Paper chart vs iPad for VFR

[beeryboats]

The engine is out waiting to go in for overhaul, so I'm dreaming about flying again. I'm a private pilot but not current. Lots of things have changed over the years. I don't plan any great journeys, just local flights and $100 Burgers. What would be better, my old school paper charts or cough up some $$ for one of the new electronic charts services for my new iPad? From what I understand, the new electronic charts show current weather as well as flight planning? Would an instructor expect me to have paper or an iPad?

[N981MS]

I fly IFR and VFR with Foreflight on the iPad and would not do it any other way. Awesome for flight planning. ALL the charts in the country for 70$ a year. Airport info.

Get an iPad with the 3G or 4G cellular chip. I think they call it wifi plus 4g. You do not have to activate cell service but only the ones with the cellular capability have built in GPS.

Weather on the iPad in the air requires a separate ads-b receiver. I have not played with this yet but some have and swear by it. Weather on the ground is shown on your sectional and is received via wifi or cell service data plan.

I am a huge fan.

[kmach]

Hi,
I went to the ipad with foreflight last fall, no more trying to unfold a map in the cockpit!
Flight planning is easy and all info in one place.

You might need to do some navigation plotting on a paper map for flight tests and such, you will need to check with your flight training facility.

[SWeidemann]

I vote for an IPad Mini with Foreflight. Last 1000 mile trip to Sun N Fun I took WAC charts, a bunch of Sectionals & a few Terminal charts. I don't remember opening any of the paper charts. For redundancy I have Foreflight on my IPhone too and a Garmin 196. I think paperless is also all that is required.

Skot

[Paul Z]

I love my iPad i bought it strictly for the ForeFlight app makes flying more enjoyable, and you can get your charts in a quick evening download. :D

[PapuaPilot]

Does anyone use Garmin Pilot Pro instead of Foreflight? I did a 30 day trail and found it as good or better that Foreflight. The price is pretty much the same.

[airlina]

I have both paper and a tablet with the anywhere map app. when you least expect it your electronic gizmo will fail and with no backup . The line drawn on your paper sectional will never fail. Bruce N199CL

[SWeidemann]

Jim,

Garmin should be an excellent choice as well. I tried the download trial and liked it but so many (including a lot of flight instructors) are using Foreflight, I went with what I look at as the mainstream App,(Foreflight). Garmin should have good support.

Skot

[KFfan]

At the outset, I am a frugal (cheap) individual.

As an alternative to iAnything devices, there is an Android application that has me blown away. It is Avare and is installed on 3 devices I own. I paid less than $200 for each of these devices and Avare runs on them all.
1. A LG2 mobile phone
2. A 8" Samsung Tab8
3. A 10" Acer Iconia A3

Avare is a totally free application and updates are free. Chart downloads are free. If you run android devices I suggest you try it and see if it works for you. Did I say it is FREE? :) It has been developed and is very actively maintained by experienced, active pilots. Many are commercial certificated. There is a forum where users may offer suggestions, request changes/additions and report any anomalies. I am a student at this time and am not intending to use it during this phase. This application and the hardware it runs on are NOT certified. I do think it is an excellent backup to paper in the cockpit. ADS-B in is also supported

FWIW

[SkySteve]

Great discussion. I have heard good things about Foreflight from many sources. My question is "what size iPad?" I'm thinking of the small one (I think 7"). Is that large enough or should a guy really for with the full size?

[Danh]

I use Garmin Pilot and an very happy with it, weather, current upto date airport information, TFR's, trip planning and SynVis are all good.
It's also handy to have here on my desk to weather watch.

[cubtractor]

I've been using the Ipad mini with Foreflight with a mount for the instrument panel. It has worked great so far even with the sun on it. There is a picture in my albums.

[Dravenelle]

i run navigation pro and i love it is only 50$
and you can buy only chart what you need

i use my iphone 5 but is small .. ipad mini is my next
gif for christmas

David

[Av8r_Sed]

I've got my iPad mini mounted on the panel with a Ram Mount X-grip holder. Stratus 2 ADSB receiver Velcro's to a small shelf I installed above the overhead tubes. Bluetooth connection from the iPad to my Lightspeed Zulu2 headset for Foreflight runway alerts as well as music. It's a great setup. A little hard to read airport frequencies across the cockpit due to my middle aged eyes, but I think it's perfect for my flying.

I do carry current charts for my area as a backup - you never know when the software gods will frown down upon you.

[Esser]

After flying both full size and mini, I recommend getting the mini. It is large enough and not too cumbersome in the cockpit. Go to a store and play with both of them. I think you will find handling the mini nicer.

I highly recommend getting foreflight as well. The price of the ipad will be paid for quickly as charts aren't cheap and they go out of date. I have foreflight on my phone as a back up incase my ipad fails. To date, no failures.

[N981MS]

I forgot to mention before. You can put Foreflight on 2 ipads and 1 iphone with one subscription.

[avidflyer]

I have a Nexus 7 with the Avare software on it. I like it. New Nexus 7 was $149 with free shipping on ebay, so that's all I had to spend. Jim Chuk

[Danh]

I have the full size iPad 2 it's real too big to mount in the Cherokee I have a Ram mount and suction cup to the windshield but it blocks the radio/gps so I find because of the size I only use it on ocassion, thinking about a mini with a yoke mount

[Paul Z]

I have an IPad Air full size put it on the floor right of my right leg pick it up when needed, or I set it on the passenger seat, no problems.

[n85ae]

I fly with a sectional on my knee, and a E-6B, a plotter, and pencil, I quit
using GPS about 5-6 years ago and have enjoyed flying a whole bunch more.
I do have a Garmin GNC-250XL in the panel, but it's my backup for the
sectional just in case it fails in flight ...

Truth be told, I switched over when one day I thought to myself that I was
getting lazy with the GPS, so I turned it off and tried to make way home
and discovered quickly that my basic navigation skills were poor.

After that I was determined to always know exactly where I was on the
map, and not on the panel. So I switched over to the Old Fashioned way
and haven't regretted it one bit.

Jeff

[KFfan]

*n85ae

I like the attitude...:cool:

[n85ae]

I think pencil and paper navigation is an art, whereas GPS operation is
simply a skill. To me it is much more rewarding. To make the experience
complete I do have an instrument rating, so it's not like I don't know how
to turn knobs, and push buttons ...

Jeff

[Dorsal]

I guess this is another example of to each their own. I have found flying more fun and relaxing after switching to GPS. I frequently fly with no particular destination in mind, with GPS I always know where I am with out much effort. I can effectively avoid airspace issues and TFRs are always current. I have at least one (sometimes 2) backups for the GPS and I also carry a chart but that doesn't get much use. I can still navigate with a chart and an E6B but that is not what I enjoy about flying. Some art is lost, some art is gained but in the end flying is still a blast whatever your reasons.

[n85ae]

That's the usual reaction these days, so not a surprise really. Same reason
you can get great deals on old fashioned nav gear on Ebay :)

Jeff

[WWhunter]

I cover nearly every spectrum that has been mentioned. Use my GPS sometimes, tablet sometimes, and nothing most of the time. :) I usually do as others, take off with no idea where I am going. I just go...try to always keep my bearing and see if I can make it back without any electronic gizmos. Yesterday I did just that. Took off and headed north, pretty soon I was within sight of the Canadian border so I turned west and then back south. 2.5 hours later I was back home.

I'm a cheap b@stard also and use a Samsung Galaxy with Avare. Like the previous poster states..it's free! Only thing I would do over is buy a smaller size. a 7" would be better than the 10" as it is just too big and gets in the way.

[n85ae]

I had a really great opportunity about ten years ago to go along flying from
time to time with an old retired 747 Captain, who had spent time flying C-46's
over the Hump into China during WWII. Being that he was around 80+ his wife
would not let him go flying without another pilot in the plane, so I got the
great opportunity to be his backup pilot in an old Piper Archer.

One thing he told me, and I have always stuck to is - Never fly unless you
know where you're going, and what you're going to do there, and have some
sort of a minimal plan how you're going to do it. Cause if you don't you're
flying on borrowed time.

I never flew with him, where he didn't brief the flight ahead of time, even if
it was just a 30 minutes look around the local area.

Jeff

[beeryboats]

Neat story Jeff. I'm like you as I would prefer a paper chart. I just didn't want to appear like a fool showing up for refresher training for my long overdue check ride with paper and plotter.

However, I can spend lots of time on Google maps/earth looking for good motorcycle roads and grass strips. I'm competent with my ipad but sometimes it can be difficult to read in bright sunlight. So I don't know how it will work in my Kitfox.
Jay

[av8rps]

This has been a great thread. I am completely torn however, as I like to use modern technology, but yet like to know I am staying up to date and capable with the old system of maps/charts.

But based on what I'm learning here, I've decided to take the next step and try some of these different programs on my notepad. I'm pretty spoiled with what has been the extremely reliable Garmin -96 series Gps (that I like to build right into my panel). But it might be time to start thinking about getting a start on my poor mans glass panel :rolleyes:

However, I really admire Jeff's position and will at least occasionally turn off my gizmos and use my finger on the map just to prove I can still do that effectively. ;)

Also, isn't it a requirement to carry current sectionals for the area you are flying in? I seem to recall that was.

Paul

[N981MS]

Also, isn't it a requirement to carry current sectionals for the area you are flying in? I seem to recall that was.

I think the actual requirement is that you have ALL of the relevant information to complete the flight safely.

Wise to do but no actual requirement for a map if you can remember everything on it to the satisfaction of the investigator or ramp check guy after the fact.

That being said the iPad with any of these apps IS a map. And it is much easier to keep current and use. I would think more people fly with current charts now than ever before because of these devices. I am sure no one on this forum but me has ever flown with an out of date sectional:cool:.

Every month when new maps are available for download a little red circle with the number of available downloads shows up. 3 clicks on the iPad and they are downloading. 3 clicks on the phone and they download there too.

I now fly with 2 copies of current charts. Always. Easy peasy. If you do not trust the electrons to keep flowing in a device. Carry 2 or 3. Most of these apps with one subscription can be on 2 or 3 devices including a phone which you most likely have with you anyway. I also still carry a paper sectional for my area but its out of date:eek:.
Oh yeah, if you get the right one it is a back up to your GPS too. Some gadgets are just gadgets. They will suck me in every time. Tablets with aviation maps, however, are the best thing for aviation since the GPS IMHO. I am a fan of the gadgets but I do occasionally still fly on paper. And it is fun to do.

Current maps for pretty cheap, with an airplane icon flying along the magenta line on the Sectional. Star Trek here we come.

[n85ae]

A little white envelope arrives in the mail periodically, and it has sectionals, terminal area
chart for Chicago, and an airport facilities directory, My charts are always current, and
I never need to download anything ... :)

Jeff

[beeryboats]

Jeff, I assume you have a subscription service? What is the cost vs. the Foreflight update every year? All I would need is sectionals.

P.S. If you every come south to Indy, please drop in at my place. I'm on the Indianapolis inset of the St Louis sectional. Newby Landing.

[n85ae]

I subscribe through Sport's Pilot shop, the cost is reasonable, and they
always arrive on time. When I used to fly IFR I used Jeppesen since I like
their approach plates, and enroute charts. I only fly VFR these days so
I only use sectionals now. I use the terminal area chart quite a bit since
I'm just outside the O'Hare Class B (I'm at DeKalb Taylor KDKB). It's on my
kneeboard all the time for local flights.

Jeff

[Av8r_Sed]

My paper chart subscription is through mypilotstore. A little discount, but then I don't get entered in Sporty's drawing each time the charts are issued. http://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/chart/FAA_VFR_Sectional_Charts.asp

[N981MS]

Here is the price comparison some of you asked for.

My pilot store prices. Site unclear if these include discount for subscription although that is what I clicked. They stated free shipping. Sporty's was more expensive but could not find a published subscription price.

Sectional 7.50 x 2 per year = $15
TerminalArea Chart 5.05 x 2 per year = $10.10
AFD 4.60 x 6 per year = $27.60

Total $52.70 per year to cover one region including one TAC.

Foreflight, Garmin, Wing X etc cover all of the above for the entire US for $74.99. Instrument charts included if you are into that. All have free trial period. Avare which I have not tried is altogether free. Worth a try if you have a Droid. I suspect you get bells and whistles with a pay app like Foreflight etc. I have no financial interest in any of these products but Foreflight has worked great for me.

[Danzer1]

Skyvector for flight planning is worth a try. It is web based, so will work on anything. Pretty intuitive and shows weather stations with potential area's to avoid in different color dots, shows current fuel prices and also shows all TFR's. It's totally free.


Avare which I have not tried is altogether free. Worth a try if you have a Droid. I suspect you get bells and whistles with a pay app.

Avare does not have a paying app, it is totally open source. I've been playing with it on the ground and considering it as a backup. It has somewhat of a learning curve (what doesn't) but seems pretty good for a free app and current charts.

Greg

[beeryboats]

Thanks guys. Boy for $15 a year you can't beat paper can you? Back when I was current, there were no computers, much less iPads with charts on them. I worked at an FBO where I could walk up to the front office and buy the current chart. Try that these days!

I need to start over on my navigation skills, so for now it's going to be paper and plotter. But I have the iPad with GPS, so I may pay for so app in the future. I'm glad I started another good discussion on the forums. Seems like I hit a nerve once in a while and everyone chimes in. That's what makes this group so much fun!
Thanks,
Jay

[Esser]

Makes sense for us. For one area it is about $80 a year for VNC's and VTA's that pays for half my Foreflight subscription right there not to mention CFS(4 times a year at $20), CAPGEN, and the charts for every other area in Canada.

[n85ae]

Pick up a copy of "Air Navigation" from P.V.H Weems, it was the standard
for Navigation leading into WWII and has a LOT of good info about dead
reckoning, wind triangles, etc. NOT very likely but if you get into celestial
nav it is in there also. Used copies on Ebay can be found pretty cheap. A
very interesting book, with a lot of great info. The one I have is dated I
think 1938. Hard to imagine, but a lot of them were far better navigators
than any of us back in those days.

Jeff


Thanks guys. Boy for $15 a year you can't beat paper can you? Back when I was current, there were no computers, much less iPads with charts on them. I worked at an FBO where I could walk up to the front office and buy the current chart. Try that these days!

I need to start over on my navigation skills, so for now it's going to be paper and plotter. But I have the iPad with GPS, so I may pay for so app in the future. I'm glad I started another good discussion on the forums. Seems like I hit a nerve once in a while and everyone chimes in. That's what makes this group so much fun!
Thanks,
Jay

[KFfan]

NOT very likely but if you get into celestial
nav it is in there also.

What's so unusual about celestial navigation?
I used it all over the Pacific (both hemispheres) in the late '60s. :rolleyes:
I relied on it to verify LORAN :)

[n85ae]

I have a bunch of old Navigation manuals (USAF, etc) in PDF form I have
collected off the Web, if anybody is interested send me a private message
and I'll give you a link where they can be downloaded. Also some good
stuff for using the E6B, etc. Plot sheets, Compass adjustment, etc. Not
much for the GPS fans though ...

Jeff

[Jesse]

Foreflight is nice and worth the money but if you dont have the iPad ect to start with then it can be expensive to switch from paper to touch screen. I have the iFly 720 that i use now, its a moving map touch screen that requires no external GPS antenna, such as the (bad elf). I still keep a tac/sectional everywhere i go, and it has come in handy a few times(plus more fun). I learned to fly with paper charts and the ol compass and e6b and you really feel invested in your calcs because they have to be right on or your screwed.

[Paul Z]

The biggest advantage to the Foreflight, or any of the other electronic gadgets is the airport info available, frequencies, runways, altitudes, hotel info, rent car info, restaurants, fuel cost etc. The are also great on long cross countries. It definately helped me pick my way through the Rockies in Wyoming and Utah to New Mexico on my trip to and from Homedale Idaho. It shows all of the obstructions, and passes through the obstructions, AKA Rockies. The Foreflight app also has weather, which helped on the way up and back. All the paper charts have is airport info. I was definately pleased I had my iPad with Foreflight on my Idaho trip from Texas.

[beeryboats]

Neat! I need one for sure. Believe it or not, but I own an old aviation sextant.


Pick up a copy of "Air Navigation" from P.V.H Weems, it was the standard
for Navigation leading into WWII and has a LOT of good info about dead
reckoning, wind triangles, etc. NOT very likely but if you get into celestial
nav it is in there also. Used copies on Ebay can be found pretty cheap. A
very interesting book, with a lot of great info. The one I have is dated I
think 1938. Hard to imagine, but a lot of them were far better navigators
than any of us back in those days.

Jeff

[n85ae]

Now EVEN with GPS, I still think paper should be part of the process.

I short cut my flight planning on paper process, by simply drawing lines, from
point to point. Then I tick off every 10nm on the chart, and round everything
off to within 5nm referenced off the tick marks by eyeball. I can calculate
time/distance, and speed very fast this way. If you get rid of the odd
distances (36nm) and use the closest 5nm (make it 35nm instead) you
find that everything works out so closely from the air that your nav will be
spot on.

You can do this in the air very easily as well, since ticking off every 10nm
is simple to do. then just glance at the chart, and say - Ok XYZ is half
between the 30, and the 40 tick marks so I'll just make it 35

Then just use the plotter indicated heading, and to heck with all the
mag/wind corrections, and you then fly off the first 10nm, on the heading
the plotter says. Figure out which way you are off, correct accordingly.
Then voila you know the difference the plotter suggested and your real
heading as it needs to be.

Since you are using 10nm tick marks, it's brain dead simple to calculate
speed with the E-6B.

Checkpoints? Easy! ANY small town, lake. RR track, etc. is easy to mentally
locate the 10nm mark's approx position relative to.

Now if you can't do that - Okay - You need GPS after all ...

I think half the reason that paper sucks so bad, is trying to do everything
they teach you in training, and then finding out that the first checkpoint
finds your calculated 72.3465 degree heading is really 85 degrees in flight.

If you just drew a line with the plotter and it says 75 ... Then just fly 75
degrees until you figure out your course because of (unknown variables) is
10 degrees off. Then just correcting the course is easy.

If you're flying GPS, and you aren't noting points on the ground, at least
every 10nm or so anyway, IF and when your GPS craps out ... Then I
guarantee you will NOT know where you are. Because I would wager 99%
of the pilots will spent 15 minutes trying to get their GPS rebooted BEFORE
they switch to looking at the sectional wondering "oh crap, now where
am I"?

I'm pretty sure that's how it would be for most pilots, because that's
exactly how I was flying with GPS before I got interested in paper.

Jeff

[HighWing]

The biggest advantage to the Foreflight, or any of the other electronic gadgets is the airport info available, frequencies, runways, altitudes, hotel info, rent car info, restaurants, fuel cost etc. The are also great on long cross countries. It definately helped me pick my way through the Rockies in Wyoming and Utah to New Mexico on my trip to and from Homedale Idaho. It shows all of the obstructions, and passes through the obstructions, AKA Rockies. The Foreflight app also has weather, which helped on the way up and back. All the paper charts have is airport info. I was definately pleased I had my iPad with Foreflight on my Idaho trip from Texas.

I have enjoyed reading the reports on the various viewpoints. I think they all have merit. The quote above is what is driving me. I used to buy the Western States version of Flight Guide. It was a quick reference for airports, altitudes, frequencies and facilities. I suspect the reason it is no longer available is because of the popularity of the electronic versions available now. This is the primary reason when I went to renew my subscription to to the IFly database and found their app for a tablet I went out and picked up a 7" Galaxy for $149. For some reason I need something in my hand that will give me what I want without reaching for and disabling my primary navigation device to search through menus.

I suspect one reason one size will never fit all is due to our particular flying situation. There are some areas of the country, I would be very intimidated without GPS and others without some sort of chart or both. My flying has been pretty much a repetitive set of destinations with some habits well established. I could easily get from my home to the factory in Idaho with nothing except the view out the window. I’d want something to remind me exactly where Fallon NAS was though.

Then to Jeff’s waypoint idea, I made up a spreadsheet form that I always use for every flight. It is folded in quarters for each leg or day of flying. When full on both sides, It is punched and put it in a 3 ring binder for future reference. In practice, it is mostly used to identify photos and video I have taken over the years. But I also use it to update my Pilot Log once a year.

The attached photo is a page from one of the Idaho Back Country flights showing the legs we flew one day. The way points were actually stops during the day when we were doing our exploring.

[Paul Z]

Here is the reason I like iPad with Foreflight I am approaching Laramie, Wyoming

This is me parked at the Laramie, Wyoming

I was trying to depart to get further down the road on my trip to Homedale, humm weather in the way!

Can't do this with Paper!

[Paul Z]

Here I am going through the Valley on my way towards Boise, then to Homedale. Humm, I can't fly too far North or South without climbing!

It really helps in both adverse weather, and getting through the mountains.

7777

[Danzer1]

Here is the reason I like iPad with Firelight I am approaching Laramie, Wyoming

Pretty sure you meant Foreflight :D

I've demo'd it and did really like it. But, I can't stand Apple products, I'm an android user all the way! Last I talked to the Foreflight rep, they are not willing to make an android version - even though it is the wider used operating system for tablets (62% vs 36% for Ipads). Oh well!

[Paul Z]

Yes I did the auto spelling correction corrected it, and I didn't notice. I'll agree with the Apple Product, I got addicted to the iPad. I have an Apple Mac Desktop, I keep hoping it craters. However, I have a HP desktop I don't use because I hate Window 8, I can't figure it out. I wish it had XP!

[kitfox2009]

Hi guys
I also don`t use Apple products but you may want to try AvNavEFB. It is an android app that seems to be very much like foreflight. You can use it for a month or so on trial. The cost is only about $5 month. Has all the US charts. Supposed to have Canada later.
I used it for a short flight into the US and thought it was worth the money.
Probably less expensive than paper charts.
I use it on a Gallaxy Tab S with a matt finish screen saver. Not problem reading it on sunny days.
I have NO connection with the manufacturer.
Don

[beeryboats]

I started this thread, so I guess it's ok if I hijack it for a second. I had a droid tablet for years while my wife had an iPad. I loved the tablet for reading, but droids lack the vast amount of apps that iPad users enjoy. But the iPad always felt too large. So I gave up the tablet for my iPad with GPS so I could use it for flying. I've been second guessing my choice. I guess I really need to have someone show me an app and see if I like it or not.
Jay

[n85ae]

Yes you can do all that with paper, and it requires less electricity
as well ... :)


Can't do this with Paper!

[Danzer1]

Okay Jeff, You've got me!
Yes you can do all that with paper

I think we all get that you're a paper fan. I think most of us get that it is probably wise/advantageous to still be proficient with paper. But how do you do real time weather (Pauls point) on paper? :D

Sometimes technology does have the advantage.

[Paul Z]

I want to watch him color in the weather charts & the obstruction charts. I'd bet it would take a little more time.

[Danzer1]

That's good! Don't forget the Crayon budget and new map budget - every time you moved or the weather moved, you'd have to color a new one, not to mention the time spent NOT flying the airplane:eek:. I'd rather see it on a screen!;)

Don't forget to keep looking outside - no matter what methods you prefer!

[Paul Z]

Oh no there's lightening, I need a red color, wait there is a hole developing. I need an eraser, wait you can't erase crayolas, I need a new map!

[n85ae]

Crayola, seriously that's rather insulting? I use Dry Erase markers, then I can
just wipe it off when the weather clears up.

Jeff

[n85ae]

Oh, and just for the insults - I hope you accidentally have some Crayola's
in your pocket next time your clothes go through the drier ...

Jeff

[t j]

I worked in a job for 45 years that required me to know exactly where I was with a map and compass so I'm pretty comfortable using just that. My Kitfox and I are both strictly daytime VFR. If I venture into unfamiliar country I navigate with my finger on a map. Usually a Forest service map.

For 99% percent of my flying its like this:

When I see this mountain I'm heading North
7780

When I see this river canyon I'm heading South
7781

When I see this big River I'm heading East
7782

When I see this big mountain I'm heading West
7783

[Paul Z]

Now I like that method of determining which direction to fly. The pictures are great. However, how do you pick your way through the mountains, what is the best route? Do you go N, S, E, or W? I would differ with your statement 99% of your flying is like this. I would say 99.5% is like that! :) I just find the iPad extremely valuable on a Long Cross Country flight! Enough said!

[t j]

how do you pick your way through the mountains, what is the best route? Do you go N, S, E, or W? I would differ with your statement 99% of your flying is like this.Experience in the mountains using my finger on a map. Chasing helicopters through the canyons spraying spruce bud worms taught me a lot.
http://i.imgur.com/3i2aStc.jpg

[Paul Z]

I was looking for a picture from the air in the Dallas Area, we hove a few ant hills to worry about, but mountain flying is something that scared the devil out of me. I had absolutely Zero time flying in real mountains prior to flying to Homedale. I flew to the east Cost and the Blue Ridge Mountains do not compare.

[n85ae]

Nice one Tom! Also with the "out the window" method - VFR, real time
weather looks like this? It hardly requires an "i" device either ... The
only issue is - no pretty red, orange, or yellow colors :)

[Dorsal]

Navigation aside those are some fantastic pictures :)

[cgruby]

I have a Nexus 7 Android with Garmin Pilot. It has all the maps and free WX. The annual price is around $70. I haven't taken any trips yet, but it looks pretty good. PS, I still have the paper charts.

Cheers,

[Russell320]

These pictures were just north of Dallas in July.

[airlina]

Nice photos Russ, I see from your profile you list your occupation as bus driver, I suspect that's an Airbus from the look of those pics.

[DanB]

Very cool pictures Russ! Thanks for sharing:)

[beeryboats]

Mountains! I remember those, and hills too. Now that I'm in Indiana, the flattest place I've ever seen, I can get completely turned around on a dark cloudy day. Seriously, it happened in the car one day. Thank goodness the wife's car had a compass.

So I could see where an iPad could come in very handy for navigation. And weather. Hoosiers like to say if you don't like the weather, wait a few and it will change.

[Paul Z]

If you are on top of the scud that is what it looks like, if you are flying low an slow visibility isn't always that clear.

[vetdrem]

I have been using an IPAD 2 with Garmin Pilot for awhile now and love it. The only problem is the IPAD is just too big for the kitfox. Just yesterday I bought a NEXUS 7 and loaded the Garmin Pilot program on it. I am sure that this will cure my problem.

I also loaded the Garmin program onto my phone (no extra charge for a second device), so if the tablet takes a dump, I have a back up. I have tried using the phone and it works the same as the tablet, except these old eyes have a hard time with it, but using readers and squinting will get me back home.

[digital_photog]

I use a Google Nexus 7 with iFly. I tried Garmin and Avare but liked the iFly app better. Not a lot of room in a Kitfox II so I like it better than paper. I used sectionals and Jepps for years for VFR and IFR. Now I am strictly day VFR

[Paul Z]

I hate trying to fold a maps in flight. Trying to fold is the key statement. I don't mind using them I just hate folding them. I usually throw them in the back of the plane, when done. I've started using screen shots off of the computer put it in Power point draw my route, and I can throw the pages in the back as complete. I guess it like the going to the store, and they "paper or plastic". As my father would say "everyone got their own stupid opinion", and that's my stupid opinion.

It's good to have thought of my Dad he passed a few years ago. That was an edited version of his saying, to keep it decent. He had a way with sayings.