Hanger

[Kurt.A]

Posting some pics of the new Hanger. This is as far as I going to go for the winter. Time to move into the garage and start working on the Fox.

[GWright6970]

Yep.... we see the "termination dust" on the ground out in front... you got a lot done... looks great!

[Icefox]

Your "toy box" looks great. :)

[Paul Z]

I like the rod on the left. Need to pull her out and post a couple of pictures. :D

[beeryboats]

That is truly awesome! I have a big barn but none of the doors are wide enough to get her out with the wings unfolded. I looked into hiring a company to give me some material specs to build a header and supports, but they were stupid expensive for just a piece of paper. I was also thinking of a "lean to" a bit smaller than your hangar, but once again, I get humbled by span width and load numbers. I would love to have a place I can keep her out of the rain and hail during the summer with the wings out and locked ready to go when I get home from work. I was thinking pre-fab joists about 40' wide...
Jay

[Kurt.A]

I like the rod on the left. Need to pull her out and post a couple of pictures. :D

It's a very hairy ride! 545 CUIN stroker, solid lifter cam, 7 lbs of boost, fuel injected, should be around 850 HP, all steel body 1928 Ford, lots of fun.

[Paul Z]

I want 850 HP in my Kitfox, then it would be a KickB * * T. Oh sorry I'm a life long gear head!

[Kurt.A]

Thanks for all the Kudo's guy's. Yes it is a 40 ft span on the inside. Beams are not engineered but are built very strong. Pretty much solid 24 inches deep X 6 1/2 thick with laminated 2X10 and OSB glued and screwed together. I have a string stretched across all three beams to keep an eye on things as the snow load comes.

[Kurt.A]

I want 850 HP in my Kitfox, then it would be a KickB * * T. Oh sorry I'm a life long gear head!

I will be turboing mine and fuel injecting it as well. Looking for about 140 HP out of the 80 horse stocker. Should be able to take off like a Harrier. :D

[HighWing]

Kurt,
Your hangar appears to be about the same dimensions as mine. The major difference in the roof structure is your center beam. It divides the weight of your roof by three rather than my two. Mine has a typical gable roof with the ridge running side to side. Half the roof weight at the span is on the back wall and half is the over the door beam - also laminated wood.

I have a bit of permanent sag that gets worse as the air dries in summer and levels out a bit as the air re-humidifies during winter - not getting worse from year to year.

The door is two tall typical garage doors with a movable center post - seen at the right in the first image. The post is on a track and moves to the right after pulling a pin and rotating it rearward to disconnect the locking pins at the top. This sometimes is a challenge in summer as the post will scrape the floor during the unlatching.

[beeryboats]

Hi Lowell!
That's a lot like my dad's place up at Clear Lake. He's done so much work to get his two door hangar to work smoothly. If my barn was attached to the house like your hangar, my wife would never see me. That gives me an idea. She may like that idea. I'll show her the photos tonight...

Did you get your brake bleed tool back from me? I'm still waiting to get the engine down to Louisville for o/h.
Jay

[beeryboats]

Thanks for all the Kudo's guy's. Yes it is a 40 ft span on the inside. Beams are not engineered but are built very strong. Pretty much solid 24 inches deep X 6 1/2 thick with laminated 2X10 and OSB glued and screwed together. I have a string stretched across all three beams to keep an eye on things as the snow load comes.

Kurt, can you do a quick sketch of how you laid all that up and take a pic with your phone so you could email it to me? I'll PM my email to you right now.
Jay

[SkySteve]

Kurt,
Put the drawing and photo on this thread so the rest of us can see it.

[HighWing]

Hi Lowell!
That's a lot like my dad's place up at Clear Lake. He's done so much work to get his two door hangar to work smoothly. If my barn was attached to the house like your hangar, my wife would never see me. That gives me an idea. She may like that idea. I'll show her the photos tonight...

Did you get your brake bleed tool back from me? I'm still waiting to get the engine down to Louisville for o/h.
Jay

Jay,
I do live out there. When it is time for lunch or dinner, she will either call on the cell phone or flash the hangar lights on and off.

Did get he brake bleed tool.

[Kurt.A]

Too late tonight to post a drawing and I have no photo's of how they are laminated. Looking on the end of the beam you will see that there is 3 2X10's laminated with 7/16" OSB between each 2X10 in the top portion of the beam. Each lamination is glued with PL400 construction adhesive and screwed together. The bottom half of the beam is done exactly the same as the top portion so you end up with 3) 2X10's on edge directly above 3) more 2X10's on edge. There is also a 2X6 top plate and bottom plate laid flat against the 2X10's on edge. The posts are 4) 2X6's glued and screwed together. Hope that helps guy's

[KFfan]

Looks to be a nicely engineered structure. Your slide-in camper looks, even the colors, like a 10 footer I used to have. It was on a 1 ton dually crew cab Chevy. We had some great family vacations with that.

[Av8r_Sed]

Hi Kurt,
I'm an engineer, but not a structural guy, so take this with several grains of salt. Looking at the design and your description of the beam construction I would have serious concerns about the structure taking the full snow load.

I would suggest hiring a structural engineer to do the calcs to prove your design. If you're not going to do that, I'd install center posts under your beams to help handle the load during the snow season.

[Paul Z]

I was looking at a home at an Airpark in Texas that had that type of door., two garage doors with a moveable center post. When we were opening with no issues. In trying to close it, several of the wheels ran out of the track on the far right side and I was sure glad it jammed from the weight. I Damned near had the garage door on my head.

[Danzer1]

I agree with Paul,

I'm an engineer too, mechanical not structural though and not trying to rain on anyone's parade but:

Consideration for those reading: IF there were an incident and you have insurance on the contents, an insurance company MAY NOT provide coverage without a building inspector sign off and/or a structural engineers approved design.

Concerns would include - the stagger of the 2/10's, OSB joints and 2/6 plates. Internal lamination of the OSB on the top and lower 2/10's separately. External laminations of OSB appear that they could be the only "support" creating the beam depth (strength) - 7/8 of an inch (total) of OSB for a 40 foot span.

I'd venture to guess up there the design snow load is in excess of 50lb/s.f. which by the looks of it, with a minimal slope (no snow slip off) the design snow load total for that roof could be in excess of 25 tons, plus the weight of the roof itself.

Just food for thought.

Greg

[Kurt.A]

It is awesome having some engineers on site with us to help us along.
Paul/Greg,
I have no idea what the design snow load is for our area. but at any one time during mid winter we will typically have 1-2 ft of snow on the ground. The weight of which really varies with moisture density more so than the visual amount of snow.
As far as the joints in the laminations all joints are spaced no less than 4 ft away from one another. The internal OSB laminations are also full depth of the beam less the top and bottom 2X6 plates.
I have considered putting in removable center posts and will be monitoring the beam flex as the snow load comes on. If the flex becomes more than an inch the posts will be going in along with screw jacks to level things back up.
The pitch is the same as our hay shed and snow slip occurs all winter long on it. Ambient temperature is the deciding factor here. -20 C snow never slips, -2 C snow never stops sliping.
All excellent points to be brought up for clarification!

[beeryboats]

Let me toss this out there. Are the pre made trusses, sold by Menards, Lowes, etc, made to be used for an open full span roof? In other words, would a series of 40' trusses spaced 24" on center work if supported by some well built walls on three sides? The reason I ask is that is exactly how my barn is made. But it is only 30' wide.

[kitfoxnick]

Let me toss this out there. Are the pre made trusses, sold by Menards, Lowes, etc, made to be used for an open full span roof? In other words, would a series of 40' trusses spaced 24" on center work if supported by some well built walls on three sides? The reason I ask is that is exactly how my barn is made. But it is only 30' wide.

That's how mine is built. I used a stock 4' on center pole barn truss and metal roof with 2 x 4 purlins. Around here a 40' 5/12 pitch stock pole barn truss are around $125.00. I have $2500 total in my hangar materials with no doors. The pole barn suppliers will cut the metal to whatever length you want. I laminated two truss on the open end to support a future door.

I'll see if I can dig out a pic.

[Av8r_Sed]

Kurt,
The ground snow load for your area appears to be 3.0 kPa (63 psf) from the following document:
http://www.cariboord.bc.ca/uploads/857/Building_Permits-_Plans-_and_Inspections_Overview-pdf

You can then plug this and other data regarding your roof into an online calculator: http://www.had2know.com/househome/roof-snow-load-calculator.html

Using some assumptions about your roof and the ground snow load I get an estimate of 37 psf snow load for your roof. If your roof was 40' x 40' that would give a load of 59,200 lbs. It looks like each of your beams could be supporting as much as 10 tons.

[Kurt.A]

Kurt,
The ground snow load for your area appears to be 3.0 kPa (63 psf) from the following document:
http://www.cariboord.bc.ca/uploads/857/Building_Permits-_Plans-_and_Inspections_Overview-pdf

You can then plug this and other data regarding your roof into an online calculator: http://www.had2know.com/househome/roof-snow-load-calculator.html

Using some assumptions about your roof and the ground snow load I get an estimate of 37 psf snow load for your roof. If your roof was 40' x 40' that would give a load of 59,200 lbs. It looks like each of your beams could be supporting as much as 10 tons.


Paul,
I had a look at the document and the online calculator. My location is Southern Cariboo District, so the snow load goes to 57 PSF. The area of the roof is 1176 sqft (42 X 28 ft)with a 22 deg pitch. I inputted all the other details from my hanger and area into the calculator and came up with a total Max snow load of 48,180 lbs. How do I calculate the dispersal of the load? My guess at that one would be 1/2 of the load for the beams, with the other 1/2 being carried by the perimeter posts and walls. If that assumption is correct then the 2 beams would be sharing 25,000 lbs. at Max. or 12,500 lbs. each. Now that we have these numbers can the design of the beams carry this load?

[Av8r_Sed]

OK, I think you have a good estimate for the numbers. This is where you need the structural guy to look at the beam design. Most architects have a go to structural engineer so they're not too hard to find.

[Danzer1]

Roughly speaking - the back wall and front beam each carry 25% of the load and the center beam 50%. The loads you mention are only the snow loads plus the weight of the roof itself.

Also important are the size of the joists, their spacing and length of span.

Just a thought on the string deflection measuring - I would use good mono-filiment fishing line. Most regular string will not get taught enough to be straight before breaking.

Greg

[avidflyer]

If it was me, and I had any doubts about the roof, I would make up some 4"X4" posts that could be stood up under the beams to help carry the load. Maybe one post for the open end, and 2 posts for the middle beam. Use them if you are expecting a big snowstorm, and clear the snow off the roof when it starts to pile up too deep. I made a tool for pushing the snow off my hanger when it gets to deep, I used some 1 1/2" diameter wood handrail about 18' long and made a blade out of aluminum about 32" wide that fits on one end of the handle. I can stand up near the middle of the roof and push the snow down and off the edge of the roof fairly easy. My hangar is 40' wide and 42' deep. Snow slides fairly easy on a metal roof. Jim Chuk

[beeryboats]

It sounds like I have the wife on board with building a hangar. We will try and get into Menards this weekend to use their computer plan builder to see what the materials would cost. It's a long term project, but at least I've been able to keep it on the table. I still need to get it flying again before I can start building a hangar....
Jay

[kitfoxnick]

http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah229/foxflyer2/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7230bdcd.jpg (http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/foxflyer2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7230bdcd.jpg.html)

Here is my hillbilly hangar