I found a new 1995 engine

[TahoeTim]

Any idea what a 1995ul is worth? no hours but completely unknown condition. Let's assume that I will take it to Elko to have the zipper big bore installed.

It probably needs the rockers, soft start, big starter, reduction drive clutch?

I am new to Rotax engines but I am guessing it's only worth $2000 or so given the risk that it might be junk.

[birddog486]

Maybe I'm missing something here but, if this is a zero time engine it should still be somewhat preserved. If it was kept out of the weather your number doesn't seem to be very realistic but it would be a super deal.

Engines in this time period that have 500-1000 hrs. on them are still going for 5-7K or more.

The rotax doesn't have the same problems with rust and corrosion that the lyc and cont engines have.

[Av8r3400]

Yes, please tell us a little more about this engine.

Birddog486 is correct about the value...

[tommg13780]

accessories have huge impact on price. Oil tank, radiator, oil cooler and especially exhaust for Kitfox application are very pricey if buying at new prices. Serial # before 4.405.189 will not accept softstart.

[WWhunter]

Concur! I would just about bet if the owner wanted to advertise it he could get closer to $10K out of then $2K. I would think a person would suspect something 'shady' if it sold for $2K. Heck, you can strip an old engine for parts and get a LOT more than $2k for less than half the parts.
If that seller is wanting to sell it for $2K and you don't want it, I bet you will get a gazillion private messages from guys wanting to know where it is. I sure am!!! Even if it isn't in running condition I would take it.

[TahoeTim]

I hear you guys but if I start at $19000 for a new 100 hp engine and subtract the overhaul cost of $12000 I found on the web, I am at $7000 before I even start buying a new exhaust. I found 28 service bulletins on a 95 engine. I am pretty sure none of them have been done.

I don't follow how this engine is worth $10000. It's only a 80hp engine. If it doesn't need a complete overhaul, I win. If it does, I lose. I should be in it less than a new engine so $2000 to $3000 puts me at only a couple thousand savings over a new engine with a slipper clutch. I also read on line that changing all the rubber hoses is $3000. A 20 year old engine, regardless of how many hours it has will need new hoses.

Where is my math wrong?

[Paul Z]

Rotax has an number of hours, and year in service rebuild requirement you may want to look into.

[Xengineguy]

I hear you guys but if I start at $19000 for a new 100 hp engine and subtract the overhaul cost of $12000 I found on the web, I am at $7000 before I even start buying a new exhaust. I found 28 service bulletins on a 95 engine. I am pretty sure none of them have been done.

I don't follow how this engine is worth $10000. It's only a 80hp engine. If it doesn't need a complete overhaul, I win. If it does, I lose. I should be in it less than a new engine so $2000 to $3000 puts me at only a couple thousand savings over a new engine with a slipper clutch. I also read on line that changing all the rubber hoses is $3000. A 20 year old engine, regardless of how many hours it has will need new hoses.

Where is my math wrong?
I don't think anyone is questioning your math,but the engine is worth more than
2000/3000.00 dollars. The engine on my plane was "new" 1995 vintage still had assy grease on the rockers. It runs great, I will do some of the ad's as I build time. But the rubber looks perfect. Yes it's 80 hp but lots of kit foxes are flying with 80 hp.
I guess it's up to you what your comfort level is?? Check out ebay and look at what a set of carbs go for! I'm sure if your really worried about getting a bad deal rotax has lots of new 912s. You could always offer it to one of us for 2000.00 I would be happy to take the risk:):):):):)

[tommg13780]

I like Mike's advice. Get the motor and address issues as they come up. I have an early 80HP with 400 hours replaced for power upgrade to 115hp. One of the O rings was dripping around the push rod tube so I replaced all 8. Upon completion I had 2 spots dripping much worse than the original leak. Spending money and time to replace satisfactory parts defeats the purpose of going with a used, or NOS engine in the first place.
I sent my functioning carbs to LEAF for rebuild at estimated cost $500. Actual came in at $1131 and they arrived home with 3 out of 4 bad floats. Gas drizzling all over the exhaust when I fired up the engine. So much for using high priced rotax certified labor. Brett wouldn't ever replace the bad floats.
I'm helping a friend transition to a Model 5 80HP serial 4.153.272 from around 1993 with 95 hours TT. All original, runs great, needs nothing except the choke doesn't fully actuate making cold start difficult. That motor is getting replaced soon and will be for sale at around $7500. The owner has a 100HP purchased new 3 years ago for a project that was wrecked.

[TahoeTim]

Thanks guys. From what I gather here, I should be safe at $5000.

As I said in the op, if I go this route I will be going with a zipper kit to bump the hp and torque up.

I will keep you guys dated on my search...

[WWhunter]

I had all the same worries as you are posting on a plane I purchased a couple of years ago. All my worries were unfounded. The engine had a few hours on it and sat in the hangar for 11 years with nothing done to it. I did put a soft start on it, had to chase down an intermitent ignition (broken wire) issue. but other than that, the engine is as good as new. I recently removed the pistons and installed the 105 HP Zipper kit on this particular engine. It literally looked like new inside. The engine sat in semi humid area (northern MN) in a hangar that was 50 feet from the lake, so basically wet climate.
I also read and worried about the hose replacement, I took most of them off and they looked like new so I didn't bother replacing them. Just me, I'm a cheapskate!!
Even at $5000 for it you are stealing it! As mentioned, I have seen mid-time engines selling for $10K. Unless the seller is some old guy that doesn't know what he has and is getting taken advantage of, that price is a steal. Just watch any of the Barnstormer or TAP ads and any engine under $10K is quickly snatched up. A new one (zero hours) even of '95 vintage, priced at this price, would not last long in my opinion. I have been in this game for 30 years and have met my share of shiesters and scheemers, buying and/or selling items, but for a new engine at that price you better move on it before someone else finds it and offers the seller market value. I know several guys would be that guy if they knew where it is. I have 3 friends that have been looking for an older low time 912 for under $10K and they have been searching for nearly a year. When one is found they either find it is already sold, a deposit on it, or they were hoping for a better deal only to lose out. All opinion!!!

[HighWing]

I would echo WHunters comments exactly. My engine was used 150 hours. All I did with it was go over the carburetors and make sure hornets weren't calling it home. You mention UL, this 80 hp engine doesn't need all the gizmos that the ULS might need. If you will be going to the Zipper, talk to Hal or Jay and find what you really need. Hoses? My opinion is that many of the Rotax recommendations stem from the Certifieds and maybe some of the LSAs flown by pilots. What I mean by this is guys who do the preflight like in my training days when the checklist said "Open the oil door, check the oil level and look for any frayed or loose wires." - all from peeking in the hinged door on the roof of the cowl.

I replaced my stator on my first UL due to the Rotax Service letter. I learned that Service Letter was issued because the Adel clamps securing the wires from the stator were a bit under sized and a flight school using the certified version of the engine was hosing down the engine compartment on a regular basis with a solvent to clean things up after numerous spills from "Pilots" opening the little door and checking the oil. It was the solvent that caused the softening of the non Tefzel Rotax wire insulation inside the "undersized" Adel clamps.

It sometimes makes me wonder about the quality of the parts Rotax uses. How often do we routinely replace all the - name the system - in our cars?
But then again, I suspect Lawyers rather than engineers write service letters.

[Av8r3400]

Not to mention every time one of the 914s used in military drones farts a little (after running at full power on a 30 hour mission at 30k feet) they write a service bulleton.

[HansLab]

However....
Rotax puts a maximum lifetime on its engines. Depending on the engine number 12 to 15 years. So worst case you have three years to burn the hours.

[Micro Mong Bldr]

So, I can buy a new engine, put it in dry storage, get it out in 12 years & it's junk? Sure sounds like a "lawyer" rule to me. That 1946 Cub I flew the other day violates that one with its old Continental about 5 1/2 times over! :D

Larry

[Av8r3400]

I've never heard of a calendar life span on a Rotax 912 engine.

If so, mine is nearing the end of it's second life, looking forward to it's third. :rolleyes:

[Paul Z]

I mentioned something about the life spand issue. Kind of stupid in my opinion, but it's called Planned Obsolesense. They want you to buy a new engine. Flying an SLSA I may be tied to that, Experimentals or ESLA may be up to the A&P or Light Sport Repairman. I'll find out more in January when I go to the LIght Sport Repairman class at Rainbow.

[Kitfoxkerry]

I bought a KF5 that was started in about 1996, completed but never really run - had a few hours when I got it and had to do the Phase I. In the beginning it was shaking off the right carb on start up or shut down so fortunately not in the air. Finally wound up having the clutch installed in the gear box and it seems to have stopped the carb from going walk-about. You might want to make sure that there is a clutch in the gear box since I don't think it became standard until considerably later.

Kerry S