trailering a KF long distance

[turboturner]

This has probably been asked & answered before but I can't find a thread. I may have to move a KF across the continent & don't have the time to fly it so I'm considering hauling it. Have any of you done this before? I'm concerned about leaving the wings on, unsupported (folded) & would be tempted to remove them altogether to remove stress from the frame & bolts. Also, the engine mounts aren't designed to bear that kind of abuse, I'm told, so that the engine should have additional support, apparently. Not sure how I would do that. Any recommendations?
Thank you for your input.
Carl

[Paul Z]

Here is a thread on trailering

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=3226&highlight=Trailering

[turboturner]

Thnx Paul - good info

[Peteohms]

Carl, I'd offer to ferry it for you just for the adventure but the F A and the A requires a commercial ticket. Having flown my Kitfox from Texas to Oshkosh 4 times, I don't see how trailering would be quicker.

[FitchUpNorth]

Carl,
I bought mine out of Warner Robbins GA, and hired an AWESOME team to trailer it to MN, as I did not have the time and luxury either to get it home. PM me for the info. Not only was he professional and courteous, he also incorporated a ball hitch mount to relieve stress on the empennage, and custom support poles to brace the folded wings. PM me for his info...
Denny

[PropellerHead]

Carl, I'd offer to ferry it for you just for the adventure but...

Really? You can't fly someone else's plane across the country even if it's not for money?

[wheelerg]

What approx. area are you going? I just finished a trailer for mine with proper rear end supports etc....
being retired I have lots of time to do menial things:D

Trenton Ont

[Paul Z]

As long as your not paid to transport, I would say you are borrowing a friends airplane.

[Peteohms]

As long as your not paid to transport,....

Well the FAA doesn't see it that way. They believe that a private pilot is benefiting because he is getting free hours in his logbook. Heaven forbid! Borrowing might work if you had the insurance to cover. Probably, it would still be skirting the law.

[ken nougaret]

Gary, how about posting some pics of your trailer and supports?

[tommg13780]

Here's a trailer I offered a number of times without getting a single inquiry so apparently there's not much of a market for open Kitfox trailers.

[kmach]

Hi,

I personally would consider trailering as a last resort.

There has been many a damaged plane from just one thing overlooked or some weird occurance .

I considered trailering when getting my 5 from Pittsburg to Regina.

In the end I got a fellow to ferry it for $ 1500 plus expenses , it was insured under US owner's plan til de-registration.

These birds are made to fly ! :)

[wheelerg]

Gary, how about posting some pics of your trailer and supports?

This is the only pic I have as of today, its in need of paint now and a few more braces I think.

Bolted to front of trailer brace, used 1inch square tube

[Jfquebec]

I really dont love the idea to support the tail on frame...i sure it is better to support her on his tail wheel..i see two plane moving like that ..and both are damage on tail frame...one titan tornado and my kitfox..the guy's who transport my plane put the tail on trailer frame with a lot of foam..but two tube on frame curve...:mad:....just take a look how it is support on trailer from Kitfox factory...on tail wheel..

[kitfox2009]

Hi Gary
This is just an opinion but I would suggest using a much lighter sprung trailer.The picture looks like a "car hauler" meant for carrying a few thousand pounds. Your 700 pound a/c won`t provide enough weight to soften the ride.
If you are going to use this trailer I would at least recommend a shock absorbing arrangement at the tail end.
You may want to look at the setup I use (look on my albums) in order to distribute the load on my Vixen.The are 2 carry through tubes on the rear fuselage that I pin a "saddle"arrangement to.If you mounted this on a suspension assembly I believe it would be easier on the a/c than what I see on your photograph.
It would be a shame to bend it now.
Good luck
Don

[ken nougaret]

don, i was looking at your photo album. what is the yellow channel that is vertical at the tail of the plane?
thanks, ken

[HighWing]

Jean-Francois's comment caught my eye. The car hauler thoughts that they are designed to soften the load of heavy weights prompted me to make the pictured tail support when I moved my finished Model IV 50 miles to test fly. The support doesn't hold the tail high, but it has a spring supporting a telescoping tube with a delrin ring that fits under the main tailwheel bolt. I put the tail of the airplane on the stand and put a couple of straps over and around the tail wheel spring angled forward. The stand is drilled so it can be screwed to the wood trailer deck.

[kitfox2009]

Hi Ken
The yellow assembly is just 2 one by twos with foam attached to the top ends. This sits over the 2 inch square tubing that supports the rear of the fuselage.
The foam ends slide up between the flaperons and rudder in order to protect the paint and support the rudder from miss alignment.
I will use the same system in my new "covered wagon".(pics in the album)
My idea this fall is to trailer the Vixen down to Page,AZ and spend a while in the canyon area. Possibly then on to Casa Grande for a month or so. I will use the RV for towing and my "home".
Hope it all works out.
Cheers
Don
Not sure what customs will say when I show up at the border with my Canadian a/c in tow!

[Paul Z]

Kitfox2009
Looks like a great adventure is coming up, I have a few suggestions:
1) I would recommend writing a check list for loading the Kitfox in the Covered Wagon.
2) when you cross into the US stop at the Border Patrol Check point and get a picture with the Canadian/American BP with a sign on the side of the Covered Wagon saying Kitfox2009 - Vacation headed to Grand Canyon 2014". When you get back you can show the Canadian BP Agent the photo of you, your Kitfox, and the Covered wagon heading South.
3) Make sure you have the camera set up to Date Stamp the photo with Date & Time you crossed the Border. It will help getting back in, showing when you departed.
4) it will also document your trip so you can post it in the forum, for your Kitfox family, so we can vacation vicariously. :rolleyes:

I looked at your Covered Wagon, good idea, less chance for damage from the road during the trip.

Have a great vacation, looks like an adventure.

Paul Z

[kitfox2009]

G`morning Paul
Good suggestions. I like your idea of the pics at the border. Even though the a/c is Canadian registered it could save some turmoil when returning.
I do use a check list for loading/unloading. It is OK if one is doing it quite often but after a few months I find "retraining" necessary!
Looking forward to the trip.
Cheers
Don

[Esser]

I think you will get more of a hassle from the US side as they think you might be bringing it in to someone who bought it and doesn't want to pay full duty on it.

It's a Canadian registered AC so I can't see Canadian customs doing anything more than checking the ownership.

That being said, any countries border guards on a bad day are extremely stressful to deal with so the pictures may definitely help. It won't hurt.

[wheelerg]

Hi Gary
This is just an opinion but I would suggest using a much lighter sprung trailer.The picture looks like a "car hauler" meant for carrying a few thousand pounds. Your 700 pound a/c won`t provide enough weight to soften the ride.
If you are going to use this trailer I would at least recommend a shock absorbing arrangement at the tail end.
You may want to look at the setup I use (look on my albums) in order to distribute the load on my Vixen.The are 2 carry through tubes on the rear fuselage that I pin a "saddle"arrangement to.If you mounted this on a suspension assembly I believe it would be easier on the a/c than what I see on your photograph.
It would be a shame to bend it now.
Good luck
Don

that makes good sense Don, will make some changes shortly, its only on the trailer for about 6 miles to my airport but agree that suspension is somewhat stiff for a light plane. Much appreciated

[avidflyer]

I just got back home after picking up a Kitfox 4 in Texas. 1400 miles. Here is my trailer and the support I used on the back of the plane. Had to take the tailwheel off cause the angle iron supports were to short with the 8" wheel, but it was no problem. I took off the main wheels cause my trailer is to narrow for the grove gear, as it was made for standard gear width. Plane came though just fine. If I remember right, the was some discussion earlier in this topic about resting on the tailwheel. I would recommend you do it my way. Jim Chuk

PS thanks again for your help Pete!

[wheelerg]

What are the thoughts on having the plane sitting in a grounded position vs having it level while towing it to avoid the down pressure on the wings? I agree on using the wing braces for the front but built mine so it sat in a level position to avoid what I perceived would be pressure on the wings while they are slanted down towards the front of the trailer?
I see yours are slanted down towards the front of the trailer. any issues with that type of positioning?

[avidflyer]

I would agree that closer to level would be better, but it didn't seem to be a problem the way it was. The worst is when semis pass you and when they get about 200' ahead of you their slipstream rocks you sideways back and forth quite a bit. I usually drove about 60 MPH and after a while sometimes 65 in light traffic and smooth roads. Jim Chuk

[Peteohms]

Glad you made it home Jim!

[old flyer 86]

I may be buying a IV 1200 sometime this coming year and thought about the transport problem. My idea is to rent a UHaul box truck and secure it internally so it doesn' move around. Of course a couple of planks would be required to roll it off/on. Rental wouldn't be any more than buying a trailer, and it could be driven at the speed limit without damage. This in the event it is beyond reasonable flying distance. We flew my Citabria from NE Ohio to Tucson, AZ years ago and I wouldn't look forward to doing it again at 90 MPH. Any ideas?:)

[Av8r_Sed]

The box truck probably isn't wide enough to accommodate the IV with wings on. It shouldn't be a problem if you remove them. I'm not sure of the gear width if it has Grove gear on it.

[old flyer 86]

Thanks for the responese. Is there a forum member out there who has a IV 1200 with the Grove spring gear and axles with the wheel pant extensions who would kindly furnish the dimension of the plane at its widest point taking into account wings folded, horizontal stabilizer, main gear. This info would be of tremendous value to somone wanting to close trailer/truck a ship long distance not only myself but others wth the same problem. Thanks for your help.:o

[Av8r3400]

That's exactly how I got my IV-1200 project home from NY, Old Flyer 86.

Be sure to use the wing braces on the one wing left on the plane. The second wing will need to be completely removed to fit in the door of the truck. The horizontal tail will also have to come off to fit.

It may sound funny, but consider also getting several hundred pounds of sandbags as well to ballast the truck. They ride terrible with only a 600# airplane in them… :eek:

[ken nougaret]

Is everyone's auto insurance covering your hauled load? Or aircraft insurance? Or a separate policy?

[KFfan]

USAA Auto Insurance here

[FitchUpNorth]

I supported mine similar to Jim Chuk's. But I used a trailer ball and fabricated my own support. Worked great, no stress on the tailwheel. HIGHLY recommend not letting it rest on the tailwheel. Wasn't designed for that stress, plus have heard many horror stories of the fuse actually deforming under the stress.
Denny

[SkyPirate]

For the tandem axle trailer guys you could let some air out of the trailer tires, such a light load I bet 26 lbs instead of 32 you wouldn't notice much squat in the tires :)

[Jfquebec]

hummmm....but stress on frame...i love more to put stress on tailwheel..it is desing for landing...

[turboturner]

Sorry for the late post & thank you all for your ideas & suggestions. At the suggestion of a friend we took it apart & hauled it inside a U-Haul truck. We strapped (hung) the wings to the side walls and braced the fuselage, using binders to prevent any shifting. The advantage of this mode of tpt (over ferrying it) is that you can drive day and night (which we did) in all wx conditions. From Vancouver Island to Southern Ontario could have taken weeks of ferry flying if the wx doesn't co-operate (which then becomes an adventure if you're retired) but it was only 54 hours of driving for us. This was probably cheaper than flying if you include hotels, meals, gas & misc. incidentals.
Thanks again gents.
Carl

[avidflyer]

hummmm....but stress on frame...i love more to put stress on tailwheel..it is desing for landing...

Problem with resting it on the tailwheel is you now have the weight of the wings on that tail wheel as well. Try to lift the back of the plane when the wings are folded, you will be surprised to see how heavy it is compared to before you folded the wings. The rear two mounting points for the factory built tow hitch were designed to take the weight of towing the plane. Using the rear attachment point as I've done many times, keeps the weight off the tailspring as well, which wasn't designed to take the weight of the folded wings bouncing up and down. I've pulled Avids and Kitfoxes close to 3000 miles total supported like my pictures show with no damage. Jim Chuk

[Jfquebec]

You are right ..it is more heavy with the wing back..

Jf