Kitfox Market Value for Models 1-3 in 2014?

[jaykoit]

Hi All,

My name's Jason and I'm new to the forum. I am a student pilot looking for a Kitfox to buy to finish my sport pilot training.

I have looked around Barnstormers and seen a couple decent Kitfox's (and Avids too). I want to spend about 12K cash for a plane, so it looks like Model 1's and 2's are probably my best options, maybe a 3 if I get lucky.

My question for the forum is, what would you say the going rate/market value is for a good, in annual, low time engine, flying Kitfox model 1,2 or 3? Also what would you say a trailer is worth if included? I want to make sure I'm not overpaying but also offering fair prices to sellers. Also, if any of you are looking to sell any of these models in my price range let me know!

Thanks in advance and I look forward to hearing from you.

[rdooley79]

hahaha, I JUST went through the EXACT same exercise. Welcome to the forums!

Seriously, I was just looking for a good 3, they have the bigger rudder and some other refinements. You want a model 3 if possible. Advice, look on craigslist, across the country. Get very familiar with the rules and regs for aircraft *AIRWORTHINESS* vs. *REGISTRATION* basically if it's not in current airworthiness or has just recently expired from being parked in a hanger, stay away!
There are a few around that were not given an airworthiness from a DAR and are now "Pumpkins" and can't get a n-number.

The other thing you want to find is a trailer. That way you can trailer the plane home without having to fly it. Make sure the plane comes with the struts necessary for being loaded on a trailer.

If you don't know much about Rotax 582 engines, you'll want to. They are the most popular power plant for the model 1-3 airplanes. Good engines as long as they are properly maintained and cared for. People bad mouth them, call them crappy 2 strokes. They will run well and have good power per pound. There is a reason that they are used so prevalently.

Enjoy the process, wait for the right bird.

Welcome!

[SkyPirate]

Money talks,,if you find a plane that suits your needs in good shape and have cash in hand you just might get it for less then asking price,..I paid 14,500 for a beautiful model 2 in 1997,,in 2001 I sold it for 18,500,..

it doesn't always work that way,..I just happened to be in the right place at the right time ..twice :)

Finding one close will save added costs,..

trailer..modified nicely from a boat trailer..clean job building it, can be worth$1500 to $2500 or you can buy a brand new boat trailer for $750 to $1500 and modify it yourself

engines and instruments will change the values,,

my model 2 had a low time blue head 582 with basic VFR a BRS awesome paint,..and the guy that built it works for the redbull flying team..so I know it was built right

you'd be surprised what you will find if you stop in at different airports and inquire whats available for kitfox in the area,..my model 2 wasn't advertised, if I hadn't of asked I would have never known it was for sale

[jaykoit]

Thanks for the replies.

So what I'm gathering is that 12-13K for a decent model II/III sounds like a good deal, adding an extra $1500 or so if a good trailer's included?

With the older models I've read about adverse yaw issues as well as more difficult ground handling....am I asking for trouble trying to learn in one of these, or can it be done? I only have a couple hours in my logbook. Thanks

[SkyPirate]

your advantage...your in the learning phase..not already fixed with a collection of habits or years of muscle memory for each phase of flight,.. and then trying to fly a "sport" plane the model 3 and down are "Rudder" planes which means you must co ordinate all turns etc rudder /aileron inputs
I would suggest first flights in calm conditions ,,practice approach and landings, main wheel landings first then settle to 3 points

you wil need to find a tail wheel cfi that is willing to fly /teach in your plane or..find a tail wheel instructor with a cub or equivelant,..

DO NOT try to solo with only a couple hours training , especially in a tail dragger

ask around to see if there is an LSA instructor near you,, the advantage of an LSA instructor..he is already acclimated to light aircraft,..even if your going for private pilot license..an LSA instructor's time is still accountable

[jaykoit]

Absolutely, I have made preliminary arrangements with a tailwheel Sport Pilot CFI and SP DPE, so I can do all the training and checkride with him -- he'll even instruct in a student's experimental plane, so once I buy I can train in my Kitfox. Plus he has an LSRM certificate and he's an Independent Rotax Maint. Tech so he's pretty much a one-stop shop for annuals, instruction, etc.

Now, I just need to find the right plane....

[rdooley79]

I think you're about right. $12-15k is about what a good model 1-3 should go for. A trailer is worth some but with a little capability can be built to meet your needs. You actually want a plane with less stuff in the dash. The bare minimum amount of gear is appropriate to this style of flying. You want light but strong. Less is more for sure. Resist the urge to get a plane because it has a "cool" panel or the paint is cool. Look at the structure, hinges, cables, pulleys, wiring, fuel line, engine. Those are the things that matter the most and make the plane fly well. Corrosion is a big no-no if you see it, look further. If there is any "hanger rash" on the leading edge or tail, be careful. It'll need to be remedied to pass an annual condition inspection by an A&P. In fact if possible get an A&P to look over the plane before you hand over the cash. It's your butt up there!

Get to know your local flying community. Go around the hangers on a nice day and see which doors are open. Talk to people, most are very nice. Who knows someone might know a CFI that has an old Luscombe that you can get some good stick and rudder flight training from.

Finding the right instructor is critical. Look on the Light Sport CFI list. It will show you what categories they instruct for and what planes they have. You'll want to find someone who is willing to fly experimental aircraft as well. ALso most of the CFI's for Sport Pilot are Private pilot CFI's and therefore some of the training can be applicable to SP and PP. Flying is FUN, keep it FUN and enjoy the learning process. Learning all of the stuff, including all the regulations as boring as they are will help you going forward. It's all good stuff.
We all know that training is what makes us as safe as possible. Making good decisions will make flying fun and not scary.
Enough on that.

[SkyPirate]

I have seen pre buy insp. for LSA posts on Barn stormers,,
not looking for a date: but what size are you..er I mean how tall ,,weight ..and do you like the smell of burning avgas in the moonlight? LOL just kidding..that model 1 in AR and the couple in Texas listed,,I almost bought the red model 3 in Nevada mo but Jacob beat me to it,,I ended up buying a model 5

[jaykoit]

Lol I'm glad you brought that up! I meant to ask if I'd even fit in a 1 or 2...

I'm 6'2" and a skinny 165 lbs. How would I do as far as headroom? legroom? I'm pretty evenly proportioned but at this height I need both headroom and legroom. Any thoughts?

That Nevada Mo one looked pretty cool, I'm interested in another one in Nevada (state) and maybe that TX one possibly but they are both 2's ...do you think I'd fit?

[SkyPirate]

I'm 6' plus minus..at then when I had my model 2 I weighed 220 48" chest..now I'm down to 205 .8 per Veterans admin scale this am :) I have had to wear leg braces since 1978 and limited knee bending to 90 degree's..I could still get in my model 2 easily,if I got in first then pax,but with a guy my size in pax seat it was very tight,,I have no problems with my 5 getting in and or out

[Av8r3400]

The Kitfoxes have a lot more interior head and leg room than an equivalent age Avid. A model 1 may be a little small for you, but best would to be to try it on for size.

Have fun shopping and if you find the one for you, don't waffle on it or it will disappear. :)

[avidflyer]

The Kitfox 1 and Avid A model are 36" wide, later models are about 39.5" wide at the shoulders. Jim Chuk

[jaykoit]

Thanks everyone, good to know. Aside from what's been mentioned already, any words of wisdom/advice, special things to look for/consider? I'll of course be searching the forum on this topic today, but thought I'd ask while I'm here...

Also, can anyone help me out with advice on buying an aircraft out of state? I don't want to miss a good plane just because it's far away, but is it too cost prohibitive? What about finding a mechanic out by the plane to inspect it? Thanks!

[SkyPirate]

you find one,,post it's location with the above question..bet you get a quick answer :)

[jaykoit]

Av8rsed, I can't see your post on here but I got it in my email... GREAT point about needing copilot brakes installed if I'm going to finish my training in it -- where would I go to get the copilot brake system for an older kitfox? Also, what about for an Avid if I find one of those?? Anyone else know the answer as well? Thanks!

[SkySteve]

I added copilot brakes to my model 1. I got them from Matco in Salt Lake City, UT.

[rdooley79]

Avid's, kitfoxes and a few others use almost the same design. Avid's are the original design and Kitfox is the offshoot of that, if I'm not mistaken. Anyone please correct me here if not so.

Avid's are great airplanes. There are a few that pop up and since they're not as known (I guess) a good deal usually. Nice planes and if you sat one by a kitfox most people couldn't tell the difference. Take a look at Avid Heavy Hauler's a lot like the Model 3. The only thing I personally don't like about Avid's is that the engine mount is upside down. Rotax are supposed to be able to run either way. However guys have had issues over time with fouling plugs from oil pooling on the top of the cylinder when not run, even after just a few days. Most of the time though it's not a problem, just a major difference in my opinion. There are tons of posts about this and other avid topics.

barnstormers.com is your best friend by now I assume. hahaha about 3 times a day do a search for "fox" and "avid" and some times search for "582" or "rotax 582" and some things will pop up you wouldn't normally find. Also craigslist is very handy. There are planes on there around the country. http://www.searchcraigslist.org
This is a good tool to search all of craigslist for every state.

Buy a plane out of state? It's CRAZY!!!!! who would do that?!!! http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=5308
I'm about to set off in 4 days, from CO 1500 miles to TN with my brother where we'll be picking up a KFIV-1200. The thing that makes it do-able is that the plane comes with a light duty trailer made with a tail support. So you might like to check out the info I'm gathering as you may need to replicate the trip, if everything goes right that is!! *fingers crossed*

[jaykoit]

Thanks for the info! Congrats on your plane and good luck with your journey, I see you're in CO, I was born and raised there. Awesome place!