Settle An Argument....

[FitchUpNorth]

All right. Got in a HEATED discussion with my G5 copilot last week (I have 4 stripes, he has three, he loses. LOL) about this..... I want to hear all you old salts and young pups opinions....

If you only had ONE gauge or instrument, what would you choose?

I know my answer is without a doubt an oil pressure gauge. Everything else I can deduce from using my eyes, ears, hands and butt. Thoughts?

Denny -
Do it right 10,000 times is good. But you only have to it wrong ONCE.

[DesertFox4]

VFR- Oil pres.

IFR- speedometer -on my car driving home.

[FitchUpNorth]

Ahhhhh, the first old salt chimed in. Lol. Speedo? Nah. Long as there's guys passing me, I'm not gonna get pulled over. 😉

[Micro Mong Bldr]

I'll go with the compass. By the time the oil pressure tells you anything, the engine is usually toast anyhow. But if you have no idea which way is which in an area you're not too familiar with....

[GWright6970]

Fuel gage....

[Esser]

Well first off, assuming because you are a Capt. you know everything over an FO because he has 3 stripes is a dangerous attitude and negates the purpose of two crew (Take Korean Air Flight 801 for example) but that is another discussion.

I can bet my bottom dollar that a attitude indicator has saved more lives than an oil pressure indicator so that is my answer.

If you are in IMC or inadvertently fly into IMC an oil pressure gauge gives you no useful information to stay alive. Your butt and your brain will not give you the information you need to stay upright.

As for the fuel gauge, My watch is my fuel gauge and it is definitely more accurate than any fuel gauge I have seen in a plane.

[DesertFox4]

Fitch- I don't think we'll be much help in your argument.

[GuppyWN]

All right. Got in a HEATED discussion with my G5 copilot last week (I have 4 stripes, he has three, he loses. LOL) about this..... I want to hear all you old salts and young pups opinions....

If you only had ONE gauge or instrument, what would you choose?

I know my answer is without a doubt an oil pressure gauge. Everything else I can deduce from using my eyes, ears, hands and butt. Thoughts?

Denny -
Do it right 10,000 times is good. But you only have to it wrong ONCE.

I'd take one instrument - my HUD! Other than that I'd take AOA (VFR) and ADI (IFR).

[Kurt.A]

The one instrument I would pick would be an I pad loaded with I Fly. If limited to one gauge it would be a compass. Safely navigating to a LZ would be my priority. The eng will run for a considerable time with zero oil pressure.

[Paul Z]

The one instrument I would pick would be an I pad loaded with I Fly. If limited to one gauge it would be a compass. Safely navigating to a LZ would be my priority. The eng will run for a considerable time with zero oil pressure.

👍👍 two thumbs up never go without a back up, and an iPad is a great back up. However, oil pressure is my number one concer, I have my eyes, my gut, and piloting skills for airspeed, altemiter, etc.

[PapuaPilot]

Doesn't it matter what type of flight we are talking about? The IFR/VFR thing is an important consideration. :confused:

Does an iPad/tablet count as "one" instrument? This would be my first choice because it would give you a ton of information, but I think your question is about one instrument that is part of the plane.

Oil pressure is pretty useless information IMO. How often does oil pressure go bad, how often do engines quit? It's pretty rare if you look at it from a statistical standpoint. Actually I would eliminate all of the engine instruments; you don't need any of them to complete a flight and get the plane one the ground safely. Use your eyes, ears, hands to manage power.

Fuel quantity is not needed. Any pilot worth his salt should know how long he can fly before becoming a glider.

So, if it is IFR my vote is for an attitude indicator. Nobody can use their eyes, ears and butt to fly a plane in IMC without this information. If you keep the plane level and have a good sense of the big picture outside then you have a good chance of getting the plane to VFR and landing safely.

For VFR I would say it is the compass. I guess this is assuming you know where you are, have a paper map and remember how to use it. ;)

Are you going to let us know what your FO's choice was?:D

[SkyPirate]

VFR a compass and hopefully my FO was a good looking lady so I could claim the compass was broke and find the closest uninhibited island :)

[FitchUpNorth]

Esser, that was sarcasm my friend. 😄. Research my last name. CRM runs genetically in my veins. The stripes only mean I've been doing it longer, not necessarily better. 😉

I still vote oil pressure. Yes. Some of the answers were good. Fuel gauge, I'd have to say that's ancillary info. I know fuel burn and, if preflighted properly, I know total FOB.

Please please PLEASE, beware of the iPad though process. Yes. Tremendously helpful and informative. But what happens when the battery dies and your 12 volt charging port doesn't work? Same concept, for me at least, as an autopilot (or George as we call him in the big plane), what do you do when George packs it in? Don't let a crutch become a wheelchair.

And a HUD, although great, doesn't qualify as a gauge. Lol. No high tech stuff. Old steam gauges and analog is what the question was geared to.

As for a compass, roads generally run Cardinal directions. That and the sun and s sectional chart, no excuse to be disoriented. (IFR = I Follow Roads/Railroads)

[FitchUpNorth]

Phil,
My FO's choice was a compass. Again, using the sun and landscape, you should have an idea.

As for how often oil pressure goes bad,.... VERY rarely. But when it does, you quickly run out of options. That's the reason for my choice. Oil is the lifeblood of the motor. You can start losing it, and if no gauge, you now are a solo glider pilot before you knew anything was wrong. I know how much fuel I have. I can see the horizon. I can see roads, and have a sectional. (of course, else we wouldn't be legal ;-) ) An iPad, yes, multitudes of info but also a weak link. If it quits, now what? My ears tell me the health of the motor. My eyes and butt give me attitude (yes, I know, vertigo and all that, but even with vertigo, still usually recoverable). No excuse for being disoriented. Therefore that strikes the compass from my list. Attitutde indicator, useful, but secondary. The question was VMC flight, I think I neglected to say that.

There's no WRONG answer..... Just was curious to see what y'all thought. Land it so they don't spill their coffee.....

Denny

[PapuaPilot]

Good discussion Denny.

So your scenario is day/VFR. It makes a big difference on what I would pick. The next question I would ask is:

1. Did we launch in your G5 with a full cockpit of working instruments and had a really bad day (worse then your worst sim ride)? or . . .

2. Are we launching in something like a Kitfox or Peitenpol for a pleasure flight and aren't concerned about an MEL or the minimum instruments required by the FARs?

I would give a different answer for each scenario.;)

[TahoeTim]

my vote is for an ELT so they can find you in the woods :D:D

if any of the other instruments are really needed (showing a failure) , you are in deep doodoo and will need to be rescued anyway

[FitchUpNorth]

Phil,

LOL, boy I really neglected to give the parameters of the argument, didn't I? :)

GA flying, KF or similar. MEL, IMHO, is crap anyways unless you're flying into IMC or controlled airspace. Lift,weight,thrust,drag don't give a rat's tail about what's mounted on the panel.

Even if, theoretically, we WERE in the GV, I'd still want oil pressure. The airplane will talk to me about what it wants and/or is doing. i.e. stall buffet, overspeed, climb, descend. What I don't know is if the motors are going to stay running. Therefore, I stick with my choice. LOL

[avidflyer]

Those airplanes that fly with a 2 stroke engine don't have an oil pressure gauge. ;-) I've lived through hundreds of flights with no oil pressure gauge. That being said, most of my flying is usually within 30 miles of home and just enjoying the sights and sounds from a my "elevated" observation point. When I am flying behind a 4 stroke, it is definatly comforting to see that gauge in the green. I blew an oil cooler line on my Jabiru engine once and as the cockpit was filling with smoke, I noticed the oil pressure gauge go to zero. I did use the ASI some while trying to land in a short field without stalling. I know that one should be able to feel the plane, and sense your speed without the ASI, but when I was thinking we were on fire and the best thing to do was to get on the ground and out of the plane ASAP, I tried to use it some. Didn't STARE at it though!! :-) I need a good kick in the rear to get back to working on that plane, and maybe someday get it back into the air....... Jim Chuk

[PapuaPilot]

Denny,

Why would you care about oil pressure in the G5. You have a spare engine on the other side.:D

Yeah, MEL is a whole other issue. I have spent all of my time with single engine/IFR flying 206s, Caravans and Kodiaks over jungles and mountains. You really want your equipment working there, but there are always a few items in the MEL that seem like overkill.

[Esser]

Esser, that was sarcasm my friend. 😄. Research my last name. CRM runs genetically in my veins. The stripes only mean I've been doing it longer, not necessarily better. 😉

Sorry Fitch, sometimes the sarcasm is hard to detect. I just find there are a lot of pilots out there who aren't sarcastic etc. No harm no foul. Hope I didn't come off as too abrasive.

[SkyPirate]

I didn't see day or night for this scenario , being a heavy I was thinking altitude hence the compass , you really wouldn't need any instruments if during daylight hours, just your own personal resources and sensory perception , what if it's 12 o'clock noon, above a layer so ground visibility is limited and your right under the sun per season .... If we are going to have odds against us , let's take on worst case scenario ,.. 😁

[Peteohms]

Breathalyzer!

[HighWing]

...When I am flying behind a 4 stroke, it is definatly comforting to see that gauge in the green. I blew an oil cooler line on my Jabiru engine once and as the cockpit was filling with smoke, I noticed the oil pressure gauge go to zero. I did use the ASI some while trying to land in a short field without stalling. I know that one should be able to feel the plane, and sense your speed without the ASI, but when I was thinking we were on fire and the best thing to do was to get on the ground and out of the plane ASAP, I tried to use it some. Didn't STARE at it though!! :-) I need a good kick in the rear to get back to working on that plane, and maybe someday get it back into the air....... Jim Chuk

I guess after reading the posts, I would have to agree with Jim. Early one morning - Sept 2007 - on our way to the factory fly-in in Idaho we hit an inversion layer shortly after lift off that prompted me to keep my eyes on the engine instruments as we were in a steep climb to the 10,000 ft. we needed to cross the Sierras. Bingo my eyes caught the oil pressure needle drop to ZER0. We found a small clearing in the oak covered foothills and put it down. It destroyed the airplane but we came out OK. My wife would occasionally ask me what would have happened if our oil pressure failure had occurred a half hour later. We would have been over the barren granite boulders in the Desolation Wilderness Area at the crest of the Sierras rather than over a grassy clearing within five minutes of emergency responders. Ten minutes later and we would have been over steep pine covered canyons. I'm sure glad I had the few minutes to find the right spot.

It took months for the FAA finally going over my salvage airplane to tell me it was indeed an oil pressure problem - contamination in the oil. All that time I was concerned it might have been simply a gauge failure. I now have oil pressure plus an idiot light - each powered by different senders. If the needle drops to zero and the little light stays green, I am OK If the light changes from green to flashing red and the needle is still up, I am OK.

I am certain that one size won't fit all in this discussion especially with the differences in our routine flight areas and our flight experiences in the mix - I think I understand where Grover's compass preference comes from.

[avidflyer]

It's comparing apples to oranges, but when I was first learning how to fly in ultralights, I did some flying with a guy in SC while I was down there visiting family and friends. He had this old Quicksilver MX 2 with an old 503 on it and he flew out of a big cow pasture. Complete with cows and what they leave behind. (use your imagination) All he had for instruments was a Halls airspeed indicator which is basically a tube with a red disc in it that is pushed up by air coming in a small hole at the front/bottom of the tube. Very simple but fairly accurate in the 20 -45 MPH area. Well the second day I'm flying with him, as I'm taking off, I notice him doing something with the ASI. What had happened was the cap on top of the tube had flew out, and he tried to catch the red disc as it was going out the top. Now we had no instruments at all. I guess we had a gas gauge, cause you can see how much gas is in the semi transparent fuel tank up above your head. We ended up flying for at least an hour after that, and I made 5 takeoffs and landings just by feeling the wind in my face. What's the best instrument? Long story short, I suppose it all depends on the situation. Jim Chuk

[Slyfox]

ok, my thoughts. first off, which airplane, this is for kitfox's I will use that plane. Me myself is only vfr. so here goes. the most important, this is because I look at it all the time. is... air speed. than rpm. than oil. oil I look at just because, and I have two of them, one is pressure vary and the other is on off, in case the stupid vary type quits. air speed because that can bite you especially if the fan quits. rpm, because of my in flight adjustable it can bite you also if you are paying attention. I always fly that one during the day so a compass. not needed really, if the sun is out go by that, there should be roads, fly down to them and follow one. I generally fly local and I fly a bunch, so I know the area. if you get lost find a house land on the road go to the house. my gauges are manual, so the chance of all of them going out, pretty slim.

oh just to muddle things just a little. I've had two emergencies in each of my planes, both lost almost all power on takeoff. both times the most important thing I had was air speed. with that I was able to turn both and land back on the runway and save both airplanes, and most important myself. airspeed is my friend.