Towing Question

[Section 8]

I see a lot of people tow their foxes backwards.

What is the reason for this?

Thank you.

[Av8r_Sed]

Fits better on a modified boat trailer. Easier to load/ unload while elevating the tailwheel (reduces stress on the tailwheel). It also prevents wind from blowing in the exposed wing roots possibly loosening fabric.

[SkyPirate]

You dont see too many but the tow bars originally made for the kitfox aircraft that connects to the tail which is still part of newer kitfox , my 5 has the tow bar/ lower dorsalfin connections built into the airframe, if your not towing too far, its a slick set up

[bbryan]

Any way you can tow down the hiway with the towbar?

[SkyPirate]

the tow bar that I see used, I had asked the gentlemen how far they went with it,..they had said 5 miles one way and top speed was 45 mph on secondary roads,..
Personally I wouldn't tow it on an interstate with the tow bar set up,..I'd feel allot safer with a parameter frame trailer with plane on it,..

the gentlemen that I had spoke to had a model 3 with stock landing gear,..and the stock kit smooth tires,..

[DesertFox4]

As I recall the tow bar was for short distances and low speeds like 30 mph.
Highway speeds would not be a good idea. Also I'd be careful on any bumpy roads.

[Av8r_Sed]

If anyone wants one of those original tow bars, I have one collecting dust in my hangar. Too long and heavy to ship, so you'd need to be close to the Chicago area.

[Geowitz]

I tow every time I fly. To me it feels like a boat trailer. Only about 1.5 miles to the airstrip, but I have had it up to 50mph on a smooth straight away with no problems what so ever. However, I would NEVER take it beyond a rural road nor beyond that speed as there is a lot of down force exerted on the rear of the fuselage due to the weight and air deflection from the wings. When towing backwards the top of the wings deflect a lot of air.

[cgruby]

As I recall the tow bar was for short distances and low speeds like 30 mph.
Highway speeds would not be a good idea. Also I'd be careful on any bumpy roads.

I'm a new Kit Fox owner and have sustained some major damage due to towing and neglecting to secure one wing properly. I will, in the future, and suggest anyone else do the same, provide a redundant way to secure the wings during towing. I haven't worked it out yet, but it will probably be a highly visible lanyard or ratchet strap.

My left wing swung out while towing at about 50 mph and struck a road sign. The wing swung past the fully deployed position, possibly another 45 degrees. The cabin top sustained major damage. I am currently having a new Hat-Rack being built at Kit Fox, which I will replace all the damaged tubing. The left wing sustained major damage, and has been repaired. I am currently applying finishing tapes to the cover.

Hopefully it'll be flying again this spring.

Cheers,

[Norm]

If plane is pulled forward the tail wants to fly and you risk bending the back. This picture shows damage to a kitfox because of a 800mile tow.

[DesertFox4]

I tow every time I fly. To me it feels like a boat trailer. Only about 1.5 miles to the airstrip, but I have had it up to 50mph on a smooth straight away with no problems what so ever

Geowitz- you also have the wider stance Grove gear.:)
When the towbar was first offered that gear was not used yet. Bungie gear are much narrower.

[Oneninerwhiskey]

To All, I bent my KF4 same as Norm. I feel it was strapped down too tight at the aft towing attachment tubes on a too flexible trailer. Since then I secure at the main wheels and tail wheel only. No issues since, towing on highways up to 55mph. Towing plane backwards as you can see in my album.

Gale Walton

[SkyPirate]

19W looking at your photos, your trailer, if you modified the main wheel plates ( lowered them) and raised the tailwheel point, so your wing sat level, then moved your trailer axle back as far as you could, it would make your trailer allot more solid, with the way it is , it will bow the trailer frame rails, as light as it is ( the trailer) the weight of the plane is mostly on the trailer, it might even sway at higher speeds,, just from what i see id say your 90/10 weight distribution, should be 75/25, 75% trailer 25% hitch

[SkyPirate]

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/album.php?albumid=72&pictureid=1070

[Oneninerwhiskey]

Thanks for the comments, SkyPirate. You analysis seems right on target. I have pondered moving the axle, but too busy trying to find time to fly off the 40 hour restriction. For anyone wondering about VW powered Foxes, I will try to get some numbers posted soon if the weather permits. So far it has met my expectations and has been a blast to fly. Got 26 hours on her so far with only minor adjustments needed.

[kitfox2009]

Hi Guys
I find the best way to approach this issue of "tail weight" is to utilize the installed carry tubes (probably designed for a drawbar). I have some pics on my album showing the method I use. Seems to distribute the stress well.
Cheers
Don C-FOXK Vixen 912UL IVO IFA.

[SkyPirate]

Thanks 19W , i have built many trailers from boat to T&T, i use to build trailers for Raven not far from you in Jacksonville, also built custom parameter trailers for Chris Craft boats, etc even worked on the Nascar track dryer trailers :)

[SkyPirate]

Kitfox2009 thats a good set up for a trike, well done

[Norm]

I see a lot of people tow their foxes backwards.
What is the reason for this?

I sent a reply that the tubes on the back of my Kitfox bent due to towing nose first. I bought the plane in that state with the intent of a full rebuild. It is a model IV 1050 with the 582 (that may change) and yesterday I started some of the work. Just so you know the back is now straight and I did a bunch of component removal to get ready to re-cover. Fear not all this KitFox will live to fly another day.

[SkyPirate]

good for you Norm,..if I remember the plane correctly...where to upper longerons bent due to a strap over the tail ? I remember a red 1050 in Canada that was for sale on barn stormers due to transport damage,, just curious if this is the same plane

[Norm]

Same plane. I had talked to Randy about it befere it hit Barnstormers but had an Avid Speed wing and he wanted to fix it to fly. Things changed for us both about the right time, and I called him the night it hit barnstormers and made the deal. Randy got a new model IV with a 912 that I think he loves, I finished rebuilding my Buzzard and now have the time to devote to this project. More work than I remember but I am going to try to have her flying by the spring. (take that to mean this summer)

[SkyPirate]

did you guys swap gear? or did you get the stock gear with the purchase as well?

[Norm]

Got it just as it sat. No extra gear. I look forward to getting it in the air.

[SkyPirate]

ok I thought I see stock landing gear on the floor in first pic.. we look forward to seeing completed pictures :)

[Norm]

I think you see the motor mount. I had just pulled it off the plane as part of the dis-assembly to get ready for covering. I tried to pull the tailwheel assembly but the spring is stuck to the bolt that drops through the fuse in front of the tailpost. Don't want to force it but may need to try a 1.98 persuader (big hammer)
Norm

[SkyPirate]

push down on the tail spring..slide a flat piece of steel between spring and fuselage from the rear,,now lift tail spring at wheel,..repeat ,,thicker piece between tail and spring,,no hammering this way :)

[Norm]

push down on the tail spring..slide a flat piece of steel between spring and fuselage from the rear,,now lift tail spring at wheel,..repeat ,,thicker piece between tail and spring,,no hammering this way :)

Thanks for the tip. I tried it briefly but no luck yet. Will try again tomorrow.

[SkyPirate]

spray her down good,,let her set over night :)

[Micro Mong Bldr]

What material do you use for the rods through the fuselage that connect it to the towbar? Also the wing braces?
Thanks!

[Oneninerwhiskey]

What material do you use for the rods through the fuselage that connect it to the towbar? Also the wing braces?
Thanks!

Quarter inch cold rolled steel rod should fit. BUT, if the plane is secured too tightly, AND your trailer flexes, you WILL bend it again. Unless you have a solid heavy trailer secure the tail by the tail wheel only. This has been my experience FWIW. I had to repair the same damage on my KF after my third or fourth flight.