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View Full Version : How many have a BRS ?



motoadve
05-26-2009, 06:11 AM
Are they reliable?I have heard about a few malfunctions , like when the Cessna 162 was being tested went into an irrecoverable spin and the test pilot pulled the BRS didnt work and had to jump off the plane with a regular parachute.

Im thinking of buying a BRS, is a last chance card in case everything goes wrong, many people specially in GA planes are against them.

But I read the 4 times were used in the Cirrus it worked.

My instructor for example who flies both GA and ultralights is totally in favor

Wanted to hear the opinions here.

jrthomas
05-26-2009, 07:22 AM
Lot's of pilots have back up things like radios,GPS's and fuel pumps. My opinion is if it makes you feel better, do it. For me personally, I don't do aerobatics and I have confidence that my plane is solid, I'd rather take my chance of making a controlled landing into the place of my choice. I know some will say we don't always have those choices. Any thing can happen but you can't possibly be prepared for every possible situation. I believe in taking reasonable precaution but if I wanted to play it completely safe I'd stay on the ground. With my luck I'll probably end up run over by a dump truck. Also I have to consider the cost and weigh the possible benifits. So my answer is "NO" I don't have a BRS. I should have just said that to start with, Right?

Skybolt
05-26-2009, 07:29 AM
I know of two guys that had the BRS system installed.
Good friend took off on first flight stalled at end of runway. Wing droped went into a spin. Did not employ his BRS.
It did not help him.

One other guy went flying in his ultra light. Had trouble with a wing, used his BRS and landed safely.

If you got it; use it.

SkyPirate
05-26-2009, 09:48 AM
you have got to have at least 800 foot altitude on the lighter capacity (1200 lbs or less)BRS's for it to deploy,..and if you deploy it ,..you chance of going into the trees is the same,..the only real advantage of a BRS is if you have structural failure,..and deploy it immediately..if you can fight the G's and pull the D ring..or "T handle " in the case of the BRS.

I have installed them on lighter aircraft for weight issues,..I figured if I've got to ad 16 lbs to meet W&B ..might as well add a BRS..
Now if you install it ..you have to maintain it,..different BRS systems have different maintenance schedules,..rocket deployed..canister or soft packs..etc.
The web site for BRS chutes the last I looked at it..shows a deployment ..but on the ground .. not in actual flight conditions ..but they do have some stories posted of individuals using them in flight.

Chase

My old kitfox 2 had one in it .. the one in my profile photo.

I'd like to add,..on a GA airplane ..installation of a BRS is different,..they not only have to install it ..but put it in a place where it is not going to change the flight characteristics..which is ussually with in the fuselage..now ..they have got to either install a hatch for deployment ..or perferate the skin for the rocket to successfully exit the fuselage,(unless your flying a piper p-18 or something with fabric covered fuselage)without damaging the Chute..the area's to mount the sling/harness is another issue,..your strongest points on the GA aircraft are the wing mount points,..now route the sling/harness so it will successfully deploy bit not have a part of the aircraft interfer it's deployment..
BRS has it's hands full to retro fit there system to GA aircraft..no so with an experimental,..if in fact the decision to install a BRS is pre construction of the Experimental aircraft. but no limited to pre..it can be added post.

jsimmo97
08-10-2009, 01:40 PM
Just bought a Kitfox IV. I'd like to install one. If you have one installed can you pls post detail pictures of how and where you installed it for reference sake.

Thanks!

~Jason

Btw... airbags in car are a complete waste. They don't work either. :-)

DanB
08-10-2009, 02:42 PM
Jason, If you call the BRS folks and talk to them they will bring you up to speed on what needs to be done. I believe they even have schematics on where and how to install on a KF-IV. They sent me some at one time but I lost them with a computer crash.

Slyfox
08-10-2009, 03:25 PM
Gee, for those guys that go under 800ft all the time, that BRS is useless. .

The other day I was coming in to land and I got a good vibration under my feet. I thought, oh my. It lasted about 60 seconds, but you get the picture, I was over the city and a bunch of things crossed my mind. I decided to lower the rpms and than raised them back up. Engine seemed just fine. In fact, I have been getting some vibration for some time but this was concerning. Than it quit, nice and smooth. better than it has been. I put in a new motor in january. So what's going on. I landed and looked under the plane. Guess what, my radiator bottom plate broke off at the passenger side and the plate was hanging down, that's hanging down about 2ft. Walla, I found my vibration. don't you think.

Would have been pretty stupid to deploy a BRS on that one. That's how scared I was with the vibration, by the way.

jsimmo97
08-10-2009, 03:33 PM
Steve... not sure what your point is. Like airbags in a car... there is a time to use them and a time not to but that shouldn't preclude you from using all available resources when necessary.

Thanks for sharing your opinion though.

Slyfox
08-10-2009, 03:46 PM
I was busy with other things at the same time I wrote it, so bear with me.

I remember back to the Cirrus airplanes that the pilots pulled the rip cord when they could have done other things. Like not flying in known icing, or just pulling because they were scared.

The first one was do to the fact that many of the kitfox's like to fly low, so that may not be feasable at all.

On my account, sometimes we loose reality when something happens and pulling the cord becomes a reality when we can do with out it.

Personally I feel flying the plane to the ground gives many options, more than pulling the cord, mainly because you don't know where you will end up, on top of a tree 150ft up, I think you get the picture.

If you do get a BRS, please go over in you mind the times that you will use it, and be very smart about it.

SkyPirate
08-10-2009, 04:37 PM
first you have to determine what size BRS you want or need for your plane ..when you order it let them know which plane your installing it in and get the proper harness that fits your craft,..my kitfox 2 has a 750 BRS mounted right behind the baggage/storage area ,..depending on which way you mount the BRS,..you'll have to put a hole in the fabric (if the plane is already covered) on the side you point the rocket to,.. not quite in line with the rockets deployment path , but off set towards the front of the craft ..this is where you will route the harness to the connect point of the cannister which holds the chute..after this is done you will need to have some fabric to cover the harness along side the fuselage as well as the hole you put in the side of the aircraft,..for the deployment actuator,..mine was installed above my head,..think of what G forces you could possibly be subjected to incase of structural failure ..the further you have to reach for the deployment actuator ..the more the G forces on your arm/hand when you try to deploy the chute ..the closer to you it is the better ..and pulling down is easier from the seating position then pulling sideways or up..,

Hope this gives you an idea on what's involved

as slyfox said ..think about when you would use it ..personally myself ,..the only time I would use it is in the event of structural failure at or above 800 AGL,..800 AGL is the altitude needed for the chute to be effectively deployed,..anything less then that ..it might slow your descent
a little ..or work as a tail and keep the plane in the upright position ..
in the event of engine out ..I'd dead stick it to the ground ,..deployment of the chute wouldn't even be thought.


Chase

SkyPirate
08-11-2009, 06:02 PM
I am going by what I read concerning the BRS as for the 800 foot minimum,..as for quote" How aobut a prop breaking and ripping the engine from the plane, rendering it unflyable,end quote" ..I would classify that as structural failure,..
I never said a BRS wasn't a good thing,..I've owned a few planes/ultralights with BRS's in them ..never had to use one (knocks on wood) didn't get a warm and fuzzy feeling because it was on the plane ..but you can bet if I had structural failure I'd be pulling the rip chord no matter what the altitude if there was a BRS on board ..there is always the chance you will get lucky and the deployment will open the canopy to full ,..short of the 800 foot altitude that's recommended for deployment,..maybe the manufacturers listed the 800 foot altitude because they had to present a number?

Chase

SkyPirate
08-11-2009, 06:41 PM
Yes ,..I'm on the site now looking for the recommended 800 foot deployment statement I read,.I see this statement on the NASA site".187 peoples lives saved in GA 172 -182 aircraft" altitude at deployment wasn't mentioned ..I'll bet its over 1000 foot AGL...

BRS site lists 238 lives saved ,..the site has been redone since I was last on it ,..and I can not find the statement of the recomended 800 foot deployment.
They state the best position for an install is pointed down ,..they require photo's of all installations for warrantee to be valid,..they have improved the design now and have a BRS-5 rocket that is to replace all current pre installed repacks,.."DO NOT SEND ROCKETS THROUGH MAIL WITHOUT LICENSE TO DO SO" is the statement concerning repacks to the model 5 rocket,..and it now has a 6 year repack instead of the old 4 year all good :)



Chase

catz631
03-21-2010, 07:33 AM
My BRS installation is similar to yours but the lanyard is hidden under the fabric. Weight is 30 lbs reducing my baggage compartment weight to 10 lbs. No big deal as the physical size remains the same so light items can be carried.
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
Milton,Fl

rcsfca
03-21-2010, 08:37 PM
There is an extensive three page discussion on chutes that started in January of this year (and is still being contributed to as of 3/18) in the TeamKitfox Forum - the title is BRS Install photos in Model 3?

One perspective I added in that thread had to do with adverse marketing and sales issues with the two big manufacturers, BRS and Magnum.

Check it out.

BTW, several members have discussed here and in other threads that they see the value of a chute in the event of "a major structural failure", usually described as a wing coming off or similar problem.
My question to the group is "When/where has any Kitfox experienced such a structural failure that happened spontaneously, meaning not as the result of striking something like a tree or another airplane OR entering into severe weather conditions such as a T-storm OR aerobatics/structural g-overloading?"
The reason I ask is that I've heard many times over the years that this type of failure has never occurred with a Kitfox and thought the group might have some background on this because it pertains so much to the chute question...

Rich Cunningham
Model IV-1200 / 912

jsimmo97
03-22-2010, 03:35 AM
Personally I am guarding against a mid air more than structural failure. To me it is cheap insurance given the relative low cost to install in a Kitfox.

catz631
03-22-2010, 04:45 AM
or pilot incapacitation or extremely hazardous terrain. It was a plus when I purchased my aircraft. I hope I never have to use it ! It would the last shot ! It is nice to know it is there.
Dick

zadwit
01-20-2018, 09:06 PM
In April 2017 a Titan tornado took off from Spanway Washington. At about 100 ft the plane started to roll right and the the pilot realize the ailerons were not connected. As he rolled past 90 degrees he deployed the chute. The kevlar bridle wrapped up in the prop so it lowerd theplane nose first into the dirt and he broke both ankles but survived and otherwise unsurvivalbe event.
1) midairs, (2) failure of flight controls(3) loss of control vfr into IMC, are just some of the reasons to have a BRS in the plane, not just for structural failure.
(4) engine failure over hostile terrain large rocks and tall trees....

avidflyer
01-20-2018, 10:41 PM
Wonder if the Titan pilot's pre flight involved only removing the safety pin from the BRS.....JimChuk

PNWJARED
01-26-2018, 12:15 AM
Zadwit,

How do you know the ailerons were not connected. I could find no information other than loss of control after the engine potentially quit. It sounds to me the engine sputtered then he tried to turn back or back to a safe place to pull the chute. Being tall trees he likely did well pulling the chute.

jonstark
01-30-2018, 05:36 PM
I have a brs system that I removed from my classic IV 1050 for wt & bal concerns. Free but for the cost of shipping. It will be made inert and will need to go back to the factory for recert. Some of the lanyard system stayed with the plane and is not available but I’d imagine you can get it from the factory.

Jon
413 834-0995
Turners Falls, MA

PNWJARED
02-01-2018, 09:58 PM
I have a BRS 1350HS in my KF7

Flybyjim
02-02-2018, 08:02 PM
Who supplied the BRS, BRS or Kitfox. Where is the unit mounted and where does the bridle hook up at? Does the ballistic rocket go out the side or somehow thru the top?

PNWJARED
02-03-2018, 12:33 AM
I will post some photos soon. we are moving tomorrow. to an Airstrip:):) so ill get them up soon. I used the factory location, call BRS for mounting config. but no support from factory. I built my own mount and routed per plan. I plan to modify the routing later this year.

Schmevn
06-18-2018, 11:41 AM
Posting to perhaps get this thread active again, and to ask PNWJARED, please post your pictures.

Thanks.

efwd
06-18-2018, 12:02 PM
I have considered the BRS. I question why one would use this in a two place airplane considering the cost and outcome of deploying it. I may be wrong when it comes to welded tube frame aircraft but It is my understanding that once deployed you are sacrificing the aircraft with the aim of saving the occupants lives. Aerobatic aircraft typically utilize personal parachutes that double as the occupants seat cushion. For half the price of a BRS in a Kitfox and no installation problems I can outfit pilot and passenger with personal parachutes. Granted, I will be strapped with a repack on two chutes every 6 months. I don't know what the BRS maintenance entails.
Eddie

Schmevn
06-18-2018, 12:27 PM
That's a really good point Eddie. If the comfort was comparable to the seat cushion, and egress was easy (doubtful with the stick), then I would consider wearing a parachute for sure.


Can anyone comment on what it is like wearing a chute while flying?


Evan.

efwd
06-18-2018, 12:49 PM
I think my Kitfox seat cushions are way more comfy than a parachute. I have only worn a parachute for one hour at a time. I can't recall ever feeling uncomfortable. "Cuz I was inverted". Im short, I could use my Kitfox bottom cushion and purchase a parachute that packs it all in on the back. There are versions with it packed 50/50 bottom/back or all in the bottom. I may borrow my buddies high performance sky diving parachute for initial test flights and just remove the back cushion from my plane. Fortunately his chute is appropriate for my weight. Being that I am smaller, I won't have difficulty rolling out the door. There is a lot to consider in this arena. Parachutes like these may not be designed to fly hours on end in comfort. Someone else will have to chime in.
Eddie

Dorsal
06-18-2018, 01:03 PM
I borrowed a friends chute for flight testing. I removed the back cushion and as I recall the comfort was reasonable.

Hockeystud87
06-18-2018, 03:06 PM
I know of two guys that had the BRS system installed.
Good friend took off on first flight stalled at end of runway. Wing droped went into a spin. Did not employ his BRS.
It did not help him.

One other guy went flying in his ultra light. Had trouble with a wing, used his BRS and landed safely.

If you got it; use it.

Two guys had BRS and both got into situations requiring their usage? Interesting.

Ramos
06-18-2018, 04:16 PM
I have a couple questions, if I may...

1. What is the minimum altitude for deployment of a BRS in a Kitfox or Avid?

2. What is the all-in weight penalty after installation?

jonstark
06-21-2018, 03:52 PM
My model IV had one but with the lightweight 582 engine it made the plane tail heavy so was removed.

It was set-up to fire out the belly just between the header tank and seat back. The bridle was then routed up the right side of the fuselage where it would rip off the turtledeck and suspend the cabin at the four wing attach points.

I'll be wearing an emergency rig for initial test flight which should be soon. I hope.

jon

tracstarr
06-22-2018, 06:04 AM
I'm curious about the firing out the belly. How exactly does that work? It would seem to me that there's a much great chance of it not deploying correctly and/or taking longer to actually catch air to help the situation.

I'm planning to put one in mine and have been trying to find images of existing installs. With minimal luck.

jonstark
06-22-2018, 10:03 AM
The rocket when shot off takes the parachute well away from the aircraft to deploy without interference from it. I don’t know where the instructions came from to install it that way. I just removed it.

Jon