Experimental Registration

[flypuck]

Hey Everyone,
A Kitfox just came up for sale that I'm interested in but the owner is going to de-certify it before selling.
Any chance of getting it re-certified after purchase?

Thanks,
Doug

[Dick B in KY]

Are you sure about your wording? The owner may deregister the aircraft, but only the FAA can certify or decertify it.

Dick B

[flypuck]

Thanks for the reply Dick.
He used the term "de-certify". I'll call him and verify this.
Do you think it's feasible buy and fly it legally in either case?

[Av8r_Sed]

There's a somewhat aged, but informative series of articles on EAA's website relating to this. There are no clear answers as it comes down to our legal system, especially in the state where the transaction happens.

http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/next-steps-after-plane-is-built/selling-and-buying-articles/part-6-selling-a-homebuilt-the-final-answer

I would think that the seller is expecting to sell the parts, not an aircraft. I'm not sure how a purchaser could then reassemble the parts and certify it. I know people can certify a homebuilt created from parts, but this seems to be a different case.

[N981MS]

Here is a link to a post by a very knowledgeable and well known DAR. See post #4.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=69236&highlight=airworthiness+certificate

[Dave S]

Doug,

I think the sale ad says "....will be decertified...." whatever that means; however, if the craft is currently registered; your best bet is to call the person as you have decided and find out what what the deal is.

There are situations where a seller of an experimental aircraft may decide to part out or otherwise cause an aircraft to no longer be an aircraft to control liability particularily in the case of a low value machine. Don't know if that is the case or not but calling the person and finding out what is up is the way to go.

Dave S

[flypuck]

Thanks for chiming in everyone. I tried calling him but got voicemail. I'll keep plugging.....

[flypuck]

Called the seller and the plane sold within 2 hours. Wow.
He is surrendering the AW cert for liability reasons.
I called the local FSDO and was told it "MAY" be possible to get it registered.
I'll keep looking.
Thanks everone...

[N981MS]

I am sure glad I did not buy it if the AW certificate has been surrendered.

[flypuck]

This was clearly stated in the ad and he was very up front about it.
He basically sold it for half of what it is worth with the AW cert.

[dcsfoto]

if it is sold and has the data plate : all you need to do is get a Maintenance
(FSDO ) DAR to issue a replacement A/W cert with limitations.

if the data plate is gone : get approval to replace, the info is on the
FAA registration site, then get replacement A/W cert.

that is only if it is not shown in the FAA records as destroyed.

[Danzer1]

Okay, I've read this thread a few times and the inference here may give a few readers a distorted perception.

That being; if you surrender the AWC, the plane is worth much less and you reduce your liability.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney so this is not legal advice, just my opinion as an engineer that is familiar with liability issues. It is presented just for the readers further investigation and consideration.

Surrendering the AWC does not necessarily mean the aircraft is not airworthy - it just can't be flown. The original builder will always be listed with the FAA as the original builder even if a new AWC is issued. So how would this procedure limit the original builders liability? In my view, it wouldn't.

So, if true, why would the aircraft be worth half as much? In my view, it wouldn't be. The only reduced value would be in the time and cost spent reapplying for and obtaining a reissued AWC.

To me, the reduced value in purchasing an EAB is; any new owner can't obtain a maintenance/repairmans cert. for the aircraft (without great difficulty).

Food for thought, Greg

[Av8r_Sed]

Greg,
My opinion is you wouldn't likely obtain a new airworthiness certificate. You wouldn't have a bill of sale, nor builders documentation required to be able to apply for a special airworthiness certificate.

What would be your approach to this?

[Danzer1]

Paul,

They never stated there was no bill of sale and no builder documentation provided.

I can not imagine buying any vehicle without a bill of sale proving cash spent - particularly for sales and use tax purposes.

Also can't fathom buying any EAB without any build documentation.

But those were assumed on my part and may be wrong. I'm sure there could be plenty of variables.

Greg

[Av8r_Sed]

We're both making wide assumptions, but if a person were trying to limit their liability by surrendering the AWC, i doubt they'd provide a BOS (at least for an aircraft) or builder's logs.

If it were me, trying to avoid ongoing liability, I wouldn't sell anything I'd built. I'd sell the engine, fuselage, instruments but not the wings, control surfaces, etc.

In real life, I couldn't part out my baby so I'd probably sell it whole and hope it goes well for future owners.