I'm an OFFICIAL KITFOX OWNER!

[WWhunter]

Well, it has been delivered...MY Kitfox. I am excited, well sort of. I purchased an uncompleted 1993 KF IV-1200 from a super nice guy that had it advertised on here. He delivered it all the way up here to northern MN from IL last night. Can't say how much I appreciated dealing with Mike. We unloaded it into my hangar during heavy snowfall and in the dark. Bitter cold this morning so about all I was able to do is look at it and think of the job ahead of me to get it finished and flying.
So, who has an abbreviated list of everything that needs to be updated to a 1993 vintage Kitfox IV with a Rotax 912? Lemme see, first thing, ship the otor off to Hal for the 16xxcc upgrade...;)

[Av8r3400]

Congrats on the acquisition!

Suggestion List:

Grove Gear, wheels and brakes
Trim tab in the elevator
Molded windshield and bubble doors
Matco tailwheel



(I'd wait on the motor upgrade until you are ready to install it…)

[WWhunter]

Motor is already installed. It has 4 hrs. test running on it. :)

I do know of another Kitfox for sale that I was thinking of buying but to be honest it is really only good for parts. It has the Grove gear so maybe I could buy the whole thing and break even if I parted it out. Most of the other parts though are either dented (flapperons) or so shoddily constructed I am wondering if they would have any salvage value. The construction on it is some of the worst I have ever seen. Seriously!! I wonder who ever dared fly it.

I do have a tailwheel I removed from an S-7 RANS. WOuld it be a better TW than the Maule? It looks like a plastic wheel off a shopping cart. I removed it from the RANS due to the noise it resonated through the fuselage when landing. Darn thing made it sound like the plane was being bombarded with marbles!!

Plane is already covered so would this make it difficult to install the elevator trim?

Doors are already done and installed as is the windshield but Mike gave me another sheet of Lexan for a new windshield since the original is cracking in the upper corners. I am thinking the suggestion of a premolded might be a much better fix. Are the bubble doors something different? The doors on it already are bowed outward. Guess I need to check into that a little more.
Thanks!!

[Av8r3400]

I didn't know it was that far along… :)

IMO, any tailwheel is better than the Maul. A new Matco (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/matcoT8.php) is less than $250 for a 8" pneumatic tired wheel.

Yes some covering work would be needed to add the tab to the elevator. I would still consider it… (But that's just me.)

The bubble doors add another ~2-3" of elbow room. The W/S and Doors are available through Kitfox

[DesertFox4]

Congrats WWhunter.

[Dave S]

Keith,

Any idea what kind of heater you will be using? I know the IV's have a few more open spaces; but, I found on our later model (S7) that giving some attention to blocking off as many pneumonia holes as possible for winter operation made the craft quite comfortable in cold weather flying....I ended up instaling a couple SCAT tubes to direct some warm air to the windshield from the heat exchanger.

Congratulations on your purchase....let the fun begin!

Sincerely,

Dave S
KF7 Trigear
912ULS Warp Drive
St Paul, Minnesnowta

[WWhunter]

Dave,
I will have to double check but I think there are 2 'heater core' type heaters already installed. I may be thinking of another KF I had looked at but it seems that there is one on each side of the plane installed under the panel. If they are there I had planned on cutting a couple of vents for defrosting of the windshield also. This from a previous experience of freezing my face everytime I flew.

It was single digits here yesterday morning so I know your concern about getting heat into the cabin.

I remember my Champ being rather cold in the winter, I stuffed rags into places I didn't even know existed!!! That old plane was DRAFTY!!! Besides the fact that the very front/bottom of the winshield was not sealed so I always had an arctic blast on my face.

[WWhunter]

It's dirty but I think it has potential. Thanks Av8r3400 for the info on how to attach pictures. :)

[HighWing]

Congratulations on the find. I feel a strong connection on the vintage as my first IV was a 1993. I purchased from Denney and received delivery from Skystar. SN334008

Thoughts on upgrades: It will depend on what your plans are for the airplane. I concur with the elevator trim tab. It will add a pound or two to the aft end. Not hard to do, takes some time, but once done it will yield benefits forever - no looking back! I would go with the Home Builders Special tailwheel - light weight and quiet. I would consider very carefully window glass and landing gear. The acrylic is probably three times the weight of the Polycarbonate and the Grove Gear will weigh almost three times the weight of your stock gear legs. No real opinion on wheels or brakes except I have had near perfect experience with the original Matco and the 8 inch wheels. The near perfect has to do with the original vintage pads on the Matco. They will fail for sure in the first few hours. They just crack, "brake" up and fall out. I felt rather stupid when the pads failed on the 1992 IV I recently finished on a flight to Arizona after having the same experience on the 1993 IV. On the flight to Arizona it was Hal that saved the day. Now I refer to him as MacGyver. If you decide to stay with the Matco's replacing the brake pads is a MUST do. For me then it was smooth sailing for nine years on those brakes.

One of Hal's buddies, Mark, built an early IV that weighed 604 lbs. Mine at the time with the Grove gear plus lots of creature comforts weighed exactly 100 pounds more - 704 lbs. That's a lot of ounces here and there - Just saying....

[Paul Z]

Remember when you clean the plea use a non ammonia cleaner, Sam's & Costco's both sell an aerosol spray cleaner that works well. I use it to clean the leading edges, doors, turtle deck cover, and windscreen. It works really great!

[t j]

Bubble doors and preformed windshield are Acrylic. Very fragile and easy to crack when installing. heavy, and expensive. On the other hand, they don't scratch nearly as easy as lexan. With the current windshield to use as a pattern, fabricating and installing a new lexan one is a one day job.

The photos look like it is ready, or nearly ready to fly. I would check the main wheel alignment before flying. http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?p=17382&highlight=alignment#post17382

[WWhunter]

Thanks tj! Mike, the seller provided me with a pice of lexan for a new windshield. He had attempted to use a heavier piece than the factory one in hopes it would be better. Unfortunately the heavier piece started cracking in the curved area. I will use the piece he provided in my first attempt. Buying this project really doesn't leave much funds available for upgrades at the moment. I am just hoping to get it flying and then eventually upgrade it.

I actually bought this for my son and it will be up to him wether or not he wants to acquire it or if I will just keep it myself. I hate to pour money into it that will not be recouped. ;)

Thanks for the link on alignment!!

[kitfoxnick]

My opinion (it's worth what you pay for it) for the type of flying I do,keeping up with Super Cubs.
1. vg's. I like Pacific Northwest Aero set 3.75" aft of leading edge
2. New ethanol resistant tanks from Kitfox. The tanks of this vintage have problems.
3. Grove gear
4. 26" Airstreaks I run mine at about 3psi
5. A new prop.
6. Gap seal the tail feathers
7. New tail wheel. Matco has a nice tailwheel that is a Carlisle lawn mower deck tire that works well.

Keep it light everything I mentioned adds weight. My model 4 is heavier than I like at 680lbs. The closer to 600lbs the more fun.

[WWhunter]

Nick,
Thanks! I have been warned about the fuel tanks and caled the factory before buying the plane so I know it is going to cost me a $1,000 for that little upgrade. :( Sucks since the tanks in it have never been used other than test run.

VG's, that is one item I will install right away since they are cheap and easy to do. Thanks for the reminder since I really had forgotten about them.

The Grove gear will definitely have to wait. Avidflyer reccommended modifying the seat truss for the bungie gear and I will do that until I can get the Grove gear.

26" Airstreaks..unfortunately I sold mine and bought a set of the 29's. To be honest I wish I would have stayed with the 26's since they are really the perfect size for these planes. I have the 29's on my S7 RANS. I do have a set of like new, 26" GY tundra tires. They are heavier and stiffer but since they are paid for I will use them. For now I will keep the Nanco tires and wheels on the plane.

New prop...., it has the GSC but I do have a two-blade Warp Drive Taper tip I removed from the RANS that I can put on the KF. I think it is 70" and will double check. Is yours the 2 or 3 blade? I can't remember.

Gap seal...easy peasy!!

Tailwheel....I have the old Matco I removed from the RANS but it is a little one. Looks like a plastic shopping cart wheel. I will look into the one you suggest.

Hey, can I just come borrow all these parts off your? ;) Hope to meet up again and pose a bunch of questions if you don't mind.

[Paul Z]

Talk to John McBean I believe he will say the Vortex Generators are not worth the Time, or the Money. He told me he plans on removing them from his plane. He had put them on because a customer insisted they helped.

[kitfoxnick]

Paul I don't want to get in a big debate about vg's. I bought my vg's thru Kitfox and they are the Pacific Northwest aero. After reading the instructions I called and talked to the owner at Pacific Northwest Aero and we came to realization that he had not accounted for the flaperon in the chord of the wing. Setting the vg's at 3.75 back from the leading edge, using a framing square, I found to be the sweat spot. To me it is the biggest improvement I've made to my plane. I didn't see a huge drop in stall speed, maybe a knot or two. At slow speeds the plane does not get mushy at all. It has full crisp controls all the way to the stall, and once stalled you can hold the stick full back, and all she does is lightly buck in a 500' per min decent until you let the stick slightly forward. Spinning the plane is hard to do with the vgs. Now you have to stall the plane and aggressively kick the rudder all the way across to get it to spin. It took four good try's before I actually got her to spin. Before just stall it uncoordinated and she would spin.

[WWhunter]

PaulZ, Hmm, that surprises me. I am with Nick on the benefits of VG's. I have had them on two different planes and they sure made a difference on those planes. The Champ I had was nearly stall proof with them installed. My instructor, who was actually instructing my son for his PPL, had to do something similar to a hammerhead to get it to break. As Nick stated, you could hold the stick in your lap and as long as you kept your feet busy on the rudder it would just mush along. Sort of fun actually. :)

I put them on my S7 RANS and it definitely helped with low speed controlability. That plane wanted to 'drop like a rock' when approaching stall speed. Before the VG's it was very hard to 3-point without dropping it onto the runway. After I installed the VG's the feel on the stick was much more solid and controlable. I also put shelving paper in the elevator gap and that improved the feel even more.

I have read where VG's are a waste of money for certain wing designs, mainly the Cessna wing. I think they do work well on most STOL type planes and I will more than likely be putting them on this KF.

They are a cheap mod. I bought the STOLSPEED brand and if I remember correctly the cost was roughly $100. Cheap for what they do. Or go cheaper yet and get the AirWave brand for a whopping $50!

[Paul Z]

I would consider trying the VGs and Gap seals, but I can't because I have a SLSA.

I have been considering having my plane rectified as a ELSA, but there are a lot of downsides, and on the flip side there are a lot of upsides. Either way with the SLSA Repairman Certificate I can do my own repairs.

[kitfoxnick]

On an experimental anyone can do their own repairs. Just can't sign the annual. You need the repairmen certificate or an A&P.

[Danzer1]

On an experimental anyone can do their own repairs. Just can't sign the annual. You need the repairmen certificate or an A&P.

Yes - true on EAB, but not to be confused with ELSA or SLSA. On those there are two types of repairmans cerificates - inspection and maintenance.

If you only have an ELSA or SLSA inspection repairmans certificate - you can only sign off on your own annual. You can only do "maintenance" that is outlined in the owners manual as authorized by the aircraft manufacturer.

If you hold a ELSA or SLSA maintenance repairmans certificate, you can do all of your own maintenance/repair.

If you hold neither, then you need an A&P.

This FAA document explains the requirements for both: http://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac%2065-32a.pdf

Modifications however are a completely different animal on both ELSA and SLSA.

[kitfoxnick]

Your right Danzer, as Paul already has his SLSA maintenance repairmans certificate he can still work on his ELSA.

[Danzer1]

Agree'd - just thought it worth clarifying for others that may not realize the differences between the three.

[Paul Z]

An interesting article on changing from an SLSA to ESLA.

Definitely some advantages to going ESLA.

http://www.newplane.com/amd_downloads/SLSA%20to%20ELSA.pdf