can own. Going places with your plane behind your camper is just one more of the incredible features we can enjoy that most other planes can't do. So if you've never tried it you need to.

It's a blast!

Paul S
Kitfox IV 912 UL amphib

[Paul Z]

SkySteve and Paul Z

I posted a couple of batches of pictures on Photo bucket some time ago.

to get to them copy and paste the following into your browser. http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/N154K/library/Keys%20N154K%202013

There are several sets of photos,click on one, if it opens, click on a photo to expand it and see notes for the photo, then click on an arrow next to the photo to go to the next photo

I am not good at this stuff and a couple of the files did not load photos so you will not get anything if you try to open those, sorry

BJ Kitfox IV 1050, Rotax 912, Roadtrek 190 motor home
bjones@dmv.com

I'd have a hard time leaving your back yard. My biggest issue is I live in town with a small lot, storage of a 22' trailer would be difficult. I've been trying to get my wife to move out of town with no luck. So I am stuck in the crappy suburbs of Dallas.

[SkyPirate]

Paul..Im getting closer to purchasing some property NE of Dallas,,hopefully enough room for a nice grass strip and sell some lots around it..

[SkyPirate]

if someone has the capability..a nice gooseneck trailer that has a built in camper in the front ,..I drew one up few years back that could carry 2 kitfox and had room for 4 in the living area,..built from the right material could be hauled with a 4x4 3/4 ton pick up

[Paul Z]

Chase, I found some property south of Fort Worth Plenty big, it is some nice pasture land with Trees surrounding the pasture. A real nice house, I was thinking of contacting you about it. I plan on looking at it next week. It could have some parcels sold off. It has one pasture that is perfectly aligned for 17 35 and even a cross wind runway. It is near Glen Rose. PM me and we can talk.

[Paul Z]

SkySteve and Paul Z

I posted a couple of batches of pictures on Photo bucket some time ago.

to get to them copy and paste the following into your browser. http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/N154K/library/Keys%20N154K%202013

There are several sets of photos,click on one, if it opens, click on a photo to expand it and see notes for the photo, then click on an arrow next to the photo to go to the next photo

I am not good at this stuff and a couple of the files did not load photos so you will not get anything if you try to open those, sorry

BJ Kitfox IV 1050, Rotax 912, Roadtrek 190 motor home
bjones@dmv.com


Some nice Photos of Corpus Christy, I have yet to take the time to fly down there. I am sure there are some next things to see. I like the Flame Job on your Kitfox

[Paul Z]

if someone has the capability..a nice gooseneck trailer that has a built in camper in the front ,..I drew one up few years back that could carry 2 kitfox and had room for 4 in the living area,..built from the right material could be hauled with a 4x4 3/4 ton pick up

My Toyota wouldn't pull it.

[SkyPirate]

Paul tried to call,,then sent pm :)

[WWhunter]

If your idea comes to fruition please let me know. I am wanting to eventually find an airpark type place in Tx, Az, or NM to be a snowbird. Have a strip on my place in northern Mn that is my own paradise. Great hunting and fishing, but come the end of deer season the wife and I want to head to warmer climate. Getting to old to deal with sub zero weather.

[av8rps]

You might want to check out some Florida airparks as well. I just got a super deal on a lot at a really nice air park located on the st johns river not far from Daytona. Four of my friends also bought lots, so its going to be a fun place for all of us. I really hadn't planned it that way, but lets just say the deals out there were just too good for any of us to pass on. For whatever reason, it seems there currently are better than average airpark deals out there right now.


If your idea comes to fruition please let me know. I am wanting to eventually find an airpark type place in Tx, Az, or NM to be a snowbird. Have a strip on my place in northern Mn that is my own paradise. Great hunting and fishing, but come the end of deer season the wife and I want to head to warmer climate. Getting to old to deal with sub zero weather.

[ken nougaret]

Av8rps, whats the name of that airpark? My wife and i have toyed with that idea as well. Ken

[WWhunter]

av8rps,
I actually already own a place in Florida. Spent nearly 10 years down there, not a big fan of the humidity. I was just there visiting the in-laws and did visit one airpark but I think I prefer the southwest and the wide open spaces it offers. Having said this, I will keep my options open.

[HighWing]

I can support the idea of airpark living. We've been in one - Cameron Park - for fifteen years and still love it. Google Earth - Aeronca Way, Cameron Park, CA - that's my street.

The good: We are in the Sierra foothills and consequently above the winter Central Valley fog and far enough from the coast that we only get hints of the high coastal winds. Snow? - every two or three years maybe a couple of inches. Typically every day is a fly day unless a weather front is passing through. Also and a biggie, somehow we have been able to avoid the drama found so often in themed or gated communities. We also have four Kitfoxes here to welcome you. My next door neighbor - Cessna 206 - is a general contractor as well as a great guy and can build your dream home if you can deal with the bad.

The Bad: It is California after all with all its "drama" and costs - for new construction, you will be paying ~ $100,000 in fees. That is likely why we have so many for sale signs on the vacant lots here, but homes do come on line from time to time. I would think if you wanted something custom, bare property prices are pretty good right now.

When I hear of the cost of hangaring, I just subtract those numbers from my house payment. It usually produces a grin.

[WWhunter]

Being an avid hunter and one of those dreaded 'gun fanatics' I would have a hard time in Ca. I have been there a few times and think Ca. is a very nice state and have felt the people were very nice and laid back. Never had a problem...except that time I drove through Watts, got lost in a rental car, and it did get my hyper senses on full alert. Had a few days to waste before heading overseas. Ah, my youth when I was invincable! LOL

I currently have been building my own private heaven in MN. and anyone of you are welcome to stop in if you are in the area. My place is very close to the headwaters of the Mississippi river. 120 acres within the boundries of the Paul Bunyan State Forest. Plenty of useable strip for a Kitfox or planes of its type. Have a hangar and have been slowly working on a log house. You can see it in the link below. I just need a place to go in the winter.

www.google.com/maps/@47.2003873,-95.1235253,1298m/data=!3m1!1e3

[av8rps]

Av8rps, whats the name of that airpark? My wife and i have toyed with that idea as well. Ken

Mount Royal in Crescent City. It's in my opinion probably one of the nicest, if not the nicest smaller airpark in Florida, but is somewhat new and for some reason or other unknown to many. Covenants are pretty strict, which probably turns some off. But that keeps it the beautiful place it is. And for those not needing a big fancy house, they still have some lots for sale that allow for a hangar home that only requires an 800 sq ft house with the hangar.

I think because there are so many other airparks around it there's lots of competition (Leeward at Ocala on one side of it and Spruce Creek in Daytona on the other - but those places are HUGE by comparison. But there's also some smaller ones around it too. Seems Florida is peppered with airparks).

I'm looking at highs this week that are below zero, so I'm looking forward to the day I can complain about it being too hot or humid in the winter ;) . And I still love lake living in Wisconsin in the summer, but one day I'm going to find a way to escape the winter at least every now and then. You'll find me then at Mount Royal.

[Paul Z]

The finished product.
All loaded and ready to go. Note prop blade out the back!!!!
Don

kitfox2009 I have been trying to find your album, but I can't find it. I am interested in your trailer design.

[SkyPirate]

My goal, purchase a property big enough to put 20 5 acre lots around the runway, do as you please, no covenants with exception to numbers of farm animals, 5 acres of pigs could make a nasty smell lol with that understanding, no other issues, but would hope for people that keep their property in as good a shape as a legal aircraft needs to be to fly :)

[Paul Z]

Chase, where are you looking in North Texas? Easy of McKinney, & Sherman area?

Paul

[SkyPirate]

the place Im looking at is about 52 NM 60 +/- miles Northeast of from DWF 23 NM South east of Sherman, Im checking the aquafur to see if this property can have its own water source,..mineral rights go to the owners,the last thing I'd want is to get it all put together and have someone claiming mineral rights put an oil well right in the middle of the runway,and no zoning....I should have more info this week

[av8rps]

I can understand people not liking florida's humidity. But where I bought is far enough north and east in the state that I believe it is more than bearable when I want to be there (winter). But I can agree with more open space like they have out west, as so much of florida is overpopulated imho. But one of the things I really like about Mount Royal (aka Crescent City) is that it is surrounded by natural state parks and forests, so there are miles and miles of uninhabited areas like I am used to here in Wisconsin.

But you know, if a bunch of us end up on airparks all over the country, or have our own private airstrips, it's just going to be that much more fun as we will all have reasons to go see eachother. :)

Ps - I love your piece of paradise there in Minnesota. Looks like a really cool setup. I've done some float flying around that area. Beautiful country! There's an annual seaplane gathering at Gull Lake that I attend when I can. I belong to the Minnesota seaplane pilots association, so I know some of your neighbors I'm sure.


av8rps,
I actually already own a place in Florida. Spent nearly 10 years down there, not a big fan of the humidity. I was just there visiting the in-laws and did visit one airpark but I think I prefer the southwest and the wide open spaces it offers. Having said this, I will keep my options open.